S&V tests the Marantz SR7200 (1 Viewer)

[Jim_T]

Okay, I guess it's my turn to add to this hugely long thread. I just recently received my Marantz PS7200 receiver. Yes, that's right, PS - I'm in Japan and the model sold here is exactly the same as the SP7200 except that it's missing the tuner (and sells for about $490, in case you're interested). I've done what tests I could with the limited equipment I have, and have discovered:
- hiss in all speakers when above 0dB using analog inputs from my JVC XV-S65 DVD/CD player, when in a surround mode. The hiss is limited to the two mains when in two channel stereo, and disappears entirely when a digital input in used.
- the clicking or dropouts mentioned previously are apparent between most tracks on most CDs, using either digital input. Analog inputs, either regular or source direct, do not have this problem.
- I just got my whole system, and so I haven't really checked anything with regard to DVD playback, including the S-video connection, as I have an old TV without S-video inputs.
In case anyone cares, my serial number is MZ000137000064 and the unit was made in Korea.
As I live in an apartment, there's no way I could ever approach the 0dB level when playing music, and as far as DVDs go, I don't think I'll hear any hiss when using the digital inputs. The clicks between tracks on CDs bothers me, though, and I'll be writing the Marantz rep shortly to inquire about it. As of right now, I'm not sure when I'll be able to test the S-video, but my next TV purchase will no doubt have component video connections, so even that's not a great worry to me. Overall, I'm fairly pleased, and am definitely glad I bought the Marantz.
Jim

 

[derek fong]

After finally getting off my butt and getting registered, i thought i'd chime in on this interesting thread.
i recently purchased a Marantz SR-7200 from Reliable Audio Video for a great price of $594. i bought the unit based on previous auditioning of the Marantz SR-7000 a while back which IMHO, blew away the competition in terms of musicality in 2 channel stereo mode (i looked at and listened to Harmon Kardon, Yamaha, Denon, Sony ES).
Background: i consider myself an audiophile and i have a 2 channel setup upstairs that cost nearly 10k...i wanted to build a reasonable second system in the living room that would function for casual listening and work as a home theater.
Cutting to the chase:
- serial number is 133002071 and is made in Korea. i address each of the "discussed problems" below:
- i *do* note an occasional delay in switching of the audio as some have suggested. its only occasional, but definitely noticeable on one scene on the recent Terminator DVD release. a little annoying, but since i've only had it "intrude" on the sound during that one incidence, i'm not too concerned. other incidences have been at the "intro of a DVD" which isn't a big deal to me. the delay is negligible on a CD player hooked up via coax; but i've since chosen to run analog direct since the DACs in my Parasound (Burr Brown) unit sound better than those in the Marantz. (or perhaps its all the other digital circuitry mucking with the sound?)
- i do not observe any S-Video switching problems. i specifically looked for this using some cheap cables and didn't notice any obvious problems. although i admit, i only checked to see if there was a major problem since i run all my video directly to the TV itself (component for the DVD and S-video for my DSS).
- no noise whatsoever in the rear channels in direct stereo mode, and noise in the fronts at +0 db and up if i'm within 2 inches of the speakers. (this seems pretty normal to me although i must also note that my Creek amp is dead silent with the volume pot turned all the way up...but this is unusual as i've heard even Krell's have noise at "full volume.")
- in surround modes: noise present in all channels, but again only above +0 db, but nothing like people have described...ie, it is not noticeable from the listening position unless i'm focusing for it and the volume is at +10 db.
- power for stereo: as noted, it has gobs of juice for two channel mode. i never exceed -20 db for music in two channel mode as it is very loud (this is a 16x12 room which is very open (ie, it opens into a staircase and the kitchen/dining room).
- power for 5 channel: plenty sufficient. again, i never exceed -10 db (although i used it at -5 db for Phantom Menace since it seemed recorded a little lighter on the dialog) and peaks are near painful.
is it operating according to spec? who knows? i would guess that i would be hard pressed to decide whether it was putting out 30 versus 60 W before clipping just judging by ear. although i found the S&V figures a bit disappointing, i don't think anyone can refute them unless they have the proper testing gear since a factor of 2 in power is not really noticeable in loudness (only 3 db). ie, i wouldn't be surprised to find that S&V's figures were either correct or incorrect...although my suspicion is that the truth is the Marantz performs somewhere between the range of 27 W/ch and 105 W/ch. i'm pretty sure that no $600 receiver can put at over 100 W/ch into 5/6 channels simultaneously...that would defy the laws of physics and economics.
ASIDE: as has been noted before, not all Watts are created equal. i tried this baby out on my Magnepan speakers and while it sounded fine and had plenty of oomph, it didn't sound as effortless as my creek amp which is rated at 90 W/ch into 8 ohms and 165 W/ch into 4 ohms. (the speakers are 4 ohm). i could easily get deafening volumes with the Marantz, but it didn't sound even close to as good as my Creek amp. (then again, i wouldn't expect any receiver to either)
Am i happy with my choice? you bet. i still stand by the fact that it is the most musical of the "mid-fi receivers" i've listened to. [btw, i'm driving Gallo Nucleus micro speakers) it is great in 2 channel mode (not as good as my expensive rig, but better than any other mid-fi receiver i've auditioned) and has more than enough juice to drive my system in home theater mode. the remote is nicer than most, but still has its problems (like not backlit LCD).
anyway, do i have a flawed unit? i don't think so, unless i count the digital audio source switching a problem. it is a minor one that i've observed on other receivers as well. (sony ES at least)...i doubt it's a "bug in my setup" but rather a design flaw with the muting circuitry when the source is being switched.
again, my serial number begins with 133 so perhaps that's why i don't have the ambient noise or S-video problems. again, i can't confirm or refute the "lack of power" except by saying in my case that there is plenty there for my uses.
regards, Derek

 

[MatthewJ S]

charles- congats., good move, good luck
yoon, It has been my finding after years of experiance that there is no correlation between where the units are made but rather who is making them that counts....It seems to me far more important that the company involved not farm out mnfgrng to other un-named co.'s whose name doesn't appear on the unit......most of the "dirty" work is done by machines and unskilled labor ...be it japanese unskilled or korean unskilled...to believe there is a differance is racist

 

[Jeff D.]

Official Response from Marantz Regarding the Sound & Vision Review of the SR-7200
I have included below, a complete transcript of the "Q&A" response from Marantz regarding the S&V review of their SR-7200. This is the official response being sent out to Marantz dealers.
I will take a few moments to note that this appears to be a very fair response. Careful reading will see Marantz admit that they are "not perfect" - referring to the ability for faulty units to slip through QC. Also, I challenge _anyone_ to find me a brand that has not had QC issues at one time or another. It happens to everyone. A simple fact: anything man-made can break down at any given time. Also, Marantz admits they were "remiss" in not responding to the situation sooner.
I was involved in this thread in its first days and it may have appeared that I was completely defending Marantz. Anyone who takes the time to read my posts will see that was not the case. I acknowledged there could be a problem and further to that, Marantz should be taken to task for it if there is a problem. However, it seemed more appropriate that S&V should be taken to task for not consulting with Marantz regarding the poor results of the unit in question on the test bench.
I personally have tested over 8 models (both 7200 and 6200) and only came across one with an S-Video problem - all others performed flawlessly in all respects. I do not deny that some people have had problems with their units. On the other hand - complaining of "slight" noise when the volume is maxed and with one's ear pressed to the tweeter is NOT a valid complaint. Listen to music at normal volume levels and tell me if you hear hiss (yes, someone did report this and I am not disputing that person's claim).
The simple fact of the matter (highlighted in this Marantz response) is that one should not use reviews as the basis for their purchasing decisions. The current crop of Marantz receivers are fine-sounding products, with good ergonomics and cosmetics and featuring some of the latest advances, including Dolby Pro-Logic II. Let your ears be the judge. If they sound good to you - then they are good. If you don't like the sound, then that is your fair call. But don't let reviews be your one and only guide.
Now, the full response:
SR7200 Review Sound &Vision Q&A
Q: Was the unit reviewed defective?
A: Yes, the unit reviewed was defective.
Q: What's the power output of the SR-7200?
A: The power rating is 105 watts per channel. That means that any channel will put out 105 watts. Typically, in a real life music or home theater situation, the same signal is not sent to six channels at the same time. With all six channels driven simultaneously, the SR-7200 should put out 70 watts to each channel.
**My own note here regarding power output: NOWHERE in the Marantz literature does it state that the 105 watt rating is all channels driven. Therefore, it is UNFAIR to take them to task for this - they are not misrepresenting the situation. Now, SHOULD they provide an all channels driven spec? Perhaps that could be argued. But the simple FACT is that they never claimed it would deliver 105 watts with all channels driven, so there are NO valid complaints here.**
Q: Is Marantz generally overrating power?
A: Marantz is not overrating power. If you look at past models it should be apparent that we are generally conservative in ratings.
Q: Does Marantz do quality control tests before products leave the factory?
A: Yes, all products are tested before they leave the factory. Marantz America also performs random testing. The reviewed unit was a pre-production model.
Q: So, what's the story behind this review?
A: The review was an anomaly. The tested unit was defective. Its performance was not measured before submission due to the eagerness of the reviewer. The reviewer chose not to contact us with his unusual findings and we were remiss in contacting him.
Q: Are there products like this sold into the market?
A: Marantz is not perfect. However, the performance and sales response to the SR-7200 has not only been phenomenal, but record setting. If the real world performance was not superb, this many units would not be sold.
Q: Is the quality of products from Korea and China inferior?
A: The company or manufacturer should not influence the product quality. All units are designed in/by Marantz Japan and could be made in Japan, Taiwan, Korea and Singapore.
Q: I bought an SR-7200, I want to know what the story behind this review is.
A: Expect outstanding performance from the SR-7200. As with any purchase, your own personal experience with the product, and with the dealer, should be the final determining factor. We are confident you will enjoy this product.
Q: What will Marantz do after this review?
A: Marantz will not get into a public war of words with the reviewer. We know the product is strong enough to stand on its own merit. A follow-up review is planned by a different reviewer and we are confident that the outcome will be favourable.
----
Jeff
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"They're coming to get you Barbara..."

 

[Lewis Besze]

A follow-up review is planned by a different reviewer and we are confident that the outcome will be favourable.

This is however a mistake on Marantz's part.
It's obvious that S&V should receive another receiver,[preferably from one of the dealers shelf],and re do the test,in that way both parties would be "cleard" from any
"wrong doing",and could put this matter to rest.
However if another magazine[which other publish it's own measured data?],gets the "job",then it could create a backlash for S&V,as they did something wrong,with the test.
Yes I agree that S&V should have contacted Marantz upon it's rather unusual findings,however that doesn't clear Marantz from checking the unit before sending it out.
I think that both parties at fault,and they should work togheter to smooth things out,instead of pointing fingers.
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"You Hungarians always disagree"

 

[Chris PC]

The power rating makes sense. In the owners manual for my SR 6200, the specifications state "105 watts per channel, channels driven in pairs". If the receiver does in fact put out 70 watts x 6, then that makes total sense in terms of what is possible and what other comparable receivers deliver. 70 watts x 6 equals 420 watts. The SR 6200 is rated to draw a maximum average of 3.9 amps. 3.9 amps x 120 volts equals 468 watts. The receiver could draw about 48 watts disregarding speaker output. That makes sense.
My speakers are rated at 6 ohms with a minimum of 5 ohms. What I would like to know, is what the power output of the receiver is into 4 ohm speaker loads 2 channels driven simulaneously and/or 6 channels driven, although the receiver is really not meant to drive six 4 ohm speakers. I would be curious to see if the power goes up a bit or stays the same, or decreases with higher current demand. This would be a good indication of performance, besides just a raw wattage rating. Regardless, I am not overly concerned with the power ratings. My concerns were with the noise I was hearing.
Where was that "Official" response taken from? I understand you say it was sent to the dealers, did you actually get a copy from a store?
[Edited last by Chris PC on November 03, 2001 at 03:36 PM]

 

[Dennis B]

I also have a 7200 whose p/n is 129001000 and after reading all this I tested it searching for the problems that were mentioned above, since I thought that mine, being in the 129 series, would also be bad, but so far I couldn't reproduce any of the problems. Lucky, I guess.
Nevertheless I'd really like Marantz to track these problems down and publish the p/n range that was or might be defective to keep us from "hearing things"...

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[Jeff D.]

Where was that "Official" response taken from? I understand you say it was sent to the dealers, did you actually get a copy from a store?

I work for a Marantz dealer and I was keen to get an "official" response from Marantz. As soon it was available, I published it in its entirety in this thread.
In regards to earlier comments, the unit sent from Marantz was a pre-production model. The ball was firmly in S&V's court - they should have contacted Marantz as soon as they were aware of the SR-7200's poor performance. They didn't do that and they should be held accountable. PERIOD.
----
Jeff
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"They're coming to get you Barbara..."

 

[Chris PC]

That is true about S & V's accountability. It is true that Marantz should have checked the unit more thoroughly before sending it to Marantz, but come on! It was a pre-production unit and I'm sure other companies have sent faulty units of all kinds of equipment to reviewers before. The bad luck in this case is in no way even indicative of Marantz Quality Control. My receiver, and the other Marantz owners here, however, who have the video and audio noise, can be a reflection of Marantz's poor quality control for this instance alone. The internet hasn't had these types of forums for like 20 years, and I'm sure new products from other manufacturers have been sent out with defects before, its just that now we are all on here together and it seems like a significant number. Without knowing the total number of Marantz SR x200 units sold with defects out of the total units sold, we are only guessing that the problem is significant. I will only be disappointed if my unit comes back faulty from repair at one of (if not the only) Canadian Marantz distributor.
Jeff Kowerchuk,
What is the center frequency for the BASS control of the Marantz Sr 6200?
The Marantz SR 6200 bass control boosts bass up to 6dB. Is it possible you could find out what the center frequency is for the SR 6200 BASS control? Just curious because my old technics boosted BASS control at a center frequency of 50 hz up to 10 dB. 10 dB's is really too high. I find that 4dB on the technics is adequate and more BASS boost than that sounds poor, so the max of 6dB on the Marantz is more than adequate and likely prevents the over eager bass lovers from blowing things up I often like higher bass levels though, especially when listening at lower volume levels, I kinda act like my own loudness control if you like.So any idea what the center freq is for the bass control?

 

[ChrisVenaccio]

ChrisPC,
I owned (yep, past tense) as Marantz SR7200. As I mentioned before, I suffered the digital dropout disease as well on both the toslink and the coaxial digital connections. I tried an older Sony CD player and the Marantz CC4000OSE and had the same results. I returned it and went to another dealer to examine another 7200. It did the exact same thing with the digital connections, so it seems to be an issue with the 7200 or the X200 series. My solution was to buy the Integra 6.2 for the same price.
I really wanted to buy a Marantz and I loved the look and sound of the unit, but the digital dropouts were completely unacceptable. I called them up and they said I was the first person to call on this issue and it's the first time they've heard about it. The dealer who sole me the Integra actually suggested the 7200 to me originally. I told him to try the digital connections and get some CD's. It popped an about 95% of the CD's when it hit the track marker. He was actually suprised and a bit disappointed in the 7200 after that.
Everyone has their Edsel...

 

[Chris PC]

Thats crappy, because thats going to be the breaker for me. If it still does that when I get it back, I'll have to decide whether to use the DVD players DAC's for CD playback, and use the analog outputs and RCA's for CD playback, which would solve the problem all together. Maybe wait until next year and upgrade then if I am still not happy? .... or trade it back in now for an Integra or something else. I really want DPL II and 6.1 would be cool. NAD has no DPL II right now and Onkyo/Integra don't seem to have 6.1 yet?
Anyways...I'll see. So how do you like your Integra now? No drop outs, right? What about general performance otherwise?
[Edited last by Chris PC on November 04, 2001 at 11:25 PM]

 

[Lewis Besze]

They didn't do that and they should be held accountable. PERIOD.

And how do you propose to do that?
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"You Hungarians always disagree"

 

[Chris PC]

Well, he didn't say HE would hold them accountable, but I think if I was Marantz, I would want to hold Sound & Vision accountable for their less than professional procedure. I'd simply contact them and express my disatisfaction and discuss S & V printing a retraction or "second look review". Its up to S & V what to do in response. Is Marantz going to sue S & V? I'm not sure if that would help them. the least S & V should do is report in their next issue that the model they tested was defective after retesting another unit in their lab.
[Edited last by Chris PC on November 04, 2001 at 11:30 PM]

 

[Jeff D.]

quote: And how do you propose to do that?[/quote]
Umm, by contacting Sound & Vision and letting them know that they have just lost A LOT of credibility by posting such a childish review.
By educating people that this is not how a reputable magazine conducts business. Of course, if we have people littering the internet who bow to the altar of Sound & Vision, then it may be a difficult task.
Once again it is this bizarre and inappropriate attitude that boggles my mind.
I'll reiterate once more, since obviously something is not getting across here.
The facts:
1. Sound & Vision has reviewed Marantz products before (the most recent receivers being the SR-18 and SR-7000, both of which received glowing reviews) and knows the company's reputation for high-quality electronics gear.
2. Sound & Vision is extremely anxious to review the latest offerings in the form of the SR-7200.
3. Marantz obliges with a PRE-PRODUCTION sample.
4. Sound & Vision tests the unit and finds several problems, including noise problems and significant power rating disputes.
5. Despite the fact Sound & Vision is well aware of Marantz's sterling reputation, they decide NOT to contact the company to discuss their findings. Instead, they publish the review, denouncing a product based on the results of a PRE-PRODUCTION unit (not mentioned in the review).
So when will you get this - Sound & Vision should have contacted Marantz to discuss the situation. If it turned out that the review sample was representative of the entire line, then so be it. That would be Marantz's bad fortune. But they did not do that. Now Marantz could be losing a lot of business because of this immature review.
----
Jeff
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"They're coming to get you Barbara..."
[Edited last by Jeff Kowerchuk on November 05, 2001 at 12:13 AM]

 

[Lewis Besze]

Chris,I agree,however
Marantz already said it in the "official response",that they will choose another magazine to do the new review,and they won't engage in any puplic argument with S&V.This is a mistake,and very immature IMO,here is why!
The so called second review will be like a "second opinion",and may or may not even address the problem in hand[noise,and power issues].So the many people who posted in this thread,who experinced any problem will not get any answers,they will get another review which according to Marantz will be "favourable".Since Audio is gone I really don't know which magazine could produce a review like S&V who publish their own measurments,and not repeat the manufacturer's specs.
I don't think that the ball is in S&V court yet.
First Marantz should write an open letter to S&V[which should be published in the magazine]and demand an explanation why they were not informed,about the "unusual findings" about the 7200,before the review was published,then the ball would be in their court,and better have a good "come back"[which they won't]. Then S&V should ask for a chance to do a re review[test]on a production model,and if everything is like Marantz claims[or close to it],then the claim of the previous model being defective can be validated,and S&V should issue an apology,for not being forthcoming with Marantz.This is what I would do if I was for Marantz.
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"You Hungarians always disagree"
[Edited last by Lewis Besze on November 05, 2001 at 01:01 AM]

 

[Lewis Besze]

Jeff,you are continiously attacking me on a personal level,by accusing me with things,that I'm not nor I represent.I'm a consumer not an employee of Marantz[or it's dealer's],nor S&V,no AFFILIATION what so ever.
We have a differences of opinions here,in case you haven't noticed,and that's all.I'll live knowing that you disagree,belive me!
I'm only interested on the issue in hand,and I suggest you stick to that too!
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"You Hungarians always disagree"

 

[Mike Knapp]

A follow-up review is planned by a different reviewer and we are confident that the outcome will be favourable

It says they will use another reviewer...not another publication.
Mike

 

[Jeff D.]

Lewis:
The reason I will continue this argument is because your attitude (apparently the lone one in this thread) is destructive to the reputation of a company and its products.
Your opinion is wrong, plain and simple. Sound & Vision was given a preproduction sample, yet they did not mention that in the review. That's like a computer magazine evaluating beta versions of software and complaining because it was buggy.
THE BALL IS NOT IN MARANTZ'S COURT. That is an ignorant assumption. Sound & Vision knew about the poor results before Marantz did. THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONTACTED BEFORE PUBLICATION.
The damage is done now. No matter what the response is from Marantz, a significant amount of damage will have already been done.
This thread started by you Lewis, continually chiming in about Marantz being "immature" etc. is only supporting the Sound & Vision article - which is a a very poor product from a magazine that considers itself professional.
You are attacking the reputation of a well-respected company on a forum read by thousands of people. That is extremely childish and rude.
----
Jeff
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"They're coming to get you Barbara..."

 

[ChrisVenaccio]

ChrisPC,
Yep, going analog would solve the problem. However, I have an old Sony CD player and an old Sony DVD plaver. I was buying the Marantz for the better DAC's and the multichannel inputs for SACD or DVD-Audio. By circumventing the popping by going analog constrains me to the inferior DAC's unless I upgrade my DVD and CD player. It was like paying for a feature I couldn't use and having to acquiesce to Marantz shortcomings. It's like buying a new car with a speedometer that squeeks and saying 'oh well, I can just turn up the radio'. For the money you're spending accept no popping. Since this is the first Marantz has heard of the issue, I really didn't want to be stuck with a unit that may or may not get fixed within an acceptible time frame.
The Integra 6.2 (I think I typed 6.1 earlier by accident) has DPL2 but not 6.1. The is no popping. Since I am not doing an A/B comparison to the 7200, I can't be exact on the differences. I liked the Circle Surround on the Marantz better than DPL2 and I think the DPL2 on the Marantz sounded better than the DPL2 on the Integra. I definitely prefer the looks of the Marantz than the Integra. Other than that, the Integra is a good solid unit for the money and I am happy with it.
If you definitely need DPL2 and 6.1, I would either wait to see what 2002 has in store or look at the Denon 2802 or something like that.

 

[Bob_M]

>1. Sound & Vision has reviewed Marantz products before (the most recent receivers being the SR-18 and SR-7000, both of which received glowing reviews) and knows the company's reputation for high-quality electronics gear.<
I don't remember S&V doing a review on the SR-7000. do you know which Month/year this was done?
I would also like to read Sound & Vision side to all of this. I guess we will find out next month.
thanks bob