Looking for some assistance in choosing a new TV (1 Viewer)

[Punkrulz]

Hey guys,

The situation is that I am going through my "rent to own" place to get a new television. We have one from them that we are still paying for, but I'm not pleased with it (sucks I discovered that really late in the game!). It's a GoVideo MT-GVTL4227AB.

There were 4 TV's that I will list here since I don't think I want to downgrade size. They are the following:

LG 50PC5D - Really like this one.
Hitachi P50S602
Samsung HLT5675SX - Also really like this one.
Mitsubishi WD-57733.

Recently I've been trying to research what I could. I've been really wanting a blu-ray player w/ surround sound to get, but I don't want to waste money on what I feel is my crappy TV. Researching I thought showed that 1080p was the best resolution TV you could buy, and that it further helps when blu-ray players up-convert DVD's. Unfortunately, the LG and Samsung are both DLP TV's, and don't appear to do 1080p.

If someone could answer the following questions I would greatly appreciate it!

1) Could someone please educate me on what I should be looking for on a TV: For the investment, is 1080p the only way to go?
2) Of the 4 TV's, what would provide me the best picture; why?
3) Is there anything else that you need to know to better help me?
4) Are there any other message boards that you recommend I should check out?

Thanks guys, I thank you in advance!

 

[Stephen Tu]

Whether 1080p is worth it depends on your viewing distance. If you sit at ~twice the diagonal, e.g. 100 inches away from a 50 inch, I think it's worth it over 720p.

Of those TVs, I don't know if I'd get any of them, but it would depend on viewing distance. I prefer larger screens so I would tend to the 1080p Mitsubishi DLP.

But I would strongly, strongly advise against "rent to own". In the long run, you end up paying way, way more than the set is really worth. Also they are selling really old models. If you take time to save up and buy outright, you pay a lot less, and you get a newer better set taking advantage of the general trend of electronics to get better & cheaper as time goes by. Look for closeouts on the previous year's model if you are looking for inexpensive & don't need the latest and greatest stuff. If you cannot afford a new set now, consider looking for a used set on craigslist or the like, or just *wait*.
Read this for why you shouldn't rent-to-own:
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/pf/20020611a.asp

 

[Punkrulz]

Stephen,

Thanks for the reply. My viewing distance right now is kind of short, ~10ft. I am sitting directly in front of the TV and no one really sits at an angle. I believe it when you say they are outdated models that I would be paying more for. It's sad but it's really the only option I have unless I save for a long time. I know Rent to Own is going to cost me tons more... I knew that going into it and it scared me when hearing what prices people pay for computers that aren't even worth 1/4 as much as they paid.

It would take me a really long time of saving to be able to get one of the TV's... but I'm going to wait for a post since you suggested viewing is based on angle of such... again, directly in front ~10ft, probably closer to 7ft or so. Small living room in the apartment.

Would it even be worth getting blu-ray on this tv? Right now I hate watching DVD's on it... the widescreen viewing on it is horrible, it makes it very thin to watch.

 

[Stephen Tu]

What do you mean by "very thin to watch"? Do you mean objects look distorted, taller & thinner than they should be? Perhaps you have a setting wrong on the DVD and/or TV and that can be fixed. Maybe that can satisfy you & buy you time to save up for something bigger.

I think you have to learn better patience. IMO if you don't have the savings to afford to simply buy a TV outright, you really can't afford to rent-to-own either. I mean if you can't afford a $1000 set, and a "rent-to-own" costs 2-4x that after you add up all the payments, how is that logical that you can afford a $3k TV but not a $1k TV? Especially when you already have an HDTV you are still paying for! How long have you had this previous TV, anyway, how much longer on your contract / how much are you paying? And what kind of price would you have to pay on the new one for how long?

Your idea of "really long time of saving" may not be really long at all in the view of other people with better finances. I'm lucky enough to have the savings to buy any mass market TV I want, yet it still sounds like I hold off way longer than you between upgrades.

 

[Punkrulz]

1) By very thin to watch, I mean that when the DVD is in wide-screen format, you figure that I have a 42" TV (not sure of the specs for the vertical resolution). A huge chunk is cut up for me to be able to view wide screen. Yes, I could change the zoom level on both the TV as well as the DVD, but that kind of defeats the purpose. I have a 23" LCD PC Monitor that when watching a DVD movie on my TV, the height of the picture is about the same as the height of this monitor... I don't know if it's just the way I'm seeing things, if that's how they're supposed to be, or if a different TV would result in a better picture (Regular HD programming I think is viewed awesome!

2) Regarding patience... I've been asked before that if I can't afford the $1,000 TV now how can I afford the expensive one... see the difference between the two is that one is provided for me within a reasonable bill that I pay bi-weekly (and split with the g/f). The other would consist of saving up a large sum of money, in which that money would wind up being used on other things. It's tough to explain, but having a managed bill that I pay is a lot easier than to hold onto that sum of money where it will wind up going somewhere else. Emergencies happen and that money would be gone (Yes, I have ways of handling emergencies now... as previously stated, it is tough to explain.) All that was previously mentioned is that this is where I'm getting the TV from... yes, I hate it as much as you do, but that's just the situation that I am in right now.

3) I believe we owe like $400 more or something on this existing TV. The explained the situation to the representative at the store, and while he stated that he can't move the money from what I'm paying on the TV over to the new account, he would still take the trade in and would "work with me" regarding a new TV set. I don't know what those details ensue, that's why I came back here to better research my decision about what TV. This is a guy we hate but he isn't at that store much, so there are standing orders for the lady who runs the store to call him when we choose a TV, she'll give him the information and he'll make a decision.

The reason that I'm looking for an "upgrade" is more so because I'm very displeased with the TV I got in the beginning. It was a mal-informed decision that was made, which was slowly pecking at me until I decided to do something about it. I still have a regular 27" TV that I am not replacing in the bedroom because it serves it's purpose, but this one just annoys me almost every time I watch it. That's why I'm looking into this. That's why I'm curious to see what deal this guy will give me, and that's why I'm hoping for a better viewing experience.

And note: The whole driving force behind this is because I want a better DVD / Audio setup. Best Buy has been toting promotions about like a samsung surround sound + blu-ray player for $200... Don't want to dish $200 into a TV that may not do it well, so I'm taking care of one problem first. I'm still curious if my existing TV would settle for blu-ray capabilities, and my "thin viewing" problem is merely a product of HDTV without upconverted DVD's.

 

[nolesrule]

Originally Posted by Punkrulz

The other would consist of saving up a large sum of money, in which that money would wind up being used on other things. It's tough to explain, but having a managed bill that I pay is a lot easier than to hold onto that sum of money where it will wind up going somewhere else. Emergencies happen and that money would be gone (Yes, I have ways of handling emergencies now... as previously stated, it is tough to explain.)

Unless you are just buying TVs as a way to hide your liquid assets, you need to learn to become more financially disciplined. Open a savings account. Set aside the money that you would be giving to the rent-to-own place. Don't touch it. When you have enough (which is probably half the length of a rent-to-own contract), go to a real electronics store and buy a TV.

It's not that hard.

Meanwhile, stick around here. Members of the HTF can probably help you solve your "thin" problem, which is likely incorrect settings on your TV, DVD player, or both.

 

[Stephen Tu]

"Thin" picture on DVDs:
Something sounds wrong here. You have a widescreen set now. That means that maybe ~half the movies you see (excluding 4:3 TV shows, and very old movies) should fill the entire screen, without distortion or anything getting cut off. Any DVD marked "1.85:1" on the box/disc should take up the entire set, at most a few black scan lines. Only the movies marked "2.35:1" (or wider) should be the ones that lose ~25% of the screen to letterbox bars. It's supposed to be that way for these movies, because they are wider than your set (16:9 or 1.78:1). In order to not have the bars, the sides of the picture would have to be cut off. Still that's better than an old 4:3 set where you lose almost half the screen to bars.

A new TV wouldn't change this at all, in terms of what % of the screen a particular title on DVD (or Blu-ray) takes up. It would just be bigger, if you went larger. Blu-ray will be sharper on your set than DVD. "Upconversion" doesn't really do much, your TV is already upconverting the DVD to 1366x768. A different player may upconvert better than your TV, but the differences aren't usually huge, tiny compared to HDTV vs. DVD or Blu-ray vs. DVD.

What model DVD player?
Do you have your DVD hooked up with component video? (Set of green/blue/red RCA connected to jacks marked usually "Y/Pb/Pr"). Or HDMI?
In the DVD setup menu, there should be a "TV shape" setting. Set it to 16:9.
The TV should have various zoom settings. The one that you use for the HDTV programs, usually "full" or "16:9", but different names on different sets, should work with almost all current movie DVDs. There are some older DVDs that are so called "4:3 letterbox", these will look distorted in that mode. You should use a zoom mode for these that restores the proportions and cuts off some/all of the black bars. After zooming, the same thing about aspect ratios apply; 1.85:1 movies will fill the screen, 2.35:1 will leave small black letterboxing bars. Older 4:3 movies like Casablanca, Sound of Music, use the 4:3 mode of the set (ful height but bars on sides).

Financial:
It sounds like you really need an intervention, get your financial situation in order. If you don't have separate money to pay for emergencies, you really have no business getting new flatscreens, Blu-ray, surround sound. All your money is getting sucked up by what are essentially interest payments. Rent-to-own is like effective 100-200% APR from what I read. This is way worse than paying 25% credit card interest rates which is already bad. You'd be way better off just charging it, then putting what you would have paid the rent-to-own store toward paying off the card balance instead. Though you really shouldn't do that either. Saving and paying in full is the only sane way to go.

You call the bi-weekly bill "reasonable". That's a totally psychological thing you have get rid in your mind. Their rates are completely unreasonable! I think in most states they have to label the goods with total cost of all payments. Just look at that figure, it's totally unreasonable! The bi-weekly bill only looks reasonable to you because they've divided your yearly payment by 26. Lots of unreasonable things look reasonable when divided by 26 but that's a mirage.

If you got rid of the "gotta have it now" mentality, you could get a lot more cool stuff for your money. Say they are making you pay $50 bi-weekly. If you simply deposited that in the bank, separate new account vowing not to touch it, in a year you have $1300. You can pay for a killer 2009 set, and maybe even have a few hundred left over. And are off the hook for the next year while rent-to-own you are still paying. With the money saved the next year, you could buy a killer Blu-ray/audio rig, not just this $200-300 junky Best Buy system. So at the end of 2 years you have a 2009 set + great audio, instead of just a 2007 model year set. The way you're proposing, basically you are letting the rent-to-own store steal your audio system, stick you with an older TV, and steal the HDTV you have now.

Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/13/2009 at 07:47 am GMT
Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/13/2009 at 07:56 am GMT

 

[Punkrulz]

My DVD Player currently is an Apex AD-1500 (Old, had it since at least 2001?). Going through the setup options, I saw some that may apply. It is presently connected to my TV utilizing an S-Video cable.

General TV - Normal P/S (Pan Scan), Normal L/B (Letterbox), and Wide. When setting the DVD Player to wide, I was given more screen real-estate back. I now had less black bar area than previously. I'm not losing anything while switching to this mode am I? It doesn't zoom in unexpectedly or anything? Just making sure all should be right. I tested it with a movie we rented that I believe is either 2.40:1 or 2.39:1. Some movies in my collection state that they are presented in widescreen format and don't specify the resolution. One was 1.85 which I may check out later, but it seems that most of my widescreen movies don't run in that format regardless of how new they are.

There was a TV Mode, Multi / NTSC / Pal. Not sure what this should be set to, I think it's set to NTSC right now but I need to look up my TV again to see what's what.

 

[Stephen Tu]

Originally Posted by Punkrulz

General TV - Normal P/S (Pan Scan), Normal L/B (Letterbox), and Wide. When setting the DVD Player to wide, I was given more screen real-estate back. I now had less black bar area than previously. I'm not losing anything while switching to this mode am I? It doesn't zoom in unexpectedly or anything?

This is the correct behavior. You aren't losing anything, you are *gaining* the full resolution back. Most DVDs say something like "enhanced for 16:9 TVs" or sometimes "anamorphic widescreen". The "wide" is the normal output mode for this type of disc. The default setting was for older std non-wide TVs, and letterboxes the output, which throws away 25% of the resolution, shrinks the picture and adds bars on top & bottom. In the case of the 2.35:1 movies, bars in addition to the ones already present. The "wide" avoids that step.

You'll find that a few, particularly older discs and some imports, labeled "4:3 letterbox" *do not* give you the real estate back in this mode, they look like they did before. These are non-"16:9 enhanced" discs, here all of the black bars were on the disc itself. For these, you'll want to use the TV format/aspect/zoom, whatever it's called, not the player zoom (which doesn't have the perfect 133% zoom on your model). You want the mode that stretches the picture equally in both directions, and chops off the top/bottom black bars, only part of the bars on 2.35:1 films.

Just making sure all should be right. I tested it with a movie we rented that I believe is either 2.40:1 or 2.39:1. Some movies in my collection state that they are presented in widescreen format and don't specify the resolution. One was 1.85 which I may check out later, but it seems that most of my widescreen movies don't run in that format regardless of how new they are.

The number is called the "aspect ratio" not the resolution. If the box doesn't have it (often in very fine print easy to miss), you can usually get the number under DVD details at imdb.com

Newness affects "enhanced for 16:9" vs. "4:3 letterbox", not 1.85:1 vs. 2.35:1. More of the letterbox discs were produced late 90s, early days of DVD. But the actual aspect ratio of the movie, which is a different thing, just varies randomly from movie to movie. There is a slight tendency for big action/sci-fi/epic dramas to be 2.35:1 (or greater like your 2.39:1), and run-of-the-mill comedies/dramas to be 1.85:1, but there are numerous exceptions both ways. If you mostly buy the first type of movie that can explain the predominance of 2.35:1 films.

There was a TV Mode, Multi / NTSC / Pal. Not sure what this should be set to, I think it's set to NTSC right now but I need to look up my TV again to see what's what.

NTSC is correct setting. Other settings for other countries that use different TV std than we do.

 

[Punkrulz]

Thanks for the reply Stephen. Right now I can't wait to see the difference viewing a DVD with my TV set to Wide on the DVD player instead of the two other options. Once I could work on my audio I would be set! I'm a bit more reluctant to change the TV settings regarding viewing. There are three 4 settings:

Normal (Vertical Bars on each side, picture seems tiny, you explained this)
Wide (Vertical Bars on non-HD channels, picture is less compressed horizontally.)
Zoom (Veritcal bars on non-HD channels, as indicated zooms in picture)
Cinema (I am not using this one, but on non-HD channels it seems to make the picture itself full screen, no vertical bars but it definitely zooms in the picture).

I'm beginning to wonder if there is perhaps a third setting that may come into play, a setting for my cable box. There are no settings that control the display that I can access regularly as a user, but I believe there may be some tech settings that could be tweaked... I'm not sure, any thoughts? I know I have a Comcast Motorola DVR, their newer model that's silver, black screen and thin blue display. Would that need any tweaking? I don't use Cinema because it really blows up my TV guide.

 

[Stephen Tu]

You have to learn to change the TV modes if you want optimal viewing experience. You'll be leaving it on "wide" like 95% of the time, but sometimes the picture will be distorted so you'll have to change it.

Normal: use this for old 4:3(1.33:1) DVD movies, DVDs of old 4:3 TV shows. When the DVD fills the entire screen top to bottom but looks too "fat" in wide mode.

Wide: Use for all of your HDTV-DVR viewing & the vast majority of your DVD viewing.

Zoom/Cinema. The terminology varies by set so I'm not sure which is which. You'll only really want to use one of them. You'd only use it for the "4:3 letterbox DVDs", which in the "wide" mode on the TV will have everything looking fatter than it ought to be, with black bars on top & bottom. (If no black bars, use "normal"). You want to pick the one that stretches the picture 33% vertically compared to "wide", cutting off the bars or part of the bars, restoring proportions without cutting off the sides of the picture. The other one may stretch both directions, or parts of the screen non-uniformly.

Cable box: Yes absolutely there are settings you need to do. Turn on the set & set to the cable box input (must use HDMI or green/blue/red component). Turn *off* the cable box, then hit "menu" on the cable box remote. This should bring up a config screen. Set to 16:9 TV, output resolution use 720p (or 1080i, experiment to see if any difference, on 720p stations like ESPNHD/ABCHD & 1080i stations like TNTHD/CBSHD). I would leave "4:3 override" "off". Then turn off/on the box and that should be good, shouldn't ever have to use anything but "wide" on the TV for cable.