Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (3 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

The Book is not getting any press or coverage except on smaller or private Star Trek sites and blogs. Which is too bad.I can understand your feeling Bryan. I knew someone who really enjoyed Voyager and wasn't interested in breaking the fourth wall and learn the behind of the scenes stuff. Just enjoyed the world of the show. You are probably further into the book then I am, so perhaps I have some surprises ahead! The story about Barrymore and The Alternative Factor actually gave me a new appreciation for the actor. I never saw his stuff, but it was a nice surprise to know he wasn't in that episode for being falling down drunk.

 

[FanCollector]

Glad you are enjoying the book, Bryan. I think those "duct tape fixes" are probably common in collaborative arts with deadlines. I thought the work on What Are Little Girls Made Of? may have been the most interesting in that regard. I do see your point about Roddenberry's detractors here, but one of the things I have enjoyed is the way in which we can see his gifts as a writer (or, more accurately, a REwriter) more clearly now that we know who wrote which script drafts. Looking at the episodes he wrote on his own, his resume is not all that impressive, but his contributions to other scripts seem to have been irreplaceable. For example, we recently discussed Balance of Terror on this board and there was a lot of admiration for the scene between Kirk and McCoy, which we now know was almost completely rewritten by Roddenberry.My Fair Lady is one of my all-time favorites, too. I wasn't around yet when it was still getting primetime network airings, but I can imagine that being a big deal.

 

[Nelson Au]

Been trying to take a new approach to finding the final planet to the trivia question.In the back of my mind, I recalled an episode of TAS where a star is mentioned that references a mention in TOS. It's was Beta Niobe and that obviously didn't have a Federation flag planet, just Sarpedon. The search continues! BTW, still slowly making my way through the Voyages book. Things discussed about Roddenberry I read before. Sure, they may not be very flattering to him, but nothing I haven't heard before, mostly. The part that struck me more was Cushman's use of the term, Strike, as he added more incidents that lead to the Network's dislike of him. I remember very clearly of his public speeches where he was commenting how the network would be the bad guy. And also Cushman's take that he had a streak of anti authoritarianism in him. Combined those factors and I can really see, as we've discussed so often, stories in TOS where the Government officials were seen as thorns in Kirk's side. Ferris, Baris, Fox, even Miss Hedford. Just finished the section on The Cage. I know, I've been limited in my reading time! I was thinkig Cushman might have written more about the development of the story, but I see this section is more about the chronicling of the production of the pilot itself. I'm looking forward to once past this preliminary background stuff to get into the meat of each episode.

 

[FanCollector]

Let me know if you would like any additional hints on the last planet.No, I agree that the negative stuff on Roddenberry is not anything new: he antagonized executives, caved on some key decisions, blamed others for mistakes and took credit for things he didn't do, chased actresses and used his position to do so, misled Black and the writers about rewriting policies, etc. However, in looking at the details of the script revisions, there is at least a counter argument now to the writers who almost all insisted he made their scripts worse. And for me, that is a big item for the asset column.I noticed that about the genesis of The Cage also. I wonder if there was very much documentation on it, since as a pilot, it really did come completely from Roddenberry. Unlike the episodes, there were no script editors and associate producers writing memos and revisions. Even Coon's three scripts for the first season, which seem to have uniquely had no rewrites from anyone else, had input and suggestions from other contributors in the form of memos. But The Cage may just not have generated much paperwork in the script phase, leaving Cushman without details on its progression.

 

[Nelson Au]

Lee, that's the part you have me intrigued by, that while I realized that Roddenberry could have been acting no better or worse then anyone else in a business or company, his contributions to episodes he re-wrote I'll be looking forward to. Much has been written in the past of how much time and effort he spent re-writing. I can see that The Cage, as you said, must have been lacking any development memos and other documents that could have tracked its development, makes sense!When I'm plum out of ideas for the last planet, I'll let you know.

 

[Nelson Au]

On an unrelated note on a subject we've discussed, I often have MeTV on these days while doing house chores. last week they did a mini Burke's Law marathon. I noticed so many TOS guest stars. Of note was Susan Oliver.

This week, they are doing My Three Son's. A show I've not seen in ages. I didn't realize Fred MacMurrey's character was so straight laced and idealized. Anyway, an episode had Leslie Parrish appear as a dancer at a bachelor party. And feeling very uncomfortable at the unexpected turn, he sneaks out of the party. It's raided and she gets out of the hotel room and asked Fred for help, who resists at first, but helps and she turns out to be a very nice girl who just had been out of work and did that dance gig out of desperation. As usual, a nicely done episode and ends with an uplifting note. Nice to see her do so many guest star appearances at that time.

That house set looks like they re-used it for Donna Reed and I Dream of Jeannie.

 

[FanCollector]

That is so strange! I have been doing a personal Leslie Parrish marathon all this week. Old TV is apparently a very small world.Burke's Law is a personal favorite. The mysteries are often clever, but the tone is so much fun. I feel like there isn't anything with that much wit on TV anymore. There's very good stuff, but nothing that is in on its own joke that way. Also a very influential show, in that Spelling realized that filling the guest cast with stars both forced the audience to listen to the necessary exposition and also prevented them from just assuming the most famous was the killer. That use of the all-star suspect list presaged Murder on the Orient Express, Murder She Wrote, and all the myriad other examples in the 70s and 80s. (And isn't it amazing that Leslie Parrish never did a Burke's Law? She seems like the ideal guest.)That sounds like a good My Three Sons. I definitely haven't seen that series in thirty years. I liked the reruns as a kid. Maybe I can catch it on ME-TV. Do you mean that the house was the same as in Donna Reed and Jeannie? I didn't remember those two being the same set, but you may well be right. Quite a historic set! The most amazing thing to me about My Three Sons is that MacMurray's contract required all his scenes for the season to be filmed consecutively. So for months after he was long gone, the rest of the cast would be filming their parts in episodes he had started, reacting to nothing until the editors put it all together. That meant that they had to have at least partial scripts finished for the whole season in just the first couple of months of the shooting season.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee and Nelson,

I don't know very much about Burke's Law, but I can't help but wonder if this is where we might eventually discover a 'sevener.'

 

[Nelson Au]

That's it! Now I remember, you mentioned a fun Lloyd Nolan appearance on Remington Steele. I'll have to catch that, it's supposed to be coming up on MeTV. I've been kinda on the fence of buying that series on DVD. I really liked it at the time, the leads made that series fun.I'm afraid I'm not up on Burkes Law! I've heard of it. But I guess the joke is that he's a fabulously wealthy man and is a Police officer. Yet, he runs around in a Rolls solving crimes by day and wooing beautiful women at the end of each case. What a life!Of the episodes I saw, as you said, famous actors did appear in each episodes! Interesting.Also interesting is as has been written in the Cushman book, Desilu needed TV shows to be made. So it's also no surprise that MeTV is showing so many Desilu shows, many CBS owned series of course. So perhaps all these shows with the same living room set were filmed at Desilu studios. But perhaps they were of similar layout? If My Three Sons and Donna Reed and I Dream of Jeannie used the same set, that would be a trick considering they were made at similar times? I'll have to look up production dates. Of course My Three Sons changed houses, I looked it up, after it ran on ABC, it went to CBS in 1966, and in color. Colombo is on now with Jackie Cooper and Joanne Linville! The Romulan Commnader married to Perry White? So are you doing this Leslie Parrish marathon with DVDs or on YouTube? I didn't know so many of her credits are available to be seen. I know of The Manchurian Candidate, that infamous Mannix appearance with the same William Ware Costume from Who Mourns.Regarding MacMurrey, I think I read the same thing, he planned it so he could have the time to really pursue his passion for golf. Or some other sport. Must have made it hard for the other actors!

 

[FanCollector]

Candidate for Crime! "I couldn't figure out what in the hell you were doing in here." Great final clue.Burke's Law generally went higher up the guest star food chain than Star Trek did, but there were so many guests in each episode, we might find a sevener...Is Remington also running on ME-TV? Our local affiliate only airs the ME stuff for part of the day, so I don't get all of their programming. The episode is "Cast in Steele" from the early part of the third year if you are looking for it in the rotation.Yes, I've been enjoying Ms. Parrish on DVD. I had watched The Manchurian Candidate about two months ago anyway, so I didn't rewatch it this week. I have about 20 of her appearances besides that one. I noticed that she made a lot of repeat appearances on shows in different roles. The producers must have liked her work. For example, she did the Mannix you cited and then came back to do two others.Desilu was interesting because the studio space was much bigger than the studio. So there were tons of shows that filmed there despite having no business connection to Desilu Studios apart from being tenants. All the Danny Thomas/Sheldon Leonard stuff (Andy Griffith, Dick Van Dyke, I Spy, etc) filmed there for example. I think Lucy needed to have some shows that weren't The Lucy Show so that Desilu didn't just become the biggest landlord in Hollywood. I think My Three Sons filmed there because Bill Frawley used to play tricks on Vivian Vance when she was filming with Lucy. But Jeannie was a Screen Gems show so it was probably filmed at Columbia. I don't know where they made Donna Reed.

 

[FanCollector]

I just looked it up. Donna Reed was at Columbia also, so they may well have reused those sets or exteriors on Jeannie.

 

[Nelson Au]

Lee, you sure know your classic TV!I found similar information, there is a street in the Burbank studios where all the houses are located where they filmed the exteriors of the houses for Jeannie, Bewitched, Partridge Family and other projects. Very similar it seems to Forty Acres where Mayberry, Gomer Pyle etc is filmed, and Miri, Archons and City on the Edge of course! I was reading up a bit on the My Three Sons wiki. I didn't know William Frawley was on that series before Demarest! And they fired him because of his health. That's unfortunate.My MeTV affiliate has been advertising the new fall schedule and Remington Steele is going to be part of the line up. They seem to air MeTV programing most of the day and evening everyday. It's on the channel's secondary channel. I guess they can afford to fill air time on that channel with their material. It's amazing there is enough shows to run all those hours. Perhaps not so surprisingly, I've seen others discuss similarly the number of TOS guest stars appearing on those other series because of MeTV on other Star Trek and non Star Trek forums that I pop into occasionally.And you know your Columbo! That was a great clue!

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,There is no question that Lee knows his Columbo. In fact, "He is good. Almost as good as me." [and] "If I'd have been there, I would have won." Now, if either of you can name the series from which I just quoted, I will be shocked! (It is non-Trek related.) By the way, any poster can play this game if they wish.

 

[bryan4999]

On an unrelated note on a subject we've discussed, I often have MeTV on these days while doing house chores. last week they did a mini Burke's Law marathon. I noticed so many TOS guest stars. Of note was Susan Oliver.

This week, they are doing My Three Son's. A show I've not seen in ages. I didn't realize Fred MacMurray's character was so straight laced and idealized. Anyway, an episode had Leslie Parrish appear as a dancer at a bachelor party. And feeling very uncomfortable at the unexpected turn, he sneaks out of the party. It's raided and she gets out of the hotel room and asked Fred for help, who resists at first, but helps and she turns out to be a very nice girl who just had been out of work and did that dance gig out of desperation. As usual, a nicely done episode and ends with an uplifting note. Nice to see her do so many guest star appearances at that time.

That house set looks like they re-used it for Donna Reed and I Dream of Jeannie.

I watched that show all the time as a kid and when I saw THE APARTMENT for the first time (on the Channel 7 3:30 movie) I was shocked at what a rat he was in that movie!

 

[bryan4999]

Lee, you sure know your classic TV!

I found similar information, there is a street in the Burbank studios where all the houses are located where they filmed the exteriors of the houses for Jeannie, Bewitched, Partridge Family and other projects.

Very similar it seems to Forty Acres where Mayberry, Gomer Pyle etc is filmed, and Miri, Archons and City on the Edge of course!

I was reading up a bit on the My Three Sons wiki. I didn't know William Frawley was on that series before Demarest! And they fired him because of his health. That's unfortunate.

My MeTV affiliate has been advertising the new fall schedule and Remington Steele is going to be part of the line up. They seem to air MeTV programing most of the day and evening everyday. It's on the channel's secondary channel. I guess they can afford to fill air time on that channel with their material. It's amazing there is enough shows to run all those hours.

Perhaps not so surprisingly, I've seen others discuss similarly the number of TOS guest stars appearing on those other series because of MeTV on other Star Trek and non Star Trek forums that I pop into occasionally.

And you know your Columbo! That was a great clue!

The Columbia Ranch, now called the Warner Ranch, is actually a stand-alone lot near Warner Bros. That lot contains the fountain shown in the beginning of FRIENDS, and is the same fountain where they filmed the "Lees of Old Virginia" number in the movie version of 1776. I heard that "Boston Street", which stood in for Philadelphia in 1776, burned down at some point, but the sit-com houses and the park with the fountain (which can be seen in many eps of Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, Partridge Family, etc) is still there and in use. I saw a commercial the other day and I could absolutely recognize the ranch. If you google it, there are some websites with lots of great pics.

 

[Nelson Au]

Great info Bryan! There's a website, I think called 1146 Morning Glory. That has a lot of nice info on the lot. A lot of like minded fans of those series filmed there! I didn't know that about the fountain. I'll have to look for it now. It also cool to see another familiar small town square used for Back to the Future used in the pilot episode of The Twilight Zone! They were quite good at reusing the same standing exterior sets and redressing them per each production. Scott, Lee, is there a Colombo thread here you guys participate in? Reminds me of the Odd Couple where Murry asks Oscar, "Do I look like Colombo?" And Oscar: "You look more like Dumbo!"

 

[bryan4999]

Great info Bryan!

There's a website, I think called 1146 Morning Glory. That has a lot of nice info on the lot. A lot of like minded fans of those series filmed there! I didn't know that about the fountain. I'll have to look for it now.

It also cool to see another familiar small town square used for Back to the Future used in the pilot episode of The Twilight Zone!

They were quite good at reusing the same standing exterior sets and redressing them per each production.

Scott, Lee, is there a Colombo thread here you guys participate in? Reminds me of the Odd Couple where Murry asks Oscar, "Do I look like Colombo?" And Oscar: "You look more like Dumbo!"

That is so true. There is an episode of Bewitched where they go to Salem, MA, and they used the Boston street. The funny thing is, you could see the fountain in the park, and if they had nudged the camera just a tiny bit to the right you would have been able to see their house all the way back in Westport! Besides the fountain, there is a swimming pool that was redressed as everything from a country club to a secluded Puerto Rican resort in The Flying Nun. I also enjoy the Halloween episodes of Bewitched when they go trick-or-treating and the Partridge house and others are so recognizable. Fun stuff that I noticed even as a kid.

And Star Trek used Paramount's New York street many times, which is recognizable in many other shows and commercials. I noticed that for some higher budget movies filmed at Paramount they matted in higher tops to the buildings, which I guess they couldn't afford for Star Trek.

 

[Ockeghem]

Scott, Lee, is there a Colombo thread here you guys participate in? Reminds me of the Odd Couple where Murry asks Oscar, "Do I look like Colombo?" And Oscar: "You look more like Dumbo!"

Nelson,There may be a thread, but other than a passing reference or two, I don't believe Lee and I have actively participated in it (like we do in this thread, for example).

 

[FanCollector]

I was going to add that the Columbia lot was sold or merged when the studios realized that alas the land was probably worth more than the movies and that audiences expected more location shooting, but Bryan is way ahead of me with a lot more interesting history.They really fired Frawley? I always just thought he died. Sadder that they fired him. These subchannels are great because they are the only place a lot of these great old shows are running now. Glad Remington Steele will be joining the lineup. The fact that it was so consciously retro has prevented it from becoming dated in the same way that some of its unofficial progeny has.Is there a Columbo thread? I just searched but only found reviews of some DVD sets. Scott, I am intrigued by your challenge. I will work on it.

 

[Ockeghem]

"Scott, I am intrigued by your challenge. I will work on it."Lee,

Great! I won't give any hints unless someone asks me to, at which point I will try my best not to give it away too quickly.