To Sub or Not to Sub - That is the question...

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Keith E F, May 11, 2004.

  1. Keith E F

    Keith E F Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    First post - and complete noob, so forgive me...

    I have up to $3K to spend 5 speakers. I say five because my wife *really* doesn't want a stand alone "black box" in great room and the two in-wall rear centers are already a done deal... actually, she's not that thrilled about towers on either side of the TV...

    So, I would really like to get two towers that put out some bass when I am watching movies - my mix will be 50/50.

    I am leaning towards Paradigm at this time - but I need to know if I am making a mistake buying speakers that have the bass units built in, ala the Studio 100s or even something like Cambridge SW Newton T500 (yea, I know... I know...)

    So sell me one way or the other - I want to do this right the first time, or at least the best I can do w/ my budget.

    Thanks in advance
    Keith
     
  2. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personally, I'd find a way to keep the subwoofer/bass production away from the tower speakers. Use the towers to handle bass down to 80 or 60Hz, then let the subwoofer take over from there. Expecting some tower speakers to be able to produce bass similiar to that of a subwoofer, is asking quite a bit.

    I'd look for ways in which you could conceal a subwoofer in your area so that it's possible to go forward with purchasing one. Also, you could then go with a good set of bookshelf speakers and used on-wall brackets for mounting or some decorative stands to place them on. This should keep your area nice and neat and plase your wife's desire for a neat room, too.

    I once lived through what you are facing right now. As a compromise, I used in-wall speakers installed in on-wall MDF cabinets to enhance the sound and make them sound the way speakers are intended to sound. I was able to pait the units to match our walls. I then only ohad one sub which was concealed under the edge of my desk. This worked fine for about 3 years.

    However, I wanted more. A few months back, I built two shiva-based subs and was less transparent in my methods of hiding them by selecting spots tha were good at concealing. I then desired new front speakers. I was honest with my wife and indicated that the on-wall/in-wall speakers were just a "stepping" stone and they've outlived their useful life. When I presented my choices, my wife didn't care for the black ash cabinets, but liked the idea of those with cherry veners.

    I was then able to convince my wife how important audio and movies were as a hobby in my life. My wife was the in agreement with my speakers that I desired to purchase.

    I installed the speakers a few weeks back and over-all, my wife is pleased with what I selected.

    Trust me, life is too short to live without some good gear. Make sacrifices if you have to on a temporary basis. However, don't accept those temporary choices as being permanent. Heck, I know of plenty of people who have flawless living rooms, but they rarely get used - heck my home is such an example. Also, my wife understood that our family room was one in which we used to enjoy movies and relax, so it was easier convincing her that I needed 40" tower speakers in there as opposed to our living room.
     
  3. Jason Brent

    Jason Brent Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    0
    Get a stand alone sub.
     
  4. Chris A H

    Chris A H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd get a stand alone sub also. If you ever decided to change out your mains you have to toss the subs out as well. If they are seperate you have more choices in combining the best possible speakers with the best possible sub.

    I had WAF issues as well, and convinced her that the sub could be a piece of furniture as well as a sub. I now have a SVS PB1-ISD in the tan-granite color that works wonderfully in the room's decor and sits next to my couch as an end table. With some of the nicer wood finishes you might find something to please her.
     
  5. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stand alone sub. The problem with "integrated subs", is that then you have uncontrollable constructive and destructive interference around the room due to the two low freq generators. The results is nasty peaks and valleys in bass response around the room. Not flat freq response (or even close). Not that two stand alone subs aren't a bad thing, but the best place for a single sub, or 2 subs, is extremely different than for towers.

    Paradigm Studio 100's? They don't have integrated subs, do they? Good speakers. Review over at Stereophile.com somewhere.
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,576
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    Separate sub.
     
  7. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Go with a separate sub. Take a look at the SVS PB-1+. You can have it stained in different finishes and turn it in to a great looking end table which your wife may approve of.
     
  8. Keith E F

    Keith E F Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the input guys - that is pretty much what I figured the general response was going to be after searching through the archives for a few days...


    Kevin B - No, the Paradigm Studio 100's do not have a integrated sub, my compare and contrast in this case would be the Monitor 90Ps. So the Monitor 90Ps and no sub or the Studio 100s and a sub...

    I have also listened to the CSW T500s and while they seemed to do really well with HT, I wasn't too crazy about music only.

    Funny thing about the internet and forums in general - they always end up costing me more money! haha


    Cheers Guys,
    Keith
     
  9. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,589
    Likes Received:
    0

    Actually, quite the opposite is true. While it appears you might be laying out more money up front, it is actually a cost savings. Had you gone ahead with a purchase without any input, you might have been very unhappy with the sound - then, you would have sold off what your purchased at a loss and purchased the gear you should have gotten from the beginning.

    See, it's actually a cost savings in the end. [​IMG]
     
  10. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    0

    Where do I sign up for "upgradeitis" anonymous? [​IMG]
     
  11. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    0


    1- You have a "difficult" wife.
    2- No HT is complete without a separate sub.
    3- If she has her way you'll face more dilemmas in the future.
    4- I would hate to be in your shoes.

    [rant]GOOD LUCK![/rant]
     
  12. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would and infinite baffle sub be possible? All you need is to cut a hole in the wall or ceiling and put some covering and everybody would be happy. There would be no big box in the room, and you would get incredible bass. Do a search on the cult of the infinitely baffled.
     
  13. Keith E F

    Keith E F Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey John:

    1) Hardly - hahahaahaha
    2) OK, that's the reason for the question
    3) Doubtful
    4) You don't know a thing about me or my shoes!

    I am still laughing over this one. Thanks for the help... I think...

    But you'll have to forgive me if I don't get my panties in a buch over not being able to have the "ideal" sub in the "ideal" position in our great room... hahahahaha [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Keith
     
  14. Johnny_M

    Johnny_M Second Unit

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    0
    tell your wife your getting a sub, don't let her tell you what to do!!

    ps, a sub is a beautiful thing, for the love of everything holy in this world, get the boom boom box!


    Johnny
     
  15. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Seriously, in the process of you getting the sub that *you* want, get her a rock. Whenever I plan on an unhideable HT purchase, I always get my wife some jewelry or something. She's happy, I'm happy, we're both happy. [​IMG]
     
  16. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,589
    Likes Received:
    0

    Sadly, we only have one life on this earth. Sorry, I don't believe in reincarnation. I find it sad that we have to have a room so "preserved" that we can't enjoy it with a few toys.
     
  17. Keith E F

    Keith E F Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wayne -

    Ah, it's not that sad at all - certain things are a compromise others are not. I, like most of you (I am sure) have other, possibly more expensive hobbies than A/V.

    I simply want a solid set-up; and I lurked here for a while and searched and searched the archives - I almost bit on a nice deal from CSW, but figured I should ask some of the experts first because the in speaker sub didn't seem ideal to me.

    I am by nature, a car guy (sorry [​IMG]) - you guys are A/V gurus; we all have our things...

    So in the midst of relocating, building a new house, work (I travel globally) and working on my other toys - getting the most for my money is all I am after - you guys helped me make the decision.

    And I do appreciate the opinions and the information that you hard core guys have posted here, the archives have helped quite a bit.

    Cheers,
    KEF
     

Share This Page