Mastering errors on legacy bonus features on recent Warner Archive titles (King Solomon’s Mines, The Boy With Green Hair, One Way Passage, etc.) (1 Viewer)

[Josh Steinberg]

My twins are 9, and 95% of my day is yelling at them and pulling my hair out.

My hair is becoming far too precious a resource to pull out!

 

[JoshZ]

The 1.5:1 aspect ratio definitely stems from the DVD format and whoever encoded the Archive Blu-rays not understanding how it all works. The DVD format is 720X480 (1.5:1) and if flagged as FF the image is squeezed to 1.33:1, or if flagged as WS stretched to 1.78:1. Both 1.33:1 and 1.78:1 had the exact same pixels on DVD. DVD players would allow you to select a screen type, and if you chose 1.33:1 the player would show FF content unaltered and for WS content would add letterbox bars to the top and bottom of your screen, at the expense of vertical resolution. If you chose 1.78:1 setting, it would show WS content unaltered and for FF content would add pillar box bars to the sides, at the expense of horizontal resolution. However, my first DVD player wouldn’t even do the pillar box method, so that you actually had to use the TV’s aspect ratio control to show 1.33:1 with gray side bars!

I agree. It seems likely that someone at the post house handing the disc authoring for Warner Archive has forgotten or wasn't ever aware that DVD used non-square pixels in order to allow an equal 720x480 resolution (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL) for both 4:3 and 16:9 formats. The DVD spec was originally designed for playback on analog CRT screens, which could switch between those two aspect ratio formats without loss of resolution just by adjusting the sweep of the scan gun.

Once the market fully transitioned to digital screens with fixed pixel panels, scaling became necessary to maintain proper picture geometry when changing aspect ratio. When upconverting DVD 720x480 to 1080p HD with square pixels, a 16:9 image should be scaled to 1920x1080, and a 4:3 image to 1440x1080 with pillarbox bars filling in the extra width on the sides.

If you scale a 720x480 4:3 image linearly without compensating for the picture geometry, you wind up with 1620x1080 pixels and the image stretched to a 1.5:1 aspect ratio like we're seeing on these discs.

I doubt there's any chance of Warner Archive re-authoring these existing discs to fix the bonus features, but we can hope they correct the process going forward.

 

[Baenwort]

Has anyone sent them this info and analysis?

 

[Mark-P]

I agree. It seems likely that someone at the post house handing the disc authoring for Warner Archive has forgotten or wasn't ever aware that DVD used non-square pixels in order to allow an equal 720x480 resolution (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL) for both 4:3 and 16:9 formats. The DVD spec was originally designed for playback on analog CRT screens, which could switch between those two aspect ratio formats without loss of resolution just by adjusting the sweep of the scan gun.

Once the market fully transitioned to digital screens with fixed pixel panels, scaling became necessary to maintain proper picture geometry when changing aspect ratio. When upconverting DVD 720x480 to 1080p HD with square pixels, a 16:9 image should be scaled to 1920x1080, and a 4:3 image to 1440x1080 with pillarbox bars filling in the extra width on the sides.

If you scale a 720x480 4:3 image linearly without compensating for the picture geometry, you wind up with 1620x1080 pixels and the image stretched to a 1.5:1 aspect ratio like we're seeing on these discs.

I doubt there's any chance of Warner Archive re-authoring these existing discs to fix the bonus features, but we can hope they correct the process going forward.

Yes! You’re so right. Even I had forgotten that PAL DVDs unscaled (720X576) have a native aspect ratio of 1.25:1 which would then accordingly be stretched to 1.33:1 or 1.78:1 based on flagging.

 

[Indy Guy]

The 1.5:1 aspect ratio definitely stems from the DVD format and whoever encoded the Archive Blu-rays not understanding how it all works. The DVD format is 720X480 (1.5:1) and if flagged as FF the image is squeezed to 1.33:1, or if flagged as WS stretched to 1.78:1. Both 1.33:1 and 1.78:1 had the exact same pixels on DVD. DVD players would allow you to select a screen type, and if you chose 1.33:1 the player would show FF content unaltered and for WS content would add letterbox bars to the top and bottom of your screen, at the expense of vertical resolution. If you chose 1.78:1 setting, it would show WS content unaltered and for FF content would add pillar box bars to the sides, at the expense of horizontal resolution. However, my first DVD player wouldn’t even do the pillar box method, so that you actually had to use the TV’s aspect ratio control to show 1.33:1 with gray side bars!

Mark, this is exactly the situation! And Josh also described two equally correct ways of either living with the flaws or making an effort to correct it. It was not my intent to give a letterboxing primer, but to defend my solution after being told publicly that it was wrong.
It might be possible to alert studios to correcting this problem going forward, but I'm afraid we will have to live with what's already been released.

 

[cdirks]

Encoding errors may not be entirely to blame. After November 2015 firmware updates to OPPO BDP-103 DVD/BR players, 4:3 DVDs display incorrectly in two modes

The last OPPO firmware to correctly display 4:3 DVDs (the older ones, not the newer 16x9 widescreen DVDs) – in “Uscan” mode and “Zoom ½” mode – was released in February of 2014 (BDP10x-70-0218).

Since then, beginning with the November 2015 firmware (BDP10x-80-1031), all OPPO BD-firmware updates from that date forward do not correctly show a 4:3 DVD in either “U-Scan” or "Zoom ½" mode (and virtually all first releases of classic movies – pre-Cinemascope – on DVD are mastered at 4:3, so the number of DVDs affected is vast) … doesn’t apply to Blu-Ray (even if they have 4:3 content, since they are properly mastered for 16x9), fortunately.

In those two modes, when playing a 4:3 DVD, you should have large left and right borders, but if you have updated firmware, NO, the image is stretched. Yes, “Uscan” should show the image at 95%, but it shouldn’t be stretched (and fill the screen entirely). As I said, this does not happen or apply to either 16x9 widescreen DVDs or all BR discs.

In my own personal experience, I contacted OPPO when this problem first arose, and they took a while to get around to admitting that YES, I was right ... BUT they never fixed the problem. In fact, I was forced to send them BOTH of my players so they could set the firmware BACK to February 2014. Of course, this means that the home menus are all wrong, displaying apps that no longer exist. BUT, it means that all 4:3 DVDs will display correctly in ALL modes.

 

[JoshZ]

Encoding errors may not be entirely to blame. After November 2015 firmware updates to OPPO BDP-103 DVD/BR players, 4:3 DVDs display incorrectly in two modes

The last OPPO firmware to correctly display 4:3 DVDs (the older ones, not the newer 16x9 widescreen DVDs) – in “Uscan” mode and “Zoom ½” mode – was released in February of 2014 (BDP10x-70-0218).

Since then, beginning with the November 2015 firmware (BDP10x-80-1031), all OPPO BD-firmware updates from that date forward do not correctly show a 4:3 DVD in either “U-Scan” or "Zoom ½" mode (and virtually all first releases of classic movies – pre-Cinemascope – on DVD are mastered at 4:3, so the number of DVDs affected is vast) … doesn’t apply to Blu-Ray (even if they have 4:3 content, since they are properly mastered for 16x9), fortunately.

In those two modes, when playing a 4:3 DVD, you should have large left and right borders, but if you have updated firmware, NO, the image is stretched. Yes, “Uscan” should show the image at 95%, but it shouldn’t be stretched (and fill the screen entirely). As I said, this does not happen or apply to either 16x9 widescreen DVDs or all BR discs.

In my own personal experience, I contacted OPPO when this problem first arose, and they took a while to get around to admitting that YES, I was right ... BUT they never fixed the problem. In fact, I was forced to send them BOTH of my players so they could set the firmware BACK to February 2014. Of course, this means that the home menus are all wrong, displaying apps that no longer exist. BUT, it means that all 4:3 DVDs will display correctly in ALL modes.

That would only be the case if the features were authored onto the disc in standard-def resolution. On King Solomon's Mines, the trailer may have originated in SD, but has been upconverted to 1080p and is authored onto the disc as 1920x1080 pixels. The disc player's aspect ratio controls don't apply in that case. The stretch and the pillarbox bars are baked into the content.

In any case, I have an OPPO UDP-203 with the last firmware offered. I just popped in a few 4:3 DVDs and am not seeing any stretching with the player set to the normal Wide/Auto mode (which should automatically pillarbox 4:3 SD). 4:3 looks 4:3. I don't normally use U-Scan or Zoom 1/2. I tested them, but I'm not sure what they're supposed to look like. U-Scan was windowboxed in the center of the screen with bars on all sides, slightly smaller than regular 4:3.

I would assume the number of OPPO owners who do use those modes is probably pretty small.

 

[Indy Guy]

Encoding errors may not be entirely to blame. After November 2015 firmware updates to OPPO BDP-103 DVD/BR players, 4:3 DVDs display incorrectly in two modes

The last OPPO firmware to correctly display 4:3 DVDs (the older ones, not the newer 16x9 widescreen DVDs) – in “Uscan” mode and “Zoom ½” mode – was released in February of 2014 (BDP10x-70-0218).

Since then, beginning with the November 2015 firmware (BDP10x-80-1031), all OPPO BD-firmware updates from that date forward do not correctly show a 4:3 DVD in either “U-Scan” or "Zoom ½" mode (and virtually all first releases of classic movies – pre-Cinemascope – on DVD are mastered at 4:3, so the number of DVDs affected is vast) … doesn’t apply to Blu-Ray (even if they have 4:3 content, since they are properly mastered for 16x9), fortunately.

In those two modes, when playing a 4:3 DVD, you should have large left and right borders, but if you have updated firmware, NO, the image is stretched. Yes, “Uscan” should show the image at 95%, but it shouldn’t be stretched (and fill the screen entirely). As I said, this does not happen or apply to either 16x9 widescreen DVDs or all BR discs.

In my own personal experience, I contacted OPPO when this problem first arose, and they took a while to get around to admitting that YES, I was right ... BUT they never fixed the problem. In fact, I was forced to send them BOTH of my players so they could set the firmware BACK to February 2014. Of course, this means that the home menus are all wrong, displaying apps that no longer exist. BUT, it means that all 4:3 DVDs will display correctly in ALL modes.

Cdirks...This is exactly what my experience with my OPPO player has been! I did not contact OPPO about it because I thought the flaw was in legacy remastering.
I'm surprised OPPO service was not more helpful. They have always been supportive of their products.
Anyway, my solution was to use my image processor to do the correcting (described a ways back). That has solved it for me, but it seems disc authors and hardware suppliers should work more closely together to see these issues dont continue to crop up.

 

[cdirks]

That would only be the case if the features were authored onto the disc in standard-def resolution. On King Solomon's Mines, the trailer may have originated in SD, but has been upconverted to 1080p and is authored onto the disc as 1920x1080 pixels. The disc player's aspect ratio controls don't apply in that case. The stretch and the pillarbox bars are baked into the content.

In any case, I have an OPPO UDP-203 with the last firmware offered. I just popped in a few 4:3 DVDs and am not seeing any stretching with the player set to the normal Wide/Auto mode (which should automatically pillarbox 4:3 SD). 4:3 looks 4:3. I don't normally use U-Scan or Zoom 1/2. I tested them, but I'm not sure what they're supposed to look like. U-Scan was windowboxed in the center of the screen with bars on all sides, slightly smaller than regular 4:3.

I would assume the number of OPPO owners who do use those modes is probably pretty small.

JoshZ, I was adding to the discussion of incorrect displays and offering a case where the incorrect mastering is not the issue. As I indicated, the problem I've noted with my two OPPO players is only with 4:3 DVDs (and therefore, is not directly related to various recent Warner Archive releases if mastered properly). FYI, UScan mode pulls back from the image so that you can see the full 4:3 frame (particularly the top and bottom margins), but with the faulty firmware, you get a stretched image (certainly not 4:3). Maybe the OPPO UDP-203 firmware doesn't contain the problem I indicated with the BDP-103.

 

[Paul Penna]

The latest victims I've come across are the two up-rezzed specials on Queen Christina; in the case of the up-rezzed widescreen trailer on The Courtship of Eddie's Father the issue manifests itself by a vertical squeeze, very apparent when I compared with the same SD transfer on the Easter Parade DVD. Very discouraging.

 

[RMajidi]

When one has 3 year old twins, 95% of the day is mediation

Very late to this absorbing topic.

Josh, you misspelled medication.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Very late to this absorbing topic.

Josh, you misspelled medication.

No, that’s 100% of the time

 

[SD_Brian]

Bonus featurette on the Flamingo Road Blu-ray that is horizontally stretched compared to the same featurette on DVD. Also included here is a screen capture of the breakdown reel that is also distorted (the trailer for the film is not affected).
View attachment 187652 View attachment 187653 View attachment 187654 View attachment 187655

I didn't think it was possible, but they've made Joan Crawford's shoulder pads wider!