The future of satellite radio? (1 Viewer)

[Tim Holyoke]

I've just started looking at satellite radio, so I don't know much about it. But I was wondering, for you with lots of experience and knowledge about it, where do you see it 1, 3, 5, 10 years from now? I ask because I am considering investing in Sirius or XM.

From the little I have looked into it, I think they will definitely both be around for years to come. I think the market has more than enough customers for 2 or more players. But I wonder how profitable they will be? How many costs are involved from their end? Will XM and Sirius cut prices to try and get more customers? What do you think about the future of satellite radio?

Tim

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Tim,

As long as these companies can keep their
heads above water, satellite radio is here
to stay.

The concept is a no-brainer. People have
grown to hate FM radio. Satellite radio offers
about 100 different music channels that cater
to an individual's taste.

Pending on how installed, the sound quality is
better than FM radio, very close to CD quality.

Satellite radio is now being made available
through most major auto manufacturers. This means
that people buying new cars will already have
XM or SIRIUS installed in their vehicle with the
option of activating it for a small monthly charge.

Advertising for XM and SIRIUS products are at
an all-time high. Open any electronic circular
and you'll see many different kinds of units
offered for both home and auto.

The BIG question is which one should you invest in?

Well, I invested in XM Radio. I have heard Sirius.
and definitely feel XM has an edge as far as
content is concerned. I also like the fact that
XM carries CINEMAGIC, a channel that plays non-stop
movie soundtracks.

The problem as of late is that XM has beefed up
their commercial play on certain stations,
particularly the ones I listen to, the 70s and 80s.
These commercials at first were no big deal. But
listen to the channel all day long like I do and
you'll hear the same tired commercials playing
every 15-20 minutes.

Sirius has no commercials. However, I didn't care
for their stations as much as XM. XM has a lot
more personality to it. I like the DJs better and
I like the way they really make their decades
channels sound like you are back in the day.

XM has a much larger subscriber base than Sirius.
However, I fear that unless XM Radio gets rid of
their commercials, people are going to pick Sirius.
Let's face it -- nobody wants to hear commercials
on a music service they are paying for -- expecially
if there is an option not to receive them.

At this point, I would recommend XM. It's the
"grandaddy" of satellite radio. It's $3 cheaper
per month than Sirius, and if you add a second
unit to your auto or home, the additional cost is
only $6 more monthly. In the long run, XM Radio
is cheaper (unless there have been recent price
revisions).

Some say that Sirius can't survive without
adding commercials. Who knows if they ever will
have to. Some say XM Radio will bite the dust
if they continue to add commercial play. That
could very well be the case.

It's a tough decision, but I give XM radio the
edge here.

Let us know how you did.

 

[David-S]

(I'm not a stocks person, I just read some of the info because it's one of the best ways of learning about trends)...

From what i've heard, both companies need between 2-4 million people to break even, and begin making a profit (XM is actually the higher one, because it has a larger debt at the moment)...

www.siriusbackstage.com has an investor's section, where you can learn more about the financial side of things...

But just for comparison, satellite radio has the quickest take-up of ANY commercial media (DVD, VHS, etc) yet... and that was with only 1 company for the first 9 months (which, along with their OEM car subscribers, are the major reasons for the current larger market share... from what i've heard XM and Sirius are actually running about equal in retail purchases recently...)

ps: Sirius also offers a 6.99 for 2nd-4th subscriptions

You also get 1 month free if you sign up for a full year (not sure if that's on the multiple subscriptions or not)

 

[Ronn.W]

ps: Sirius also offers a 6.99 for 2nd-4th subscriptions

XM offers 6.99 for 2nd-5th radios.

http://www.xmradio.com/service_subsc...bscription.jsp

 

[Tim Holyoke]

OK, thanks for the help guys. I originally wasn't even planning on getting one for myself, just investing in the company . However, I was just looking through the Circuit City add, and they have a deal on Sirius setups that seems like a good deal to me. http://weeklyad.circuitcity.com/circ...9&clicksrc=01& . Maybe I'm reading it wrong (probably), but from what I could figure out, it's $100 for the receiver, and $50 for each home or car kit, plus you get a $50 mail-in rebate if you buy 2 kits? So basically you buy 1, get 1 free kit? If anybody can explain this for me, I'd really appreciate it . Thanks a lot.

Tim

 

[Tim Holyoke]

Here's the same deal, on the Sirius site: http://www.sirius.com/servlet/Conten...=1066068006527 . I guess now I have to figure out what receiver and kits to get. I have no idea what to look for, it looks like for receivers it's either Kenwood or Audiovox? As for the docking kits...I've not a clue. Any help is greatly appreciated, and if I'm overlooking a FAQ on this site, sorry, please point me to it. Thanks a lot.

 

[Joshua Clinard]

Definatley go with the AudioVox PNP 2. Make sure to get the second one. If the store doesn't have it in yet, you may have to wait a few days. The PNP 2 fixes the problems that the PNP 1 had. The display is also larger. The PNP 1 is good, but the PNP 2 is an improvement in many ways. I wish I had gotten that one instead of the Here2Anywhere. They are both nice units though, so if anyone is considering the H2A, because they like the size or shape, then go for it. It performs equeally well.

 

[Tim Holyoke]

Thanks.
1) So all I need to get setup is the receiver http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...rk_0&oid=81412 and a docking kit?
2) So the antenna is with the docking kit?
3) What are my options for the docking kits, it looks to me like either the SIR-CK1 or SIR-CK2 for the Audiovox receivers?
4) How much space do they take up or where do most people put them?
5) How easy would it be to take the docking kit out and put it in another vehicle?
6) If I have a docking kit at home and in my car, I can use the same receiver with both?

Thanks a lot

 

[DennisF]

In terms of performance, both companies have about the same nominal market cap at $2.3B.

Both have OEM deals with auto-makers. GM (XM) started installing their sat.radio offerings with the 2003 model. Word is that about half of the "1,000,000" XM subscriptions sold were OEM trial subs. No idea how many of those stuck.

Ford and DC (Sirius) haven't started their OEM installs yet so you don't see those numbers in the subscription base.

Personally I prefer Sirius as a service.

Financially, I think Sirius has more upside. But you have to realize that both of these services are risky in their dependence on space. Lose a satellite and you have a huge hit on the bottom line. I wouldn't expect regular profitability in the first 5 years. But I also think they're here to stay.

 

[David-S]

It also includes a roof mount antenna, cigarette lighter power adapter and mounting bracket.

3)Sirck1 has a built in FM modulator, Sirck2 does not (both appear to still have RCA outputs)
4) beats me
5) never really seen one in person, beats me
6) yes, that's the whole point

 

[Chris]

I will say this as an investor, and not a user.. Sirius, financially, has a better upside at the moment. XM's pre-installation base has already been figured into the stock value, whereas Sirius expects to get a "jump" next year as Ford will roll out expeditions and other SUVs, including all Lincoln models, with Sirius. Those aren't cumed in, so Sirius will have better "blockbuster" news next year, and like it or not, a lot of investors invest irrationally about "current news of the moment" and Sirius has more of those kind of announcements next year then XM.

Sirius also has one other advantage: their North American scale ability is better; Sirius works in farther places (like Jamaica, about 200M into Mexico & Canada) whereas XM does not. This opens them up to a wider potential user base, and is something XM is not currently considering an expansion to.

 

[Joshua Clinard]

Ron,

I know you are a huge XM Fan. And I'm sure you know I'm a huge Sirius fan. But I am more than that. I am a Satellite Radio fan. I want both companies to succeed, because FM radio sucks big time. Each company has it's own set of strengths and weaknesses. I like the fact that Sirius is hits based, and commercial free. I also like their hardware! But I like some of the channels that XM has, such as Cinemagic, and I also like the fact that they dig a little bit deeper on some of their channels. I don't think I would like that on all of them though. I also think I would like the fact that you can call in requests. If I had the money, I would get XM in addition to my Sirius account. Then I would have more variety. And I am sure I could find several other channels I like on XM in addition to the ones I already know of.

I read some of your recent posts at XMFan.com mentioning that you were considering switching to Sirius, because of your frustration with the commercial load on your favorite XM stations. I would urge you not to switch, but to get both. If you don't want to pay for two services, then you could even switch for just a little while, and then switch back. I know people that do that.

I would also urge you to join the community at Siriusbackstage.com. The Backstage seems to be more friendly than XMFan is, in general. At XMFan, most people who post anything favorable about Sirius will get a rude reply, even by the moderators. At Siriusbackstage, many of the regulars, including the moderators, will reccomend both services to anyone who isn't completly satisfied with Sirius, or to anyone who just wants more variety, and many of them have both services themselves. I am satisfied with Sirius myself, but I sure wouldn't mind having some more variety. 200 channels/streams would be awesome. So I encourage you to consider getting a Sirius account in ADDITION to your XM account.


Sirius has good deals on hardware too. Right now you can get thier brand new AudioVox Satellite Radio Shuttle PNP 2 for 74.99 if you purchase it from Circuit City. 74 bucks is the web price. Check my recent reply to the previous thread if you want to go this route. They will also release a boom box that the PNP will plug into.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Joshua,

Thanks for this information.

I am a HUGE XM fan. I also have an open mind
towards SIRIUS -- especially since I am fed up
with the commercials that XM is playing these
days.

I'm just not sure I want to have an additional
monthly subscription on top of my XM Radio
subscription on two units.

 

[BenK]

I had XM radio awhile back. I liked it initially but grew tired of the commercials and sound quality to me was just ok. I could hear the compression in alot of the channels which I didnt like.

A few weeks ago I tried Sirius and like it alot better. Sound quality to me is clearer and more dynamic. Best of all with no commercials. Plus Sirius has three satellites compared to I believe XM's one which I'm sure helps.

Either way I hope they're both around for awhile improving upon each other. I'm also hoping other companies join in cutting costs and making improvements. But I definitely think the format is here to stay.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Can anyone else actually confirm that Sirius
radio provides better sound quality than XM?

 

[David-S]

I've never done a head-to-head (I only have Sirius), but Sirius has noticeably improved its SQ recently (they've apparently been codec tweaking)...

There are quite a few people on siriusbackstage who feel sirius has the edge, especially in the highs (XM, IIRC, caps at ~15 kHz, while sirius doesn't)

 

[David Broome]

Unfortunately, the 'quality' issue is far to subjective to give a definitive answer. For every person who has done a head-to-head and liked Sirius better, there is a person who has done a head-to-head and liked XM better. I fall in the XM camp...

 

[DennisF]

I keep hearing that there is an issue with Sirius sound quality. There isn't. Most of the time Sirius SQ is very good.

Recently it has been variable: some of the time fantastic like a good CD on a good system; other times you get odd compression effects. What is causing the variations is the Sirius engineers playing with the digital codecs. They are getting ready for a major upgrade and doing other things that aren't publicly acknowledged.

Comparing sound quality between the two services is impossible right now because there is no fixed SQ level(s) to compare. XM makes improvements occasionally; Sirius is doing a lot of it right now. In general they're about equal, and over the long term will remain so.

Best ask how the services compare to other sources. In general, better then FM, not quite as good as CD (although in an auto environment that difference is hard to appreciate).

 

[Chris]

Sirius really does good work with their bandwidth (IMHO) some channels get compressed down, and you can tell (sports, news, etc.) which is OK by me I like ESPNRadio all the same.. and some channels always come through sounding fantastic (like the 80s, my wife's station) in some cases, Sirius is as good or rivals any CD we can put in the deck.

 

[Jed M]

I would also urge you to join the community at Siriusbackstage.com. The Backstage seems to be more friendly than XMFan is, in general. At XMFan, most people who post anything favorable about Sirius will get a rude reply, even by the moderators. At Siriusbackstage, many of the regulars, including the moderators, will reccomend both services to anyone who isn't completly satisfied with Sirius, or to anyone who just wants more variety, and many of them have both services themselves.

I think its a matter of perspective. Any time you get into format war forums its going to be ugly if you represent the other side. I've noticed that both sides are friendly and eager to help when someone is looking for advice, but if at all critical, it usually gets defensive and generally rude on both forums. For example, I was recently reading a thread on sirius backstage (trying to figure out if they were going to add new sports talk channels) where a guy was upset that they put a sirius promo over his news show (not during a break) and people started flaming him, and I think it was you that called him a liar. I would consider that the same hospitality you would expect at the XMfan site.