SOPRANOS Season 6: Season Finally!!!.. Episode 12: "KAISHA" (2 Viewers)

[Mikah Cerucco]

You have the job on the books, but nobody really expects you to show up and actually work. Essentially it's one of many ways to siphon money out of a legitimate enterprise. Easier to explain than outright payola.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Right. Even last episode, Tony was arguing with Phil over the construction sites that Vito used to have and he told him "my guys need those no shows for the health benefits and the W2's" or something to that effect. I think when Vito and the others were sitting around the site were jobs where they had to punch in, but not work. I remember Tony and Vito negotiating for "X many no shows and the rest onsite" that season. But they are essentially the same thing - Mob payoffs to keep the Unions in line.

 

[Steve...O]

This season started off so strong for the first batch of episodes and then the Vito thing happened and it hasn't recovered in my opinion since better storylines took a back seat to this.

Episode 11 was a let down for me. Glad to see the Vito chapter closed but it took way too long to happen. Paris was a reminder that the wives are superficial and not above reproach themselves. Fine, we've always known that so let's move on.

I'm coming around to those who believe that this season was "padded" to get the extra episodes. Unlike prior seasons, I don't see me watching the finale wishing it didn't have to end. Instead, barring some really good writing in E12, I'll just be happy its over so I can pull the plug on my HBO subscription.

If Vito is how Chase wanted to create the dissention b/ NY and NJ, fine, but it could have been done in 1 episode, 2 tops, rather than stringing it for more than a month.

 

[EricW]

-did Carmela actually suggest Tony fool around when she approached him about going to Paris? she was like 'hey it'll be good for you too, you can do whatever boys do...' no wonder Tony didn't feel guilty and was finally able to let loose

-i thought it was hilarious when they were talking about Vito's killing the next morning: 'i wish i'd borrowed money from that guy' - then a closeup of the guy who borrowed money from him (obviously he tipped off Phil)

-i'm glad to see Tony finally (hopefully) getting through to AJ; for a while i was expecting AJ to try to commit suicide - a screwup up with a successful sister, who knows his friends only like him because he's the boss's kid - he has to lie to them about doing 'business', then when he actually tries taking out Uncle Jr he fails miserably. he doesn't seem to value the rest of his life if he's willing to go to jail for murder.

 

[Blu]

I have to agree. The season did start fairly strong and got better for a couple of episodes afterwards but hit the wall when the Vito storyline started to happen and quickly faded from there.

The Sopranos are over with and so is my HBO subscriptionl.

 

[JonZ]

"since it's governemnt-funded projects"

Tony made a joke about this in a earlier season, about how the govt will be paying the bills. I think it was one of the earliest episodes when Christohper said "garbage was their bread and butter" and Tony replied "not anymore".

"This season started off so strong for the first batch of episodes and then the Vito thing happened and it hasn't recovered in my opinion since better storylines took a back seat to this."

I agree as well. Things went downhill and Vito started getting so much time after taking off.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

i'm glad the vito storyline won't be a major story anymore. it wasn't too interesting, and took too long to pay off so little.

i'm really interested to see what AJ ends up doing. can't get enough of tony slapping him around, he is pretty annoying sometimes. i noticed a similarity between tony and AJ though. when tony asked AJ about what he wanted to do in the future, and tony (or carmela?) said something like "what about event planning, you mentioned you wanted to do something with that" and AJ said he never said that. i saw this as tony pulling a 180 concerning the nursing home/retirement community. livia would say "i'm not going in a nursing home!" and tony would yell "it's a retirement community!" but this season, tony was in dr. melfi's office, and she said something about putting his mother in a retirement community, and tony yelled "it's a nursing home!" seems they both have selective memory. makes me wonder if AJ's panic attacks will ever come back.

CJ

 

[Alex-C]

Will Carmela leave Anthony ?
Its been speculated here in this thread and elsewhere. After watching Cold Stone again, I could see how that could be interpreted.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Line of the week:

"I loved him like a brother-in-law"


This is the kind of comment that I don't get at all. Does anyone pay attention to this show? The Vito storyline hasn't even started paying off yet. His disgrace, his death, the fall-out from that will echo through the rest of the series - but it had to be set up first. In order to mean anything to the characters, in order to mean anything to us, we had to see it unfold. And sometimes it is about the journey, not the destination. Sometimes I think people would like the see the teaser of a TV show followed immediately by the tag, with none of that time-wasting story in between.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Christ Reynolds]

rest of the series? there's 9 episodes left. and how do you even know it will pay off at all? not every story with the main characters goes somewhere, nevermind someone like vito. before the gay thing, we didn't see him that much, even though he was an important character. i'm sure there is more to be said about it, but i know to 'expect the unexpected' with this show.

if i were to guess, i'd say the rest of the series would focus quite a bit on the changes tony experienced as kevin finnerty. apart from the season finale, they have 8 episodes to wrap up the entire series, and i would guess not that much will have to do with typical mob stuff. sure, the vito thing was a big deal, and we now see what happens to a gay member of the family, even a captain. but i think a lot of the remainder of the series will have to do with AJ and carmela. the fun is sitting back and watching.

CJ

 

[Jeremiah]

Like many have said, if Chase used the Vito story to bring about a fued between Jersey and New York than it was garbage writing/stupid/lazy/ just plain not interesting. You pick, but if we had to watch however amount of screen time to come to a point that could of been reached with much better writting and a quicker resolution.

Yeah, once/if the war of the two families gets going it will be exciting(should be anyway), but to use the Vito story to get there was just stupid and I sure as hell expected more from The Sopranos.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Don't all Sopranos fans know that!

This has always been the biggest complaint of the series.
Characters and stories come and go as if they were afterthoughts.
Throughout the history of this show, there's been a "who's who" list
of "Whatever happened to...?"

Of course, this has become the biggest debate amongst fans.
Some, like me, are pissed off that storylines go nowhere and
are often unresolved. Others love the fact that Chase keeps
this show a character piece and doesn't rely on patching holes
in the storyline.

...all I know is that there's a Russian guy still running around
in the Jersey Pine Barrens.

 

[Berk]

No more Johnny Cakes!

 

[Charlie Campisi]

I think what has so many people bothered is that the whole Johnny Cakes storyline in NH didn't have to happen at all. If they would have had Vito outed by the two collection thugs and Phil cap him before he left Jersey, would the series have lost anything? It would have picked up in exactly the same place.

If on the other hand, you are a fan of the show and love the character development even if it does not figure as necessary content to a longer running storyline, are you happy with the Johnny Cakes storyline in and of itself? Personally, I am ok with some loose ends and character stories. I am fine that they decided to show Vito in NH. I liked the symbol of him transitioning back into "the life" and killing a guy along the way. But... I also think they spent far too long on NH. They could have gotten the same message across with far less screen time.

 

[Jim DiJoseph]

"I think what has so many people bothered is that the whole Johnny Cakes storyline in NH didn't have to happen at all. If they would have had Vito outed by the two collection thugs and Phil cap him before he left Jersey, would the series have lost anything? It would have picked up in exactly the same place."

I believe many people are missing one of the main points of this aspect of the storyline. Vito was slowly finding a new life, a happy life, one that would permit him to finally live freely. The new relationship(s), the new town, even the food were all contributing to this new-found happiness. However, when it came down to earning a living, Vito just couldn't settle for real job. He was willing to give up his new 'home' and even risk death just because he couldn't live outside of the mob lifestyle. That, to me, is pretty powerful.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

And.. that leading him to his death has Led Tony to his Impasse because he has to retalite due to one of his made guys getting whacked. And on the Other side since it was Tony's Duty to Whack him and he did'nt it will also bring Consequences. Which add to the layer that was already there because of Tony's Cousin, that he had to whack so that Phil would'nt whack him. In this way you can see Tony's Motivations. It's not so much he cared about Vito, it's that he did'nt want to give into Phil becasue Phil Made him Whack his cousin.

The Sopranos is so richly layered that it saddens me that it's dismissed as poor story telling because you don't see them give everything a tied up ending. The Russian Mobster in the Pine Barrens is meaningless, it's what ripples in the storylines of the characters occured due to that Mobster.

 

[Charlie Campisi]

But, Dave, if you look at what you just wrote, all of that could happen without any scenes in NH. They all could have happened off camera. I'm one of the people that doesn't need nice neat endings to every story thread. I just don't think there needed to be as much time spent in NH onscreen for the point that I got out of it, that Vito was the catalyst to a conflict. I liked the transitions between the two lifestyles, but I didn't need as much of the love story. I agree that Jim brought up a good point about how much Vito loved his new lifestyle, but still couldn't turn his back on the life. He also came back because he missed his kids, but I take Jim's point.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Reminds me of the conversations about Clint Eastwood's Mystic River. Those who hated it said it was unbelievable, trivial and bad writing for a "whodunnit". Those who loved it did not see a "whodunnit", but a richly layered character piece about life, death, redemption and damnation. It was like two sides arguing two completely different movies. It went from "What is the symbolism of Dave's mutterings about vampires and werewolves" and "What is the meaning of the unfinished name in the sidewalk" to "How come Kevin Bacon never caught Sean Penn, there's no ending without that happening" and "He didn't seem concerned about his daughter, Clint has to show us that or else we don't know".

 

[JonZ]

"and i would guess not that much will have to do with typical mob stuff"

I disagree. We'll see NJ and NY tensions growing and prob being resolved in the last 8.

My guess is Phil will be gone with Little Carmine being put into the top NY position - a happy ending for Tony becuase hes a pushover.

I still think its a possibility for Tony to take a less active role as the series winds down splitting control with Christopher.

 

[Holadem]

Thanks for the "No show job" clarifications. I figured it was something of the sort, but didn't know the details.

About Vito, at the risk of repeating myself, my problem with his storyline is that the guy is just neither likeable nor (biggest offender!) interesting in the least. To me anyway. I enjoyed that plot on an intellectual level, but not an emotional one, and am not sorry to see it end.

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H