RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu? (1 Viewer)

[Tony Bensley]

The version that TCM shows doesn't look so bad; if they don't intend to give us anything, why not a WAC DVD? I suppose that's part of the reason why I've continued to hang onto the hope that a future restoration is still a possibility.

When I saw that print several years back, I thought it looked decent enough. In my opinion, unless Warner has a 65/70mm complete print that they're secretly working on, I believe they should assemble a MOD DVD, using the best elements currently available!

I think RAINTREE COUNTY has been stuck in that proverbial "There's a restoration/release just around the corner, soon!" loop long enough! It's about time Warner makes the best release out of whatever elements they have, or at least can readily access!

CHEERS!

 

[OliverK]

Imo what they aired on TCM HD looked good enough to tide most of us over until there is a proper HD release.
Bringing out "only" a WAC DVD of a higher profile large format movie like Raintree County would be extremely disappointing because at that point I would believe that we won't get anything else for a loooong time.

 

[Robin9]

I suspect this has been discussed before, but couldn't The Warner Archive just issue a "Warts And All" MOD DVD-R so the fans of this Film have something other than cheap DVD knock-offs? Surely, almost anything has to be better than nothing at this stage?

Just my opinion!

CHEERS!

It has been suggested and discussed before, but strangely the idea did not arouse much enthusiasm. To me, it's a no-brainer to release on MOD what most people who've seen it regard as acceptable. If Warner did put out a DVD-R, that would not prevent them releasing a Blu-ray disc if they ever did restore the film properly.

 

[Konstantinos]

Honestly I don't care so much about dust, specs etc. here and there, or 2nd-3rd generation grain so I'm not dying for a full blown restoration (in comparison to having nothing at all).
I would be very content with an HD scan of a print, that resolves whatever grain there is beautifully, and put on a Bluray.
Also, it's the general release I've only seen, so I would be content just with that too.

the things that irritate me the most in Blurays (and I don't support such releases) are:
- Degraining (even in animation)
- revisionistic colors and very specific tints (teal, yellow, blue etc.) when added later and don't reflect the original film
- remixes that add/alter effects of the original mix

other than that, if a bluray looks decent, I'm pretty happy.

 

[Dr Griffin]

WAC seems to be particular of the quality of the Archive BDs. What they have must not meet the minimum. Maybe Twilight Time could get it and do a Hawaii, with the General Release in HD and the roadshow in SD from the VHS master.

 

[OliverK]

WAC seems to be particular of the quality of the Archive BDs. What they have must not meet the minimum. Maybe Twilight Time could get it and do a Hawaii, with the General Release in HD and the roadshow in SD from the VHS master.

I think that Warner doesn't have anything HD from Raintree County. Not that they would lend it out if they had, look at Ryan's Daughter or Cheyenne Autumn for example.

As I said before a low cost 4k OCN scan can be had for a relatively modest amount so money would not necessarily have to be the problem even when bringing this out in 4k but from previous projects it seems that Warner rightfully thinks that they also shoulöd create new archival film elements and then there is the question of what to do about the Roadshow footage and if the negative is in decent mechanical shape - it is complicated.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

As I said before a low cost 4k OCN scan can be had for a relatively modest amount so money would not necessarily have to be the problem even when bringing this out in 4k but from previous projects it seems that Warner rightfully thinks that they also shoulöd create new archival film elements and then there is the question of what to do about the Roadshow footage and if the negative is in decent mechanical shape - it is complicated.

This may be a dumb question, but do you know if creating new archival film elements is something that WB is going to have to do down the line for Raintree? This isn't an Alamo situation (or has the potential to be), is it?

 

[Allansfirebird]

Imo what they aired on TCM HD looked good enough to tide most of us over until there is a proper HD release.
Bringing out "only" a WAC DVD of a higher profile large format movie like Raintree County would be extremely disappointing because at that point I would believe that we won't get anything else for a loooong time.

Honest question, but is Raintree County really that high profile? It was a box-office flop when it came out in 1957, and I don't think it's ever been notable except for being the first Ultra Panavision movie, and because of Monty Clift's accident. Outside of the devotees (including myself) on this forum, does the movie have enough of a fanbase that could justify the multi-million dollar restoration expense from WHV?

This is not to say that Raintree County doesn't deserve being preserved, I just wanted to get some context and perspective.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Honest question, but is Raintree County really that high profile? It was a box-office flop when it came out in 1957, and I don't think it's ever been notable except for being the first Ultra Panavision movie, and because of Monty Clift's accident. Outside of the devotees (including myself) on this forum, does the movie have enough of a fanbase that could justify the multi-million dollar restoration expense from WHV?

This is not to say that Raintree County doesn't deserve being preserved, I just wanted to get some context and perspective.

I believe another good question is just how long is it worth waiting for "Pristine Film Elements" to fall out of the sky for this Film? Back in 2012, I posed this same question on the Bowery Boys Topic, where much discussion centered around missing 35 mm film elements for MR. HEX (1946), the one Bowerys Boys Feature (Out of 48!) that seemed to hold up any DVD release of that series for years. When the final Volume 4 set was finally issued in the late summer of 2014, the issued print transfer of MR. HEX utilized 16mm gauge film for most of the first two reels.

The point I'm attempting to make is eventually, The Warner Archive had to abandon the idea of issuing a complete 35mm transfer of that one film! Perhaps it's time they give the same consideration for RAINTREE COUNTY?

CHEERS!

 

[Dr Griffin]

Raintree County involves high costs, and heavy lifting. The elements of the long version only survive in low resolution video. The film is a huge cost vs. sales problem. WB should at least be able to break even.

All 65mm anamorphic, six-track stereo, faded… The list on the negative sides goes on.

Because one sees something on TCM, doesn't mean that elements survive.

RAH

Long or short version. Many of the same problems. Very expensive restoration.

RAH

It could.

If someone would lend them an HDCAMSR master.

No problem.

The same query keeps appearing in this thread.

Who, here, is funding the restoration?

Please stand, and we'll get it moving.

I can get you a budget by end of day, and Mr. Price
can begin moving elements and prepping.

It's easy.

Anyone?

RAH

RAINTREE COUNTY


This would be a huge restoration, which would probably take decades to recoup.


Seven figures. Easily.


For the short version.


Afaik, the long version only survives in totally faded 35mm prints. Color that existed when the original video was produced, is no more, and I believe all that was extracted was a 4:3 image.


Make no mistake. This can be done.


For the marketplace, let's use 3,000 copies.


How many will sign up at $450 per unit?


I wouldn't bother voting on TCM.


RAH

Two problems. The OCN and masters were cut to conform to the short version, and trims junked.


Faded.


RAH

For those that may have forgotten, here are some of RAH's quotes from this thread. 7 figures! Not lookin' too good.

 

[Konstantinos]

Ok, yes, but not all films have been released with an a la Spartacus restoration, have they?
So, why do we have to wait for a pristine restoration for the film to be released, if ever?
My point is, as I had said in the past, I would be very very happy with a Bluray that resembled The Greatest Story ever told. (i always take that as an example because it came with the "available best elements" disclaimer.

here's some screenshots of it:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Greatest-Story-Ever-Told-Blu-ray/20494/#Screenshots

i think a such kind of transfer of Raintree County on Bluray IS (or could be) possible without having to use millions, isn't it?

 

[Dr Griffin]

Ok, yes, but not all films have been released with an a la Spartacus restoration, have they?
So, why do we have to wait for a pristine restoration for the film to be released, if ever?
My point is, as I had said in the past, I would be very very happy with a Bluray that resembled The Greatest Story ever told. (i always take that as an example because it came with the "available best elements" disclaimer.

here's some screenshots of it:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Greatest-Story-Ever-Told-Blu-ray/20494/#Screenshots

Maybe I would too. Why haven't we seen such a release by now then?

 

[Konstantinos]

Why haven't we seen such a release by now then?

Who knows..
After all there are dozens of other Warner films that are even more famous (and I believe they would be more profitable - Errol Flynn classics anyone?) than Raintree County and haven't been released yet.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Apparently this couldn't even be done in DVD's heyday. By now, as RAH has indicated, it is a monumental undertaking. It may have to wait for cheaper technology if it ever comes along. Until such a time, we wait...

 

[Konstantinos]

I think that TCM broadcast, was very much suitable for DVD standards.
There are WAC DVDs that look much worse.
So, I can't find any excuse for the absence of even an official DVD release.

 

[Dr Griffin]

I agree. I have it on my DVR from a couple years ago, and I'm hanging on to it.

 

[Robin9]

I think that TCM broadcast, was very much suitable for DVD standards.
There are WAC DVDs that look much worse.
So, I can't find any excuse for the absence of even an official DVD release.

Exactly! Releasing this film on a DVD-R is a realistic proposition. Expecting a Blu-ray disc is not realistic, least of all from Warner Archive whose track record so far indicates they only release on Blu-ray films which do not require expensive work.

 

[Robin9]

Honest question, but is Raintree County really that high profile? It was a box-office flop when it came out in 1957, and I don't think it's ever been notable except for being the first Ultra Panavision movie, and because of Monty Clift's accident. Outside of the devotees (including myself) on this forum, does the movie have enough of a fanbase that could justify the multi-million dollar restoration expense from WHV?

An honest question, and the honest answer is your assessment is correct. This film does not have a large fan base and is pretty well forgotten by most people who are still interested in movies from the 1950s. It most certainly is not Elizabeth Taylor's finest hour.

 

[OliverK]

This may be a dumb question, but do you know if creating new archival film elements is something that WB is going to have to do down the line for Raintree? This isn't an Alamo situation (or has the potential to be), is it?

Surely this is something that Warner will have to tackle at some point.

And Raintree may still be in better shape than the Alamo today but probably not for very long as it has also been shot on very problematic film stock and the OCN doesn't get better.

 

[OliverK]

Honest question, but is Raintree County really that high profile? It was a box-office flop when it came out in 1957, and I don't think it's ever been notable except for being the first Ultra Panavision movie, and because of Monty Clift's accident. Outside of the devotees (including myself) on this forum, does the movie have enough of a fanbase that could justify the multi-million dollar restoration expense from WHV?

This is not to say that Raintree County doesn't deserve being preserved, I just wanted to get some context and perspective.

A few reasons why I would consider it higher profile release:

- it is a large format release which would mean we could possibly get spectacular picture quality and in this case a very good soundtrack
- it would be the first release of Raintree since the LD days and a first for Warner
- it was the first film in the ultra wide single strip format

At the box office it wasn't a really a big flop but it still underperformed compared to its more than 5 Million production costs. One of the reasons may also have been the lack of additional income through 70mm roadshow screenings that would have commanded a premium ticket price.

1957 box office: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_in_film

Here it says that the total box office was about 9 Million,maybe also including foreign territories:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raintree_County_(film)