Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . . (1 Viewer)

[Michael Alden]

Wow, and I thought I took cheesy forty year old shows seriously! In the New York market they never even aired the whole run, yanking it off after a few months. Has it even aired anywhere in the US since the early 70s? I just want to get the show and if a huge legal battle occurs then it will wind up like Batman, in perpetual limbo. Who benefits then? Certainly not the DVD consumer and as with any 40 year old show, the longer it sits on the shelf, the more potential buyers either die off or get too old to care.

 

[John Cassidy]

Mark,

That's very true. This will probably give Tsuburaya the leverage it needs.

As I understand it, Brad Warner in TPC's LA office has been gathering info, so the next step will be to see what the Tokyo office does. If TPC wins against Chaiyo, it remains to be seen whether they and BCI will come to terms or not. We'll have to see . . .

Mike,

Yes, Ultraman has aired in other parts of the US, and enjoyed a better run there. It's too bad that to hear that NY dropped it.

BTW, Ultraman is actually the second of the Ultra Series (which has had about 18 basic TV show series so far). The first is Ultra Q (a B&W Twilight Zone-style show with giant monsters, aliens, ghosts; Sort of like The X-Files, only superior and more entertaining) and the third, 1967's Ultra Seven, is hailed as the absolute best of the Ultra Series by fans in Japan (and me!). This is the Japanese Star Trek. This had aired in Hawaii in English-dubbed form in 1975 (being the first show to be dubbed in English there), and in 1985, Cinar in Canada did another English dub (only more comical and tongue-in-cheek in nature, compared to the show's serious tone), which was broadcast on TNT in 1994 (and their contract ended in 1999). Of all the Ultra Series, these were the Big Three, as they were created by Eiji Tsuburaya! After his death in 1970, his company/family did the rest, starting with 1971's Return of Ultraman.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

I came across something interesting which was posted on the Monster Zero forum boards.

I found it very distressing that Chaiyo has rights to the series outside of Japan and that Tsuburaya Productions only had rights to the series within Japan. So, who created the Ultraman concept, Tsuburaya Productions or Chaiyo?

Thought I'd repost it here since the forum isn't viewable by guests:

 

[John Cassidy]

Tsuburaya, of course!

Chaiyo only worked with Tsuburaya on two films in 1974, and that was it. They had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of Ultraman (even though he tried to come up with a lie about that in the legal battle). Chaiyo's founder, Sompote Saengdeungchai was a film student living in Japan in 1962, and he visited Eiji Tsuburaya at Toho Studios during the production of KING KONG VS. GODZILLA. That was the only time they met. This was years before Sompote returned to Thailand and formed Chaiyo Productions. He had absolutely no involvement with Tsuburaya Productions (which was formed in 1963) until 1974, as mentioned above.

 

[Gord Lacey]

John, I'm still waiting for you to provide me with the phone number for Tsuburaya's LA office...

Gord

 

[John Cassidy]

Gord,

I'll look into it. I've contacted H!O. If I get any info, I'll send it to you the moment I do.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I thought you were in contact with the person that is in their LA office, which is how you knew all the information you posted.

Gord

 

[Michael Alden]

Seems pretty fishy, Gord, that these guys seem to have all of this detailed information on the rights but yet you've asked them four times to provide you with contact info and they haven't done it. So, if there is any truth to all of this, how hard would it be to provide a phone number?

 

[Jeffrey Nelson]

I doubt Tsuburaya would discuss the matter anyway...if they're in litigation, perhaps they're keeping mum for a purpose.

 

[John Cassidy]

You misread the info, Gord. The information I posted is from Henshin! Online (henshinonline.com), they have contacts with Tsuburaya.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I guess I did. Your posts made me think you had contact with them.

So who has actually spoken with Tsuburaya, and when did the conversation take place? Could it be everyone is basing their comments off old conversations? That's what's so frustrating about this; we have one company (BCI) which claims they have court documents saying the company licensed it from has the rights to the show, and we have tons of heresay from people online.

Gord

 

[John Cassidy]

And don't forget the Thai (English-language) media. They have heresay about this whole mess, too. (Including the whole lie Chaiyo made about Tsuburaya having "financial difficulties" in one of the articles after the last court trial.) Japanese press have told a whole different side of the story. I agree, this case is very, very complicated.

August Ragone and Bob Johnson, the main H!O staff, were probably the ones who talked to Tsuburaya (Johnson did the entire original article I posted over at ToonZone; John Pannozzi posted my ToonZone post here for me). Keith Aiken also has contacts with them as well (which is why I asked him for contact info).

 

[Bryan^H]

Anyone know who owns the rights for Spectreman, Space Giants, and Johnny Sokko? I'll pass on Ultrman, but if Spectreman is released on dvd, I will buy it for sure. I'd even buy a copy for a friend. That is what a nice guy I am.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

Could it be that Chaiyo has fooled everyone into thinking that they have the rights to worldwide distribution? Also, why is BCI rushing to release this property when they could have taken the time to find out the details from Tsuburaya.

Chaiyo and BCI seems to have fooled everyone and the longer this fight goes on with this release the more confused I'm getting. Like, how can a court in Thai, which Chaiyo is based, granted them the judgement.

It just seems kind oif suspicious to me and is casting dubious doubt on BCI's behalf.

 

[Gord Lacey]

Mark, the court documents are from the Japanese Supreme Court; it has nothing to do with Thailand.

I don't see any indication that BCI is trying to fool anyone. Here's the story from their point of view: they had someone contact Tsuburaya to inquire about US rights for the show but were told they don't own them. They found court documents from the Japanese Supreme Court indicating Chaiyo owned the property so they contacted Chaiyo and negotiated the rights to release the series in the US. Like I said, that's the story from them.

The story from the fans is completely different. Their story is that Chaiyo has stolen the property from Tsuburaya and doesn't have the rights to it anywhere other than Thailand.

This whole thing is messy, and I think a lot of it has to do with bad information floating around, and no one knowing all the facts. Until proven otherwise I'm siding with BCI. They seem to be able to provide a lot more information on the situation, and they're working on translating the Japanese court documents showing that Chaiyo owns the rights to the show in the US. BCI is not going to try and release something that they don't have rights for; there's too much at stake for the company.

Whatever the case may be, Ultraman will be a failure when it hits DVD. Even if it's proven that Chaiyo owns the rights to the series in the US and granted BCI a proper license the fans won't buy it because of all the misinformation that's been spread.

Gord

 

[Mark Talmadge]

Gord, thanks for invaluable input. IN this case, simple argumentative heresay has replaced the factual evidence in this story then. I honestly think that the litigation between Tsuburaya and Chaiyo and the resulting widespread panic introduced by those angry over the fact may end up dooming this series before it's even released.

I would rather see Tsuburaya and Chaiyo come to some sort of agreement and co-produce the release for distribution in the United States. Also, since Tsuburaya holds the original DAT recording of the English dub this is going to hurt any potential success for the release of these sets. What's going to happen is that fans are going to end up seeking unauthorized copies of the original series and that's the real crime. There are quite a few fans who do download the material and while I deal mostly in Japanese anime and have downloaded the original fansub versions of the anime I do support the anime industry here in the United States.

I have downloaded over 50 different anime episodes and while I no longer own those donwloads (ended up deleting them once they became license by an anime studio here in the United States). I've supported the industry as I own over 200 individual anime DVD's which I've paid $20 on average for each DVD. This is why I don't have a problem spending $20 on anime DVD's but debate the price over Hollywood produced entertainment.

At any rate, BCI will end up selling some copies of their Ultraman release but they are risking an eventual in loss revenue for the Ultraman release due to the legions of fans who know the story behind this release.

I wonder what Gord and Dave's attitude are toward this whole mess and if they have any plans on reviewing the release or purchasing the sets.

Please bear in mind that I don't advocate downloading and while it is technically againast the law the vast majority of anime studios in Japan don't prevent anime fans from creating the fansubs as it gives them a much a larger worldwide fanbase and helps promote their anime shows and has assisted some companies such as ADV Films in determining which shows they license to release. 98% of all anime fansubs are removed from websites when the series becomes licensed.

 

[John Cassidy]

This is the same deal with tokusatsu fans, that is, if the official product is worth buying. Tokusatsu fans aren't stupid. They've seen screenshots of the R2 Ultraman DVDs (some of them even HAVE the DVDs themselves).

 

[Jeffrey Nelson]

I'll buy it, just to have it in case it never comes out in a better version. And if it later gets released from better materials direct from Tsuburaya, then I'll buy it again, and give my old set away. Ultraman is worth it.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

I can see why BCI would want to release the series but why rush it? And, I'm curious how a Japanese court would side with Chaiyo when it's Tsuburaya created it. You'd think a Japanese court would rule for the company who created the series and just how in God's name did Chaiyo get worldwide distribution rights for everything Ultraman outside Japan? There's something very fishy about that mess.

 

[John Cassidy]

OK, to clarify what H!O was writing about, the center of the case here is a forged document with a fake hanko (Japanese signature stamp) by the late Noboru Tsuburaya. It was because of the hanko that the Japanese and Thai courts thought the document was legal and binding (despite the forged document itself containing many errors), and the hanko can easily be forged, but the document does not contain Noboru's hand-written signature, so the Tokyo courts let Chaiyo off only somewhat easy, even though they rejected their other claims. Now, if the case was taken to the US, Chaiyo would lose, flat out. The whole hanko thing would never fly in a US court.

The verdict: Tsuburaya, of course, keeps the copyright to Ultraman, and has the rights to the characters and shows (which, consequently, they have the international rights to). Chaiyo's claim to everything Ultraman outside Japanese territories was rejected by the court. Their claim as being the creators of Ultraman has been dismissed also. They are forbidden from making any new shows, movies and characters (which they are trying to do anyway), and their claim to the entire Tsuburaya catalogue (including their non-Ultraman shows) was also rejected. However, the Tokyo court awarded him the rights to the first 6 Ultra Series and Jumborg Ace (another Tsuburaya superhero series) in regards to broadcast/home video rights in Thailand, and supporting merchandise (toys, etc.) outside Japan. That's it. However, even if Tsuburaya could market the shows here, Chaiyo could try to sabotage everything by suing the US distributor, which could back out. That's what Tsuburaya's afraid of. And that's why, until Tsuburaya finally takes out Chaiyo in court, we will not see a legit release of Ultraman or the rest of the Ultra Series here.

BTW, this is nothing like the whole case with the 1966 Batman series. Neither 20th Century Fox nor DC Comics had any ulterior motives on each other. But I would like to see that show on DVD.