Shout Factory Press Release: Clive Barker's Nightbreed The Director's Cut Limited Edition

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Ronald Epstein, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. Derrick King

    Derrick King Supporting Actor

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    Diabolik had some copies of DEMONS and DEMONS 2 but with Synapse almost sold out, I don't know if they will get anymore:
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  2. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    Yup. A lot has changed. They found the original negatives for all of the cut material, some of which wasn't even in the Cabal Cut. On this week's Clive Barker Podcast, the producer from Scream Factory said that the new scenes should end up looking even better than the footage they're using from the Theatrical version, since only an interpositive was available for that. The downside is that they don't have the budget to go though all of the audio elements for the new footage and will be forced to re-use audio from the VHS workprint. So, it will look great and sound not-so-great. Oh well, it's a miracle the thing is coming out at all.
     
  3. Jari K

    Jari K Producer

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    "The downside is that they don't have the budget to go though all of the audio elements for the new footage and will be forced to re-use audio from the VHS workprint."Yes, I have to admit that this put a small cloud over this set. Small perhaps, but still.But yes, going through 600 boxes to find certain audio bits probably would be impossible. At least for the smaller company like Shout.
     
  4. McCrutchy

    McCrutchy Second Unit

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    I'm sorry, but this is pathetic. If these statements are true, and Shout! lacks the funds to source the proper audio (even though it likely exists, it seems) then they need to shelve the project or open up a Kickstarter to raise additional funds.

    The HD master being created from this effort is probably the one shot Nightbreed will have in any form, and it's sickening to think that now, even with proper audio available, Shout! would embark on project where they will be up-rezzing VHS audio and/or providing scenes with NO audio at all. This isn't some film from the 1920s. If the audio still exists, Shout! owes it to the fans, and to the film itself to halt, and source more funds to do this properly.

    Incredible to think that they would spend so much time and money to find the lost film, and now we come to this.

    I will be keeping a close eye on this situation. If Shout! does not make it clear that they intend to restore the audio, then it's very likely that I may not support the release at all.
     
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  5. bgart13

    bgart13 Screenwriter

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    Something to consider -- chances are, none of the "new" scenese being added to this cut have finished audio to begin with.
     
  6. McCrutchy

    McCrutchy Second Unit

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    Right, so I have now been able to listen to Cliff's interview on the podcast. Some interesting things:

    1. The theatrical cut, as well as the footage in the theatrical cut that will be in the new director's cut, comes from a new HD master Shout! produced, from an interpositive held by Warner.

    2. The additional footage comes from the original camera negative (Cliff even muses that it could look better than the rest of the film).

    3. Any additional content that Clive Barker doesn't assemble into the director's cut, but does allow to be included as deleted material, will be included on the third BD.

    4. According to Cliff, because the audio and negative are separate, and because Shout! is a small company, it would take "years" to assemble the audio back into the film. (This is what I don't buy, at all), so the audio from the Cabal Cut will be used (I assume only where relevant) and "sweetened" to sound "as good as the regular film does".

    This really, really bothers me. Shout! has audio available, but won't be using it, because of financial and time concerns. Cliff says many times that they are a small company and not a studio, and he also says that they would have loved to spend $100,000 or $200,000 on the project, but can't. Okay, fine. GO TO THE FANS.

    The fans of the film have already spent over $80,000 on this release in just a few days, and surely more could have been raised to get the full audio on the release.

    As much as I appreciate what Shout! is doing, I have no desire to watch a director's cut of a film, for which audio was available, but not utilized, because Shout! cannot spend the money (and it seems to me, does not want to spend the additional effort) to restore the audio to the video. This is just painful to think of.
     
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  7. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    It's not like the fans have donated $80,000, they've bought the Blu-ray. Shout would need another $100,000 or $200,000 on top of what fans have already spent. Besides the problem that most fans don't care about the audio being sourced from the Cabal cut, what kind of incentives would Shout be able to offer to get people to donate that much money on Kickstarter? The movie isn't in production so big ticket items like set visits, walk-on roles, props or premiere tickets are impossible. Shout has the Blu-ray itself (which isn't free), maybe a handful of things that Clive Barker could donate from his personal collection or some autographs. None of that is going to generate $100,000.

    Everyone wants a perfect product but, unfortunately, budget is a reality and adding another hundred grand to the budget would have probably been impossible.
     
  8. McCrutchy

    McCrutchy Second Unit

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    The point is, everyone obviously underestimated the demand for this restoration and this release. Now, we are finding out that Shout! only has the ability to bring that restoration halfway. Realistically, this could be the only time that anyone who cares will have access to the trims and audio that Shout! got, so for most people, this is a "now-or-never" situation.

    Of course, in an ideal situation, WB and Morgan Creek would have joined forces for a proper restoration of the film, but that was never going to happen, because these studios had no idea of the demand for this release.

    And to your other point, must every Kickstarter be bursting with swag for donors? Again, fans have ponied up over $80,000 in a matter of days for the promise of the video release, and nothing more. I think the promise of getting the proper audio would be enough, and I certainly don't share your opinion that most don't care about getting VHS-quality audio and silent portions of restored footage in a film where this problem could easily be solved with some time, effort and money. Again, it is being done for the video, so it should be done for the audio, as well.
     
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  9. bgart13

    bgart13 Screenwriter

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    And to think, just a week ago everyone still thought they'd only have the VHS-sourced footage. Then the announcement came that the original neg was found, with all of the cuts. Then less than a week later, fans went from being thrilled to wishing the release wouldn't happen because the unfinished raw audio sourced from tape won't be used. It's a no-win situation for Shout Factory. If Clive is happy with the approach they're taking, then why not fans? I think some perspective is needed here.
     
  10. RJ992

    RJ992 Second Unit

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    Have to agree. I mean, lets face it...the film isn't as well known as HELLRAISER or even LORD OF ILLUSION. It's a small miracle that we're getting this at all. While I too am disappointed about the audio, I'm grateful and commend Shout for going through all the effort to find the footage. As you say, expectations were almost non-existent. But since no major deep-pocketed studio is going to take the time or expense to restore it properly, we can't realistically expect a small company to be able to. And Shout has already done more than we could have expected. I appreciate their efforts and will definitely be buying this, regardless of the audio issue. I'm confident that they will do the best job possible, given their resources. And that's more than the majors do with most of their catalog releases. .
     
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  11. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    I don't mind waiting years if it's done right, they should restore the audio as well, i'm starting to get disappointed by all this.
     
  12. McCrutchy

    McCrutchy Second Unit

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    I would love to be able to agree on this, really I would. Nightbreed is an obscure film, and clearly, no studio wanted anything to do with a Blu-ray release. Having said that, if we are to get a release that has some scenes with VHS-sourced audio and other scenes with no audio and subtitles, then they need to show me that they have gone to the ends of the Earth at this point. That means, you have reached out to studios for assistance, you have reached out to fans for assistance, you understand the gravity of the situation and the value in the elements that you have been given access to.

    Again, let me reiterate, in getting access to these film elements, Shout! have accomplished something no one else could in the last quarter-century. So many labels would kill to get a studio to open up their vault and provide film elements for footage in their films that have been butchered in general release versions. Shout! doesn't seem to take that seriously enough.

    Working from the podcast, which is basically the only information we have that we know comes from someone directly at Shout!, I'm not hearing that any of this was done or considered. Instead, I feel like options to improve the situation were ignored or dismissed, and in the name of otherwise balancing the books, a film restoration will be only partially complete.

    Shout! have not been the most impressive label in general, and knowing many of their releases, I'm inclined to believe that this was less of a passion project than it should be. Just listen to how Cliff is so matter-of-fact about everything in the podcast--he doesn't seem terribly excited does he? If my company were about to be responsible for restoring a film to its original glory after twenty-five years, I would be electrified. Instead, he fobs it off as "a cult film", and almost sounds disrespectful of it. Truly, I am not getting the sense that Cliff or Shout! are as impassioned as they need to be.

    Now certainly, Shout! ticks all the boxes, with 1080p video, 24-bit lossless audio, and extras, which are often newly-produced, but they seem to be unable to go that extra mile a lot, and I will admit that I was surprised by this announcement of the Director's Cut at all. Shout! tend to build off the work of others, which is fine, but they never should have attempted a restoration of a film, if they could not provide the time and funds necessary to see it through properly.
     
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  13. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Not every one but this one absolutely would need major incentives to come anywhere close to getting $100,000. By and large, people aren't interested in donating unless they get something in return.

    If the audio isn't up to anyone's standards, they shouldn't buy it. Granted, that will be a completely futile gesture since it's going to sell out with or without their purchase but at least another fan will have a chance to get a copy.
     
  14. Jari K

    Jari K Producer

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    Please guys, let's not again take that road where we can't criticize this release. With $80 you can. Seriously. But we should also be realistic.If they really have around 600 boxes of material and they really have to scan/listen every bit of that, we can all take a guess how much that would take. But of course it can be done. If they can digitize the material, then it's just time consuming work (listen, write it down w timecode etc). Only after this they could start the actual editing process. Lots of work, no doubt.
     
  15. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp
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    It's pretty cool that we're going to shit all over independent Shout/Scream Factory for not being able to do a full blown, final sound mix/restoration on a alternate cut of a film that no one thought they would ever see, but nary a peep of complaint but a roar of overwhelming gratitude was laid at the feet of Fox when they announced the workprint version of Alien 3 was going to be included in the quadrilogy with unfinished audio and I if I recall, the initial DVD had subtitles.

    I don't think my eyes could roll any harder.
     
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  16. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    I picked up all four Alien films in a fine boxset and it was a lot cheaper than this one single film will be in it's limited edition form.

    I think that is why some of us are complaining, the fact is, this film will have one chance of release, this will be it for Nightbreed so if they don't restore the audio now then it will never get done, the high price had me hoping it would have good image and sound.

    I can take less than ideal audio but ( lots of ) missing audio would be a deal breaker for me, i guess i'll wait for some reviews.
     
  17. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp
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    Fair enough. Write Warners a letter. If it was up to them, it would be unrestored theatrical cut released MOD dumped to the archives.

    If it wasn't for Shout, the DC of Nightbreed wouldn't be revisted at all. The higher price tag is probably due as much to Warners greed for the theatrical to be included. Where is all the praise for that version being included? Usually there are complaints that the version they saw in the theater isn't included in these types of releases.
     
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  18. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    In the case of Nightbreed i don't care for the theatrical, i would be buying this strictly for the directors cut, in the case of Alien 3 i actually think the workprint is inferior and is not Fincher's original vision anyways.

    The reason for buying the limited edition would be if the extra content is superb.

    Don't get me wrong, it's good to see this come out, i just would like more information on the audio, how much is missing, how are they handling the missing audio, are they storing everything they have found, could it be restored at a later date many years from now, i'd like more information.
     
  19. Jari K

    Jari K Producer

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    Shit all over Shout? Are you serious?"this film will have one chance of release, this will be it for Nightbreed so if they don't restore the audio now then it will never get done."Yes, I believe this is the main point. They don't go back to this film, probably ever again. Or should we say, WB won't do that. It's all about the money. Boxes go back to some warehouse.
     
  20. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp
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    Write Warners a letter, maybe they can put some of the money from the Wizard of Oz, Gone With The Wind, Harry Potter, and countless other triple dip releases they now specialize in.

    Yeah, I'd like fully restored audio on a 4K print for theatrical viewings too. It should be clear that Warner's do not care about you the fan, or the film. If it wasn't for Shout, we wouldn't see anything, PERIOD. I'm glad to see what the film was supposed to be, and if that means the audio goes dodgy a bit in places, than so be it.
     
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