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Let's Talk About Networking (2 Viewers)

JohnRice

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I don't believe I ever said that but the chief advantages of WiFi 6 just don't apply to most consumer scenarios. It's mainly intended to improve performance in densely populated environments such as corporate office space and large venues.

That said, I'm with you on future-proofing, which is why I asked if you had purchased the AP specifically for that purpose. My next router [etc.] will also be consistent with current standards but I won't buy it until a compelling enough case presents itself. For the time being, Wifi 5 works perfectly fine for me.
Isn’t the main benefit of WiFi 6 the number of devices an AP can connect to? So yeah, I don’t know many homes that have 300 devices. My mother’s assisted living facility is another story. They’ve run out of device capacity, but have indefinitely delayed upgrades that were supposed to have been done last month.
 

GeorgeHolland

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Isn’t the main benefit of WiFi 6 the number of devices an AP can connect to? So yeah, I don’t know many homes that have 300 devices. My mother’s assisted living facility is another story. They’ve run out of device capacity, but have indefinitely delayed upgrades that were supposed to have been done last month.

High density yes but also speed. As a photographer now getting into 4K and possibly 8K video, Speed is of great interest to me. Devices with 2.5 Gbps and higher hardwired connections like a 10 GbE-equipped NAS, wireless backups and access via my MacBook Pro M2 could take a fraction of the time they would on a sub-6GHz network.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Isn’t the main benefit of WiFi 6 the number of devices an AP can connect to? So yeah, I don’t know many homes that have 300 devices. My mother’s assisted living facility is another story. They’ve run out of device capacity, but have indefinitely delayed upgrades that were supposed to have been done last month.

Thing is... if you actually need that many connections from that many devices, well, would most of them even reside w/in good, unobstructed (enough) range of the AP for WiFi 6 connectivity, LOL?

Maybe I'm missing something in that equation (for WiFi 6 to matter quite that much) as I haven't really needed to dig into that much... though I do have a WiFi 6 router (ASUS RT-AX86U) and a few WiFi 6 devices/computer(s) that do actually get connected via WiFi 6 much of the time, but not quite that regularly and reliably so despite usually being just <=25ft away precisely because of the issue(s) I mentioned. :P

_Man_
 

John Dirk

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Thing is... if you actually need that many connections from that many devices, well, would most of them even reside w/in good, unobstructed (enough) range of the AP for WiFi 6 connectivity, LOL?
This is exactly why we do predictive surveys in commercial environments. A properly implemented network would account for this by provisioning and placing the AP's based on heatmaps.
 
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GeorgeHolland

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With the AP sitting on an upstairs windowsill I am able to connect and stream a Premier Football (Soccer) game down on the lake with my MacBook Pro M2 Max for over 5 minutes without problem. My iPhone 14 Pro Max dropped the WiFi signal after a short period and I was not able to reconnect but I only tried once before hiking back up after a short morning test.

It is getting hard to purchase any decent WiFi component without WiFi 6. My MacBook Pro M2 supports it, any new iPhones support it and my next WiFi router will have it. I would have selected this AP anyway and it helped it was on sale. I keep things a long time and prefer to future proof. Surprised you don't see value in WiFi 6 and 6E. I look forward to the ability to connect at speed while working on the patio and accessing large image and video files on my NAS.

View attachment 195096

Banned to the Lake while my wife has the girls over. NCAA football streaming without a drop or hitch. Even watching the Dawgs since my wife is celebrating with her friends after the receipt of her UW diploma she just got in the mail. Tough to do for a Coug. go Pac 2.


Lake_Streaming_8580.jpg
 

John Dirk

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Banned to the Lake while my wife has the girls over. NCAA football streaming without a drop or hitch. Even watching the Dawgs since my wife is celebrating with her friends after the receipt of her UW diploma she just got in the mail. Tough to do for a Coug. go Pac 2.


View attachment 196613
I'm gonna be like you one day. :cool:
 

Scott Merryfield

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So, the TP-Link Deco mesh wireless router system I bought a while back now provides for a separate (sort of) network for so-called "Internet of Things" (IoT) devices -- home automation devices, smart lights, etc. This is in addition to the guest network feature. The implementation was a little strange, though. After moving devices to the IoT network, I could still ping them from the main network. Well, it turns out there is a completely separate feature under the security settings called "device isolation" where you select devices from either network for isolation. Those devices then can communicate with other isolated devices (on either network) and the Internet, but not with non-isolated devices. So, in reality the only thing the separate IoT ssid is accomplishing is keeping the password for your main network ssid away from IoT devices, should one of them become compromised.

I have slowly been moving my devices to the IoT network. It's a pain in the arse with some of the devices, as the only way to attach them to a different network is by doing a factory reset of the device and re-configuring it from scratch. All my Kasa lights and switches are this way. The Amazon Echos seem to keep some of their settings when reset. The Nest thermostat is the only device so far that has provided an option to simply select a different network and enter a new password, so I didn't need to rebuild my heating and cooling schedules.

I still have a couple of Echos to move, plus I will probably move my Denon AVR and two UHD disc players. The Roku and Apple TV streaming boxes, as well as the two smart TVs, probably need to remain on the main network for casting purposes -- although I rarely do that right now.
 
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John Dirk

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So, the TP-Link Deco mesh wireless router system I bought a while back now provides for a separate (sort of) network for so-called "Internet of Things" (IoT) devices -- home automation devices, smart lights, etc. This is in addition to the guest network feature. The implementation was a little strange, though. After moving devices to the IoT network, I could still ping them from the main network. Well, it turns out there is a completely separate feature under the security settings called "device isolation" where you select devices from either network for isolation. Those devices then can communicate with other isolated devices (on either network) and the Internet, but not with non-isolated devices. So, in reality the only thing the separate IoT network is accomplishing is keeping the password for your main network away from IoT devices, should one of them become compromised.

I have slowly been moving my devices to the IoT network. It's a pain in the arse with some of the devices, as the only way to attach them to a different network is by doing a factory reset of the device and re-configuring it from scratch. All my Kasa lights and switches are this way. The Amazon Echos seem to keep some of their settings when reset. The Nest thermostat is the only device so far that has provided an option to simply select a different network and enter a new password, so I didn't need to rebuild my heating and cooling schedules.

I still have a couple of Echos to move, plus I will probably move my Denon AVR and two UHD disc players. The Roku and Apple TV streaming boxes, as well as the two smart TVs, probably need to remain on the main network for casting purposes -- although I rarely do that right now.
Wow. That sounds like a lot of work. Does the router not support VLAN's? That might have been an easier approach.
 

Scott Merryfield

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Wow. That sounds like a lot of work. Does the router not support VLAN's? That might have been an easier approach.
No, VLANs are not a feature, unfortunately. It's tedious work, but I have just been doing it a little at a time. I figure once I am done, adding new devices in the future shouldn't be a big deal.
 

JohnRice

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So, the TP-Link Deco mesh wireless router system I bought a while back now provides for a separate (sort of) network for so-called "Internet of Things" (IoT) devices -- home automation devices, smart lights, etc. This is in addition to the guest network feature. The implementation was a little strange, though. After moving devices to the IoT network, I could still ping them from the main network. Well, it turns out there is a completely separate feature under the security settings called "device isolation" where you select devices from either network for isolation. Those devices then can communicate with other isolated devices (on either network) and the Internet, but not with non-isolated devices. So, in reality the only thing the separate IoT ssid is accomplishing is keeping the password for your main network ssid away from IoT devices, should one of them become compromised.

I have slowly been moving my devices to the IoT network. It's a pain in the arse with some of the devices, as the only way to attach them to a different network is by doing a factory reset of the device and re-configuring it from scratch. All my Kasa lights and switches are this way. The Amazon Echos seem to keep some of their settings when reset. The Nest thermostat is the only device so far that has provided an option to simply select a different network and enter a new password, so I didn't need to rebuild my heating and cooling schedules.

I still have a couple of Echos to move, plus I will probably move my Denon AVR and two UHD disc players. The Roku and Apple TV streaming boxes, as well as the two smart TVs, probably need to remain on the main network for casting purposes -- although I rarely do that right now.
I take it this is essentially a type of second guest network intended only for automation type devices? My question is, why? I suppose if could add a little extra level of security, since the guest network doesn't allow access to other local devices, so it can't be used this way. I'm assuming this must allow access to other local devices. It seems like it would have to in order to function.
 

Scott Merryfield

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I take it this is essentially a type of second guest network intended only for automation type devices? My question is, why? I suppose if could add a little extra level of security, since the guest network doesn't allow access to other local devices, so it can't be used this way. I'm assuming this must allow access to other local devices. It seems like it would have to in order to function.
Yes, in a way, it's like a guest network. However, in this implementation, the isolated devices can still see one another. That does provide for functionality for home automation devices that use a central hub to communicate with the devices. My automated lights don't do that, though.

As to why, it's considered best practice to separate your IoT devices from the other devices on your network, as those IoT devices in theory are a vulnerability due to generally not getting the same security patch treatment as PCs, smart phones, etc. While using the guest network function would do the same thing, it would in theory make that network and your devices more vulnerable if you do in fact provide access to the guest network to your guests for their personal devices when visiting. We do this when the grand nieces & nephews visit and bring their tablets. I would rather keep those devices off my private networks.
 

DaveF

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What TP-Link Deco model do you have? I’ve got the m5 and don’t recall it having a IOT network feature. Will have to check again.

Just found the “Device Isolation” feature! I wonder if this is newer? It didn’t register if it’s been there the past two years. :)
 

Scott Merryfield

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What TP-Link Deco model do you have? I’ve got the m5 and don’t recall it having a IOT network feature. Will have to check again.

Just found the “Device Isolation” feature! I wonder if this is newer? It didn’t register if it’s been there the past two years. :)
It's a feature that TP-Link has been adding via firmware updates lately. Their first iteration of a separate IoT network didn't offer any traffic isolation between networks, and they received a lot of complaints about this -- deservedly so. This "device isolation" feature is their attempt at rectifying their initial error. It's not really what I envision when establishing a separate network to isolate certain devices, but it does mostly provide a solution for the task. It's just a kludgy way to go about it, IMO.
 

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I’ll take a look at it this fall when I’ve got time for such things. And I’ve been surprised-happy with their feature updates quietly rolling out. My decision on a intermediate price/performance mesh kit is working out better than I’d hoped. :)
 

Scott Merryfield

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I’ll take a look at it this fall when I’ve got time for such things. And I’ve been surprised-happy with their feature updates quietly rolling out. My decision on a intermediate price/performance mesh kit is working out better than I’d hoped. :)
Yes, I am pretty satisfied with the Deco X55 version I bought, too, especially at the price. It's fairly easy to setup and manage (except for this whole IoT feature). The product solved the few coverage issues we had in our house. My only additional wish is that there would also be a way to manage the network fro a web browser in addition to using their smart phone app. But that's a minor quibble.
 

JohnRice

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So, my wired backhaul network has the IoT option as well. I don’t have any automation devices, and I still don’t understand what the benefit is anyway.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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I'm not crazy about IoT either -- just seems like a substantial security risk on top of the potential privacy issues (inherent w/ using whatever IoT tech). Of course, maybe the ship has largely already sailed on those issues/concerns, ha...

The only time I really considered something like that was for this, heh: :lol:


_Man_
 

Scott Merryfield

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So, my wired backhaul network has the IoT option as well. I don’t have any automation devices, and I still don’t understand what the benefit is anyway.
I would suggest Googling "IoT Security Issues". There are lots of articles on the topic. Creating a separate network for your IoT devices keeps those devices from infecting your desktops, laptops, tablets, phones, etc. if an IoT device becomes compromised.

I did finish getting my network devices separated, and I also used this opportunity to change the password of my main wi-fi network. The password has been unchanged for many years, since it's such a pain the butt to change the password on some of these devices. The two devices that gave me the most difficulty in this re-configuration were my Brother wireless laser printer and our Amazon Echo Tap (it's a portable, battery-powered Echo). It took me several attempts to change the network settings on these two devices. The other Echo devices all went smoothly, though.
 

JohnRice

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I would suggest Googling "IoT Security Issues". There are lots of articles on the topic. Creating a separate network for your IoT devices keeps those devices from infecting your desktops, laptops, tablets, phones, etc. if an IoT device becomes compromised.

I did finish getting my network devices separated, and I also used this opportunity to change the password of my main wi-fi network. The password has been unchanged for many years, since it's such a pain the butt to change the password on some of these devices. The two devices that gave me the most difficulty in this re-configuration were my Brother wireless laser printer and our Amazon Echo Tap (it's a portable, battery-powered Echo). It took me several attempts to change the network settings on these two devices. The other Echo devices all went smoothly, though.
Does it make it where a computer on the main network, or wired, can see the devices, but the devices can’t see the computer? That would make sense.
 

Scott Merryfield

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Does it make it where a computer on the main network, or wired, can see the devices, but the devices can’t see the computer? That would make sense.
Ideally, the two networks are completely separate, so devices on one cannot see devices on the other. For home automation devices, they rarely need to interact directly with your PC or smart phone. They are usually controlled via an external app or website, so your PC / phone accesses the website, which pushes commands or changes to the IoT device.
 

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