Subwoofer Power Question (1 Viewer)

[Mark Abrams]

My current subwoofer, which is an older Paradigm 12" front firing model (have no idea as to the wattage - I've had it for decades, literally), has, I think, bit the dust. I'm getting a rattling sound from it when it's in operation, so I'm guessing something tore or separated in it. It sounded great while it was operating properly. My receiver is a cheap Sony 95 watt per channel with a powered sub output - if I buy a new subwoofer, say 12" also, how much power should it have? I'm thinking of getting a down-firing sub this time, as I will have the sub placed against a wall. I just need some input on how many watts I can (should) have in the subwoofer? I'm still kind of a novice at all of this, so any input would be appreciated.

 

[Mark Abrams]

I've been told by Crutchfield that I should get a Definitive Technology ProSub 800 - anyone agree with this? How will this compare with the older Paradigm 12" front firing one?

 

[Robert_J]

Wattage ratings on subs are basically useless. That's like saying a 500hp car and 500hp truck will have the same performance.

Bass is about moving air and an 8" driver will rarely outperform even a decent 12" driver.

What is your exact Paradigm model? Sometimes the foam surround will rot but the repair takes about 24 hours and costs about $20 at most. I refoamed four 15" subs from 1991 for $6 each.

 

[Jason Charlton]

I'm thinking of getting a down-firing sub this time, as I will have the sub placed against a wall.

While we're dispelling myths...

Firing direction has no impact on a subwoofer's performance*. Placement within a room however, can have a huge impact on performance (at least as perceived at various locations within the room). For this reason, whenever possible it's better to have some placement flexibility before you choose your subwoofer so that you can determine the best place for the sub to be positioned. There are lots of posts that describe the pros and cons of sub placement (corner vs. center of a wall) and lots of info on using the "sub crawl" method to determine the optimal placement for your room.

* From what I understand, this is true at lower frequencies (80-90Hz and lower), which is all that your sub should be doing, anyway. If you have your crossover set high (120Hz, for instance) then you might notice some differences with those higher frequencies, but again, that should not be the case if you have a properly set up system.

 

[Mark Abrams]

What is your exact Paradigm model? Sometimes the foam surround will rot but the repair takes about 24 hours and costs about $20 at most. I refoamed four 15" subs from 1991 for $6 each.

It's a PDR-12 model. I bought it from a sound specialty store locally 20+ years ago. I'm not sure I would have the know-how to re-foam a sub myself, but they tell me they have a guy who comes in twice a month to do such repairs on subs. At first I didn't think it would be worth repairing a 20+ year-old subwoofer but I'm very happy with the Paradigm one I have and it's a hell of a lot less expensive than buying a new one. Plus, from what I've been reading in reviews, a number of brands out there now are more cheaply made these days, and people talk about amps failing and fuses blowing within a year or less of use - not something I would want to deal with. If I do eventually get a new sub, I'd like to get something quality like an SVS one.

 

[Robert_J]

I had never refoamed a speaker either. I watched a You Tube video and did it. $6 for each foam surround and Aileen's Tacky Glue from the craft section in Wal-Mart.

I've even done half a dozen recones. Yes, the first one is a little scary but when you are done you will think that they are really not that difficult. Here's a photobucket slide show of a recone I did. The magnet and basket were bought on a car audio site for $30. I think I paid $150 for the 12" cone, spider and voice coil setup. It was built to my specs by a company called Fix My Speaker.

http://s3.photobucket.com/user/rlj5242/slideshow/PSI 12 Sub

And photobucket put them in the wrong order. Here's a summary:
clean the basket so the glue will stick
shim the voice coil gap so that everything lines up
put E-6000 glue on the spider landing
put Tacky glue on the surround landing
drop in the recone
wait until it dries
connect the tinsel leads to the terminals
test
mark where the dust cap goes
apply E-6000 glue
apply the dust cap
wait until it dries

That sub gets 1,000 watts every time my wife takes a drive.

 

[Mark Abrams]

Took it into the audio specialty store where I originally bought the sub many years ago, and it turns out the foam surround is intact (after 20+ years!)- seems like a couple of capacitors on the amp board are swollen/looking unusual. I basically just told them that I'd have to make a judgment call on whether to repair or not once I hear the estimate of what it will cost to fix.

 

[Robert_J]

A couple of caps are no more than $5. If it was more than $50, I'd attempt the replacement of the caps myself.

 

[Mark Abrams]

So I finally heard back from the store - I didn't ask specifically what the problem was, but Paradigm said it would be around $130 to fix, plus maybe $40 shipping back and forth, in the end the estimate was $170 to $190 - would I be crazy to invest that much in fixing a 20+ year old sub? I know a decent new one will run me more than $200, but still ...

 

[alabamaroberts]

I dont think I would put that kind of money into a 20 year old sub. Especially when you can get a new one for a few bucks more. I know it wont be a world-class sub, but there are definitely decent ones out there for a few hundred bucks. For example, BICs PL-200 sub. Its a 12" powered sub and can be had for about $280. Look at the AcousticSoundDesgin website for them. They usually are willing to make a deal.

 

[Mark Abrams]

I dont think I would put that kind of money into a 20 year old sub. Especially when you can get a new one for a few bucks more. I know it wont be a world-class sub, but there are definitely decent ones out there for a few hundred bucks. For example, BICs PL-200 sub. Its a 12" powered sub and can be had for about $280. Look at the AcousticSoundDesgin website for them. They usually are willing to make a deal.

I was thinking of buying an SVS PB-1000, but it's at the outside of my budget and I'm not sure how a 10" sub will sound compared to my former 12" Paradigm... I like the idea of the BIC PL-200, but can I be sure that the amp won't go within a year or 2? Reading reviews makes me crazy, because there's always someone who had the sub fail on them within a year or less.. ..

 

[alabamaroberts]

The BIC America/Acoustech line generally has a good warranty. The PL-200 says:

• Warranty: Extended 8 Years Parts & Labor on Driver, 5 Years on Amp & Associated Electronics.

 

[Jerome Grate]

I was thinking of buying an SVS PB-1000, but it's at the outside of my budget and I'm not sure how a 10" sub will sound compared to my former 12" Paradigm... I like the idea of the BIC PL-200, but can I be sure that the amp won't go within a year or 2? Reading reviews makes me crazy, because there's always someone who had the sub fail on them within a year or less.. ..

I think your choice in the SVS PB-1000 is not just a replacement but improvement. Plenty of power, plenty low end bass. I am not sure of the size of the room, but if your old sub filled the room and shook a few things, then imagine this sub shaking everything. I do not have a pair, but I have seen testing of the SVS subs on Youtube. When I am ready to upgrade, it would be to SVS.

 

[Mark Abrams]

I think your choice in the SVS PB-1000 is not just a replacement but improvement. Plenty of power, plenty low end bass. I am not sure of the size of the room, but if your old sub filled the room and shook a few things, then imagine this sub shaking everything. I do not have a pair, but I have seen testing of the SVS subs on Youtube. When I am ready to upgrade, it would be to SVS.

I actually ended up buying the SVS PB-1000 and couldn't be happier with it. It's hard for me to understand, but the 10" ported SVS sub sounds as good - actually BETTER - than that 20+y/o Paradigm ported 12" sub, especially in my relatively small room and average to low ceiling. And it can really rumble and thump - very impressive indeed. It's definitely been an upgrade for me; I was tremendously impressed with SVS from the first call to inquire, right through the purchase process to the extremely well packaged shipping. They've earned my business in the future.