SOPRANOS Season 6: Season Finally!!!.. Episode 12: "KAISHA"

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by todbnla, Jan 27, 2005.

  1. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Did you watch the episode? Bringing up Jackie Junior's death as a dinner conversation? That was absolutely UNBELIEVABLE!!!! Carmela is a hateful selfish bitch with absolutely no concern at all of anyone other than Carmella. She's deplorable. They all are. It's a wonder that Chase makes the story so compelling when all of these people are such complete swine.
     
  2. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    Anyone else enjoy Phil coming out of the closet to watch Vito get whacked? It was worth a chuckle.
     
  3. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    I found Carmela's story very visually interesting, but it seemed a little mis-placed in the story. Not complaining, as I did like it a lot. Great episode. I was half-horrified/half-cracking-up when Sil and Carlo were killing fat Dom.
     
  4. Charlie Campisi

    Charlie Campisi Screenwriter

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    Nice. I didn't catch that.

    Carmella's delivery of the line about realizing that the deaths of many generations of people leaving no lasting impact seemed appropriate in light of the NY/NJ brewing storm.

    After Tony drives the dancer home: "You're sweet" as she takes the cash. [​IMG]

    Watching Vito's kids reading the paper was really hard.

    "They found Vito."
    "I wish I had borrowed money from him." [​IMG]

    The other theme I liked in this episode was the Godfather references, "it's business, not personal." Tony, moreso than anyone, gets this. He always thinks about how his decisions will affect his business. Whether or not to bring Vito back was all about whether he could generate money, but the loss of Vito's ability to work with the construction guys was a problem. Then once they make the decision to get rid of Vito, but Phil beats him to it, the next discussion is how to best preserve the business. It's no longer about mocking Vito, or wanting him dead, or even thinking Phil did him a favor. It's now about someone killing a guy that was Tony's responsibility.

    But he doesn't want war if he can avoid it. "Guys on the mattresses are not earning." ("Going to the mattresses" is another expression I first heard in Godfather.) Tony has to weigh the decision of which will be more costly, starting a war or losing credibility with NY as well as his own guys by not doing anything. When he decides to steal from Phil's "wire room" (what is that?) instead of an eye for an eye and killing a captain, the viewer is now fully aware that it's the smart, businesslike move. But then Fat Dom goes too far and we are now all bracing for what will come. Nice.
     
  5. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    A bookie joint. It's called a "wire room" because of all the phone lines that have to be run in. Christopher was running a "wire room" when he was in charge of the "Real Estate" company.
     
  6. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    I think this was just another example of Carmella's lack of class and decorum. The whole Carm story in this episode dealt with her not being up to par with true wealth and elegance. She's mafia rich, and although all the Prada bags and designer clothes may say she has money, the lack of confidence in her French, the lack of class at the dinner table (along with Rosalie dropping 'F' bombs left and right) and her general lost look amongst some of the world's greatest architecture and art (contrasted by a stark look at the front of Satriale's) all say she is just a mob wife from Jersey.
     
  7. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Yes, I did watch the episode. And while bringing up Jackie Jr. was a terrible idea, it wasn't done to be mean spirited. She did it because she was depressed and incorrectly assumed that Rosalie was feeling the same way and wanted to talk about it. It was the wrong time and topic (to say the least) but she didn't bring it up to say "Haha my son is alive and yours is dead!", I think she did out of concern for her friend.
     
  8. LewB

    LewB Screenwriter

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    I think Carm also sees the possibility of her nitwit son (A.J.) winding up in the rackets like Jackie Jr. did. Carm knows that A.J. is not that bright and wouldn't last long 'in the life'. That may be what keeps her thinking of Jackie Jr.
     
  9. Rob Willey

    Rob Willey Screenwriter

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    They made that pretty clear by cutting from Carmella staring at the ornate architecture on the bridge to Sil outside the Bing telling the guy cleaning the sign, "Make sure you clean that shit off her tit."

    I thought Carm's storyline was brilliant this week with its contrasts to the mob life and meditations on death ala Tony's coma.

    Rob
     
  10. Rob Willey

    Rob Willey Screenwriter

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    Move along, nothing to see here...
     
  11. Jason Boucher

    Jason Boucher Stunt Coordinator

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    Tell me if I'm dead wrong. I thought the killing scene with Silvio was an homage to Goodfellas. The actor who plays Phil in Sopranos was whacked in Goodfellas in a similar fashion while, "just bustin your balls." In GF, Pesci hits him in the head with a pistol, breaking the pistol and spewing bullets all over the floor. Last night, Silvio hit him with a dust buster, spewing dust all over the floor! They wrap both bodies in a table cloth. Both scenes were 2 on 1 and incredibily violent. The perps in both scenes quickly lock the door after the killing, realizing they have just killed a made guy without a sit down. And, both victims are stabbed repeatedly with a butcher knife. In fact, I think the scene last night is almost a cut for cut copy of the GF scene. And, there currently are 4 GF actors appearing in Sopranos.

    Incidentally, I thought that Johnny's wedding scene a few weeks back was an intentional contrast to the Godfather wedding scene. The "No request can be denied on your daughter's weddding day." But, whereas in the GF, the FBI are locked out of the compound and have to take down license plates of the attendees, in Sopranos, they are in the church searching guests, making them take off their shoes. And Johnny, instead of being the omnipotent Godfather, is escorted out in shackles with tears.

    I think both scenes are meant to show the bleak reality of today's Mafia, compared with the romanticized version and glory days of the mob past. Times have changed, which has been a persistent theme this season. I too haven't been a big fan of this season, but if I'm right on these two allusions to the greatest mob movies of all time, I can't help but respect David Chase's artistic vision.
     
  12. Brent M

    Brent M Producer

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    My favorite line of the episode. [​IMG]
     
  13. Allen Hirsch

    Allen Hirsch Supporting Actor

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    Nice catch and contrast re: Goodfellas and the Godfather.

    That was the ultimate "touche'" moment for Tony with Dr. Melfi: "you're now complaining that Carmela did for AJ the very thing you hated your mother for NOT doing - protecting the son from the father".
     
  14. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    Tony's subsequent talk with AJ was a direct result of this. Compare this with the "talk" outside the police station after AJ's failed attempt at killing Junior. That conversation had Tony at odds with himself in that he wanted AJ away from the life; yet was disappointed AJ screwed up his first attempt to enter the life. Now he just wants him to learn the benefit of hard work. A bit of growth for Tony, not withstanding the bashing in of the windshield.
     
  15. Allen Hirsch

    Allen Hirsch Supporting Actor

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    My impression: AJ would NOT have taken Tony's job offer at all seriously, if he hadn't bashed in the windshield, then said something to the effect of, "don't put me to the test". Also loved the litany of things Tony would take away from AJ if he didn't get off his ass and go to work.

    AJ finally got the message.
     
  16. Blu

    Blu Screenwriter

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    This episode seemed to salvage some of the wrongs the past couple of episodes had committed.

    I don't know, I still think that after nearly two years it could have been better though.
     
  17. Alex-C

    Alex-C Screenwriter

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    It seems to me, most, if not all, that stuff with Vito away from the crew was for nothing. A lot of time was spent on his escapades and then he comes back and whammo ! he gets what we all knew he was going to get.
    I mean, I just don't get why we needed a Johnny Cakes detour for the last x episodes.
    Not that I minded it, I actually enjoy all facets of the show.
    I dont know...his punishment almost seemed anticlimatic because of all this time spent on him. I actually thought something else was going to happen.
    meh...oh well.
     
  18. todd stone

    todd stone Screenwriter

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    a couple of things.....


    rumors going around that Phil might be gay. He is very crazy about offing Vito. He had some awkward pauses on his bed with his wife discussing gay people. He yelled to turn the muscle people off of the tv. He gripped his fists when they beat Vito, this is a killer, he never grips.

    I think the symbolism of him coming out of the closet was not symbolism meant for Vito, but rather Phil. Chase won't go anywhere with this, but think about it....


    Also, if you noticed Carm was stating how beautiful Paris was when she was standing on the bridge, then the scene immediatley changes to Sill stating clean the shit off her tit [​IMG] Big contrast
     
  19. JonZ

    JonZ Lead Actor

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    Did anyone notice the music when Tony was getting blown in his truck while bringing the stripper home?
    "Imm baaaaaaack. Back in Black" [​IMG]
     
  20. erik bush

    erik bush Agent

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    it looked like he was getting some pleasure from watching it to me, not gripping. he seemed a little TOO happy about it.
     

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