Star Trek Enterprise and Braga comments (1 Viewer)

[Yee-Ming]

Some of this is going to sound silly, but, for better or worse, it's true: however "great" Shakespeare's work may be in its own right---and who decides that?---it is held societally to be so because in large part we are inculcated to believe it is so.

I've always wondered myself, is Shakespeare truly so brilliant, or is it today we are all led to believe that it is?

How exactly was Shakespeare regarded in his day? A literary genius, or the equivalent of today's Grisham, or Clancy, bestsellers both but not exactly considered high-brow literature, yes?

By the same token, how will future audiences (and HT hobbyists) consider the likes of Star Trek, Star Wars, the Matrix?

I don't know the answer to that question. But I will say that personally I'm a fan of all three. And it's debates like this thread that make things particularly interesting for fans.

(Obscure music quote in last paragraph -- I just watched ABC perform here in Singapore about 10 days ago... )

 

[CameronS]

Andrew, do you even watch Star Trek or anything else for that matter?

The short argument against Enterprise is one for simple continuity and better writing. That's it. I don't think that's too much to ask, and could be applied to any TV series. That's not nitpicking, and if Star Trek isn't remembered 50 years from now, who cares? That's irrelevant.

 

[Jack Briggs]

I think we can let go of Andrew's comments for now (this is not aimed at you, Cameron, but everyone). Thanks!

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

I still check out trekweb sometimes and saw the cast picture for season 3 yesterday. They have T'pol in a Bright Tight Red catsuit.
Now if this is there idea of a new direction, the show is doomed.

 

[BobV]

Well, I had a big long post about how I don't mind Enterprise and kind of countering alot of the naysayers but I remembered it will just be fodder for most, especially seeing that most that dump on Enterprise figure that we (the people that watch it) don't care and we should just stay out of the thread. I also remember the last time I posted in favour of Enterprise I was 'spanked', and I remember my lessons , so my backspace key did it's job .

 

[Jason Seaver]

especially seeing that most that dump on Enterprise figure that we (the people that watch it) don't care and we should just stay out of the thread.

No, that's not it... I just get irked when I see someone try to pre-empt discussion by implying that having an opinion is investing too much emotion. If you like it, and can articulate why, believe me, that's more than welcome.

It just seems that a lot of people who defend the last ten years of [non-DS9] Trek don't make a particularly convincing argument. It always seems based on "it could be worse" or "your expectations are too high"; I see very few people make a claim that Enterprise or Voyager before it is above-average television, as opposed to just time-filler.

Believe me, I want someone to. I want to know that it's something I'm missing, that Enterprise is indeed a worthy heir to TOS, TNG, and DS9, and worth missing Smallville for. But even the show's fans (and producers!) never seem to be able to do that.

 

[BobV]

I see very few people make a claim that Enterprise or Voyager before it is above-average television, as opposed to just time-filler.

Let it be known that I definitely do not think Enterprise is the best thing on TV, but it is far from the 'dreck' a lot make it out to be.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Okay... Now, is there anyone out there who can praise Enterprise without qualifying it? I mean, even the folks arguing in Enterprise's favor seem to be damning with faint praise.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

I watched Voyager for 7 years and I though it wasnt the best think on Television, I kept watching it for two reasons, because I had always liked Trek in the past and grew up with it and because I hoped it would get better.
It never did.

After the Voyager experience, I wont watch "Just Because". Now I find myself being a bit more choosy about what I watch on a regular basis because as I get older I have more things to do and less time to do it. So when I sit down to watch TV, its going to be something that I really enjoy as opposed to something that isn't as bad as people say it is.

Enterprise doesnt qualify as anything other than a sub par Television, in my opinion, and its not even good Science Fiction for that matter so I dont watch it anymore. I am tired of The New Directions and The New Uniforms, when what is wrong with Enterprise is more than cosmetic.

I dont know, maybe I am spoiled after watching much better Sci Fi such as Farscape and B5 as I mentioned above. They dont take the safe route like recent Trek, they challenge the viewer, they offer surprises not to mention characters you care about and that evolve.


I am not trying to say anyone is bad or doesnt have taste because they like Enterprise, I am just saying that the writers play it too safe and what could be compelling TV is not.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

exactly. Ira Behr is free again, offer him whatever it takes, and let him choose his writing staff. As long as B&B lock themselves in their offices, continue to collect those checks boys, just don't be "creative" again. Please

 

[Dan Paolozza]

For what it's worth, I think Enterprise is getting better (albeit slowly). Yes, Seaver, this is faint praise, but it's progressive faint praise.

I stopped watching after about Episode 7 of Season 2, for many of the reasons discussed above (writing re-hash, poor direction, poorly written & acted characters, weak stories, etc). In the meantime, I recorded every episode to watch them at a later date - like during the summer when there's not much on, etc.

In pounding out episode after episode over the last week or so, I've noticed a slight improvement. The writing is getting a little better (like the Borg episode, or the Cogenitor episode). That is, I'm finding them a little more interesting, a little more suspenseful, and consistent (within themselves - I will not get into a continuity debate). On the last point, what I mean is that the flow of the character's actions and decisions from the beginning of the story to the end feels much more directed and consistent than episodes from the first half of the season, and episodes from last season. These attributes in particular help build character consistency and I can identify & care about them moreso than before. Moreso than I expected to, at the very least. I have found that I am really (finally?) buying into the Trip-Archer-T'pol dynamic which had felt so forced in the past.

I felt pretty embarrassed sitting through many episodes of TNG Seasons 1 & 2, and to a lesser degree, DS9 (albeit similar moments in Enterprise have been more frequent than in either of these previous two series). Seeing as I am finding Enterprise is improving, I think there's hope yet. Something is changing for the better, I think, and it may be more slow-going with B&B, but I believe there is evidence that this series could ramp up in quality. Because I perceive improvement, I find myself forgiving of the continued blantant re-hash of ideas, themes, and stories. Some of the most recent episodes have been decent despite re-hash; yes, they are re-hash, but have a "new enough" look to them with an overall increase in technical & dramatic quality to the episode, such that I really don't mind the re-hash so much.

And now back with the faint praise: I'm not saying the improvement is enough to warrant full-throttle support by anyone (I can't even claim I will do so in the coming season). But I think there is consistent improvement, even if it's slight. And I think it's being lost in the hopelessness this series instilled in the core audience earlier on in its run.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

QUOTE/] Seeing as I am finding Enterprise is improving, I think there's hope yet. Something is changing for the better, I think, and it may be more slow-going with B&B, but I believe there is evidence that this series could ramp up in quality[/quote]


But how many people will or should wait until B and B get the S***T together?
Most other shows on Network Television dont need 2-3 years to become good or show us what they have got.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

It took them 5 years to get Voyager from a steaming pile to the one season where they had about a 50/50 split of good and mediocre episodes. I trend which died as they atarted to sink again immediately in season 6. I'm really not looking forward to another 5 seasons of slight improvement and another decent into suck.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Most other shows on Network Television dont need 2-3 years to become good or show us what they have got.

Well, they may, but they're sure not going to get it. Getting a 6-13 episode initial order (with no real guarantee that they'll all run) is the norm, but B&B have been acting (with some justification) as though they've got 162 episodes to play around with from the start.

 

[Dan Paolozza]

Mikel_Cooperman Said:

Jeff, I disagree. I think Voyager got worse for at least 3 seasons, without even the miniscule improvement I'm giving Enterprise credit for. I dropped Voyager shortly thereafter, so I can't comment on anything in season 5. From what I did watch of it, I thought it was stagnantly bad for 2 seasons, and largely got worse in the third. I did watch the last half of season 6, which I thought was just as 'sucky' as everything I remembered. With Enterprise, I think the improvement is, as I said, thus far progressive, and therefore I see more hope for this series than I did for Voyager.

Note: Sorry for semi-plagiarizing Rex's style (didn't use nice shiny colours)...I've never addressed separate, multiple quotes before, and couldn't think of a better way to handle it.

 

[PhilipG]

Enterprise had no standout eps in season 2. Not one where I could justify the 45 mins lost in my life. All I can remember of that run was a good first 10 mins in the Borg ep, and a couple of DS9 guest actors, and, oh yes, the "I have pictures" line. Season 1 OTOH had a couple of decent eps - the Vulcan base one & the Shuttlepod One ep (ironically a B&B script) spring to mind.

I don't mind eps that try to be different and fail - though obviously I prefer it when they succeed - it's the sheer mediocrity in output that depresses me. Someone in production needs to start giving a damn about the series again.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

From Something Awful's Fall Show Roundup:

Star Trek: Space Adventures In Space (Sci-Fi) - Gene Roddenberry's corpse is raped again to produce yet another undead fetus of a science fiction series which will offend hardcore Star Trek fans while simultaneously not appealing to anybody else. Certain "creative liberties" are taken by the writers of Star Trek: Space Adventures In Space which allow them to create the most exciting and action-packed tales this side of the Nebulon galaxy! For example, the Klingons are now all Germans with British accents and the Vulcans participate in a sport called "Mazeball" which is exactly like baseball except it's called "Mazeball" and has Vulcans instead of pitchers. Also, women don't wear shirts in space, producing sexy futuristic results. When Captain Cooldude and the crew of the SS Awesomeprize are threatened by a new and futuristic race of creatures named "The Moglins," who are humanoid in shape and appearance but the camera uses the blue filter whenever showing them, it's a race against time and the stakes are great - the future of the Federation! The good news: the producers of Star Trek: Space Adventures In Space have made a deal with the viewing audience that for every Neilson point they drop below 2, they'll show a main character getting naked in the Holodeck and having sex either in or with a lawn chair. The bad news: the first character to agree to this is Captain Cooldude, played by Lance Hendrickson.

 

[Chris]

What is Robert Wolfe doing now? Going back through the seasons of DS9, I'm always reminded of how free-flowing he was in participating in email exchanges and DS9 Usenet groups.. he was one of those I always thought cared for the fans and managed to care about what the plot/story was doing

 

[Jason Seaver]

He is one of the good guys. Last I heard from him, after he was booted off Andromeda (as a consequence, that show is dead to me), he was working on a novel and some feature pitches. He also did a decent episode of The Twilight Zone for his old boss, Ira Behr.

 

[Tony Whalen]

Lance Hendrickson naked in a lawn chair...



What a horrible mental image.

Thanks for the laugh Jeff!