The Official Star Trek Music Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Nelson Au]

Regarding the distortion in The Doomsday Machine. I wasn't sure I could find it either, but when I heard it, it occurred to me the distortion occurs at the moment the score is heard when Spock says to Kirk that the planet killer is pursuing us then fades to commercial. I'd be curious if anyone can confirm that or agrees?

 

[Weir36betty]

What are your favorite segments of music in Trek?http://www.hometheaterforum.com/content/type/61/id/173704/

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson, Which track or tracks on the Soundtrack Collection (season, disc, and track number) corresponds to the distortion heard in The Doomsday Machine? I can listen to it today, but I would have a difficult time tracking it down.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Regarding the distortion in The Doomsday Machine. I wasn't sure I could find it either, but when I heard it, it occurred to me the distortion occurs at the moment the score is heard when Spock says to Kirk that the planet killer is pursuing us then fades to commercial. I'd be curious if anyone can confirm that or agrees?

Yes that's when it is most obvious. Scott, I don't have the tracks in front of me to confirm which one it is. I'm starting disc 2 now. Have some thoughts formulating about the first two discs but need another listen before I post anything. It's making for great commutes to work I must say. I really do like the Gary Mitchell speed reading music cue for some odd reason.

 

[Ockeghem]

I really do like the Gary Mitchell speed reading music cue for some odd reason.

Lou, I'm having a listen now to "The Patient/Speedy Reader" M23/M24 (Alexander Courage) (Where No Man Has Gone Before) (Season One, disc 1, track 22). The pulsating opening to this track has for years reminded me of some stock music from Dark Shadows (original series). When I hear the opening music, I immediately think of the section in The Return Of the Archons when Kirk and company are being held in the cell before the second(?) return of Landru's goon squad.

 

[Nelson Au]

Scott, the track from Doomsday Machine is on Disc 2 of Season 2, or disc 7. It is track 19 called "What is a Doomsday Machine/The Planet Killer" and the distortion occurs during the final sustained note.

 

[Ockeghem]

Scott, the track from Doomsday Machine is on Disc 2 of Season 2, or disc 7. It is track 19 called "What is a Doomsday Machine/The Planet Killer" and the distortion occurs during the final sustained note.

Nelson, Thank you. I'm listening to it now. This track is 2:03 in length. The last concensus is comprised of several notes, and together they form a tone cluster that is quite dissonant. I didn't hear very much (if any) distortion per se. The trombones and other brass instruments are very shrill at this point, and the level of dissonance is very high. That being said, it should be noted that I am listening to it on my work PC as opposed to my home system. I'll have a better listen to it from home soon. Thank you again for the disc and the track listing.

 

[bryan4999]

I must be one of the truly lucky ones regarding "City On The Edge Of Forever" and music replacement - I've never heard it with replaced music, and I've owned a couple of different iterations of it on VHS. Way back when VHS was a new thing (1978-79), I was privileged to own one of those miraculous machines. And one of the very first things releases to the new rental market was 10 episodes of the STAR TREK series, all mastered from 35mm prints by Paramount, complete episodes, no syndication cuts, - it was all there. Everything but the NBC peacock! These were available from rental houses that were springing up, and a new purpose was found for those Fotomat drive-through kiosks that sprang up in suburban shopping centers. They got into the business of renting VHS movies. You'd call a number from a printed catalog, order your tape, and pick it up the next day - in some cases the same day. Fotomat also issued the same 10 STAR TREK episodes, re-badged with the Fotomat logo both on the tape and the video itself. "City On The Edge Of Forever" was of course one of the chosen 10 episodes that you could rent, and after a few years, Fotomat got out of the video rental business and sold off their tapes. I bought one - one that had "City On The Edge Of Forever" on it, and the music was intact. "Good Night Sweetheart" was there in all its glory. In the mid '80s, Paramount began to sell ALL of the episodes of STAR TREK on VHS, releasing 10 at a time, all at around $15 list price per episode. So we big fans would plunk down our 100 - 150 dollars for our 10-episode fix. Since I'd gotten 10 episodes from Paramount's earlier excursion into home video, I skipped those on this second go-round. At least initially. After seeing how much better the new releases looked compared to the older mastering, I eventually sprang for the older 10 episodes all over again, as finances permitted. And this is the key part of this long story: the VHS I purchased with just "City On The Edge Of Forever" from that '80s batch never had any replaced music. It always had the full music score including the "Good Night Sweetheart" bits. It was sometime later that I was reading somewhere - a book or magazine I suppose, as there was no Internet to speak of - and learned of this music replacement business. I scoured my two copies looking for it - in vain - just to experience the horrors I was reading about. But I never found it.  I don't think I ever owned it on LaserDisc, but jumped to the DVD season sets when they came out. (I owned a few of those 2-per-disc DVDs, but not many). And by then everyone was relieved to hear the "Good Night Sweetheart" bits restored, but it all sounded the same to me. I never got to experience the replaced music. Is there a place where someone's preserved the quote-unquote awful replacement music? I'd like to sample it once at least. Harry

I have pulled out my laserdisc of "City" and captured the scenes with replaced music. You can view it on youtube at this link (if the link does not work for some reason, you can copy it and paste it in your browser). Disclaimer on the laserdisc cover:

 

[Ockeghem]

I have pulled out my laserdisc of "City" and captured the scenes with replaced music. You can view it on youtube at this link (if the link does not work for some reason, you can copy it and paste it in your browser). Disclaimer on the laserdisc cover:

Bryan, Thank you! That is quite interesting. I honestly can't recall whether or not I've ever heard this music before. Fascinating. I'm going to check all of my VHS copies of The City On the Edge Of Forever tonight to see if there are any disclaimers on any of them.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks for the effort Bryan. Just as bad as I remember it! One thing that I am surprised by in listening to the City tracks is how subtle the basic melody of Goodnight Sweetheart was woven into some of the tracks or simply used in a slower tempo. It's very clear to me now. That explains why those particular bits were removed in addition to Goodnight Sweetheart. I never could exactly understand why before because its I never heard the melody before in those parts of the score.

 

[bryan4999]

Thanks for the effort Bryan. Just as bad as I remember it! One thing that I am surprised by in listening to the City tracks is how subtle the basic melody of Goodnight Sweetheart was woven into some of the tracks or simply used in a slower tempo. It's very clear to me now. That explains why those particular bits were removed in addition to Goodnight Sweetheart. I never could exactly understand why before because its I never heard the melody before in those parts of the score.

Yes, but listen carefully to the music just after Edith confronts Spock about the tools. It sounds like a hint of "Goodnight, Sweetheart" remains in there. Maybe my ears are playing tricks, or maybe it wasn't enough of a quote to get the copyright police riled up.

 

[KPmusmag]

Thanks for the effort Bryan. Just as bad as I remember it! One thing that I am surprised by in listening to the City tracks is how subtle the basic melody of Goodnight Sweetheart was woven into some of the tracks or simply used in a slower tempo. It's very clear to me now. That explains why those particular bits were removed in addition to Goodnight Sweetheart. I never could exactly understand why before because its I never heard the melody before in those parts of the score.

As I said in an earlier post, I was devastated when I bought that laserdisc 20-something years ago and I discovered it had replaced music. However, 20 years and later versions with the correct music have dulled the pain a bit. Although I agree that the replacement music is rather colorless, I have to give a little bit of credit to the person who did the replacement. Whether it was a musician or music editor, he or she obviously put in some thought and tried to at least match the intent of the original music. Please don't jump on me, I absolutely don't condone it, but now that my anger has subsided, I can hear that some effort was put into it. Can you imagine being the person assigned to do that? "Here's a black Sharpie, kid, draw a mustache on the Mona Lisa".

 

[bryan4999]

As I said in an earlier post, I was devastated when I bought that laserdisc 20-something years ago and I discovered it had replaced music. However, 20 years and later versions with the correct music have dulled the pain a bit. Although I agree that the replacement music is rather colorless, I have to give a little bit of credit to the person who did the replacement. Whether it was a musician or music editor, he or she obviously put in some thought and tried to at least match the intent of the original music. Please don't jump on me, I absolutely don't condone it, but now that my anger has subsided, I can hear that some effort was put into it. Can you imagine being the person assigned to do that? "Here's a black Sharpie, kid, draw a mustache on the Mona Lisa".

Well, what I will say is that I watched the entire episode on laserdisc, and even with the replaced music and the awful video quality, the story is so good that I was caught up in it regardless and had tears at the end like I always do when I watch this episode. The truth is, I don't watch it too often, even though it is my favorite, because I want it to be a special, rare experience every time. Does that sounds nuts?

 

[Ockeghem]

Bryan, No, that doesn't sound odd at all. And BTW, the shot right after Edith is killed, and we are gradually 'transported' from 1930s earth back to Kirk's current time in the 23rd century (this is the shot where we see the planet earth nearly filling the screen as the camera zooms in on it slowly) is one of the most memorable moments in all of TOS for me.

 

[bryan4999]

I don't mean to get off thread here, but another terrible music substitution by Paramount was the removal of "What'll I Do?" by Irving Berlin from the Robert Redford "The Great Gatsby". That song was really interwoven into the score by Nelson Riddle, who did great arrangements for that film. I simply can't watch that DVD. The difference between City and Gatsby is that Gatsby has never been rectified on home video, to my knowledge.

 

[Nelson Au]

I limit my viewings of City for the same reason, so the impact is still there.

 

[FanCollector]

Have you guys noticed that all of the composers did their own orchestrations for the most part except for Fred Steiner? Gus Levene did almost all of Steiner's orchestrations, apart from City on the Edge and some of Mirror, Mirror. Not sure what that distinction signifies, but I've noticed it. Was Steiner not as comfortable doing orchestrations? Or was he just busier?

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee, That's an interesting observation (and a good question) about Steiner. I'm guessing he did piano reductions and then handed them off to Levene for the orchestrations, but I honestly don't know if that occurred. If it were solely a matter of parts being written out, I could easily see that work being handed off to someone else as these take an inordinate amount of time to accomplish, and quite frankly it is not a fun thing to do. But transcribing the parts is quite different than not penning your own orchestrations.

 

[FanCollector]

All of the sessions have various "copyists" credited separately from the orchestrators. Lukas Kendall on the FSM board suggested that Steiner may have just wanted to concentrate more on the composition and so, where possible, chose to have Levene do the orchestrations. Given the effectiveness of the City recordings, it certainly doesn't seem like Steiner was unable to do the orchestrating successfully on his own when he needed or wanted to do so.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee, What is the FSM Board? I'm trying to get the acronym (and it's probably very obvious), but I'm not succeeding. Thanks.