HD-DVD to use WMV Codec (1 Viewer)

[DaViD Boulet]

Wow. good news.

That still leaves HD-DVD with the edge in high-resolution auido (24/192 multichannel etc.) though. DD and DTS just won't cut it for me on BluRay...unless they do each at bitrates much higher than get used on DVD (ie, transparent compression...doesn't have to be lossless...just transparent).

 

[Joshua Clinard]

This is BAD news. I don't want any studio's to start putting movies on Blu-Ray before they put movies on HD-DVD. This is just Sony playing politics again. It's all about MONEY for Sony, and not about giving consumers a better product. Even if Blu-Ray ends up using a better codec than HD-DVD, I will NEVER buy into Blu-Ray. Sony, as a developer of formats, sucks, and they always have. As a builder of electronic equipment however, they are on of the best. But I will stop buying their products altogether until they either submit Blu-Ray as a standart, or until HD-DVD overtakes Blu-Ray.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Their formats suck? Are you talking about Beta?

Minidisc doesn't "suck", it just never caught on in the states (very popular in Europe and Japan) and offers much better sound quality than MP3 and much better editing and mixing ease than CDR (great for music on-the-go...I have an MD portable for this reason).

SACD, while complicating the market next to DVD-A, provides a virtually perfectly transparent coding of live analog mic feed...something that PCM even at very high resolutions cannot acheive.

Sony was also a co-developer of our current DVD standard. Does that "suck"?

They also developed the CD along with Philips. Does that "suck"?

 

[Brian-W]

Really now... more storage isn't a better product? Selection of more efficient codec isn't a better product? Just say you hate Sony, and leave it at that.

 

[Dan Rudolph]

As opposed to the non-profit DVD forum.

 

[Marc Colella]

HD-DVD still has a major advantage... the titles available under the Warner umbrella.

Not that I'm a fan of these films, but the LOTR, Matrix, and Harry Potter trilogies are BIG sellers.

And if the rumors are true that Disney will be joining the HD-DVD camp, the Pixar films will be another major draw.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

David beat me to the punch.

Sony actually has a marvelous record for developing new formats.

If anything, Sony's weakness is its ego and its consistent practice of technology isolation where they are very resistant to using non Sony technology. (anyone seen a DLP projector in Sony's line-up?) and don't like to share their own technology with other companies.

As an example, just recently Sony stopped making LCD panels for other distributors thus making Epson the sole supplier of LCD panels in the world. This is also why some of Sony's products while superior in design and performance fail in the market place - a la Betamax.

What makes Blu-Ray so interesting is that in some ways it is very similar to the VHS vs Beta war only this time Sony is on the other side and is part of a larger consortium.

I suppose the analogy doesn't really end there. Like VHS, the advantage of Blu-Ray is greater storage and broader distribution. Like Beta, HD-DVD still looks to be the format with the higher quality standard, but with less support (at least for now).

Regardless, while I understand why many people familiar with the electronics industry have a grudge against Sony's business practices. And I understand the hostility many consumers have against Sony due to its monopolistic style of distributing many of their higher end products which of course has resulted in non competitive pricing of those products. None of this can take away from Sony's remarkable history of developing marvelous new formats and technologies.

The fact that Sony as a company is in a critical financial crisis may be the reason for Sony's role in the Blu-Ray group and their recent willingness to consider using a more efficient higher quality codec than the aging MPEG2. Of course considering and actually adopting are two very different things and I am not as optimistic as Brian in this regard. After all, Sony and Microsoft are not the best of friends.

Still, its good to hear that the Blu-Ray group is considering the change, and is yet another example why competition is a good thing. I for one hope both formats continue to try and out shine the other as this can only be good for the consumers. In the long term I can see Blu-Ray being the dominant choice in PCs, HD-DVD being the dominant choice for video distributors, and both being equal players in the console world (PS3 = Blu-Ray, X-Box = HD-DVD).

Only time will tell.

 

[Paul.S]

Further sauce for the goose is Sony's possible acquisition of MGM. Various Hollywood Reporter stories say adding that 4,000-title MGM library to its existing titles would give Sony control of '40% of the movies ever made in Hollywood.'

-p

 

[Brian-W]

...and Panasonic and Sony are each others primary competitors, but still co-exist in the Blu-Ray consortium.

I'd bet that WM9 is adopted, almost a 99% certainty because the more support Blu-Ray receives from ANY company, the more likely it is to succeed as the defacto HD optical format.

And the other development of opening up the consortium to new members (i.e. movie studios), every little bit helps.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Brian, there’s a huge difference between being competitors and having an adversarial relationship.

While it may make perfect sense for Blu-Ray to adopt WM9, history has proven, especially in the case of Sony, that some corporate decisions are not motivated by common sense but rather corporate relationships (or lack there of) even at the cost of the company's bottom line.

The fact that Sony isn't the only one calling the shots, we can all still hope that common sense will prevail and Blu-Ray will at least opt for an efficient and higher quality codec.

Unfortunately lossless audio still appears to be a neglected issue with the folks in the Blu-Ray group.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

David, you and I are often of the same mind, but I beg to differ on this day.



That may be the opinion of a small group of audio engineers, but there are some who disagree, and a bunch more that insist on remaining silent.

When there is a scientifically controlled blind test that is peer-reviewed, and finds that DSD is more transparent than high-res PCM, I'll consider it seriously. Until then, the 'fact' that DSD is more transparent than PCM is nothing more than conjecture and anecdote. I'd say the jury is still out, but much of the evidence actually remains unheard at this point...

As far as this Sony news goes, I think it is good news, and I'm damned glad that HD-DVD has been there to force them to compete. Otherwise we'd likely get nothing but an antiquated video codec for Blu-Ray.

 

[Joshua Clinard]

Who cares if Blu-Ray has to compete. I really don't want it to compete, because I don't want a format war.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Michael,

I yield to your more-than-articulate reasoning backed by thoughtful information...

 

[Michael St. Clair]

David,

I certainly agree that Sony has developed excellent products and technology. I see most of their issues as marketing related.

Without Playstation, Sony would be a small shell of what it used to be. They need to gain some more diverse strengths or they'll be in a world of hurt some day.

I hope that this news is the first step of a total merger between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. We don't need a format war in a market (High Def) that is likely to stay a niche for a while.

 

[Paul.S]

MSC, I'm sure you especially will appreciate the following "Lee Scoggins disclaimer preface": this is just my speculation but . . . I think something of a 'format war' (such a grand phrase, no?) is unfortunately a fait accompli, especially if Sony's past behavior regarding technology they have a significant royalty stake in is any indication.

And there's even further sauce for the goose in today's financial news: according to a MergerMarket.com story, now that Sony's 20-day exclusivity window to do due diligence on MGM has expired (last Thursday), guess who is reportedly partnering with leveraged buyout king Kohlberg Kravis Roberts to make a rival bid for MGM. Yup, you guessed it.

Time Warner.

-p

 

[Brian-W]

(your link to the earlier discussion isn't working)

I can't seem to find (maybe I'm going blind...)the discussion, but I can't recall Blu-Ray ever publicly announcing they're evaluating the MS codec.

It's the first time that publicly, Blu-Ray is officially considering WM9. Blu-Ray consortium in the past has always dismissed WM9, and never formally acknowledged evaluating it on a serious level. It's always been 'we are using MPEG-2 and that's good enough for us' attitude. Seems publicly acknowledging this shows the need to get MS support which could entail others falling into line (i.e. maybe Disney).

Anyway, I'm just posting what was in the new Video Business magazine this week

 

[Paul.S]

Brian:

No blindness on your part (but there was no link in my post). It's Alzheimer's on mine--I was confused about something. Apologies for my error. I've edited my post accordingly.

-p

 

[Brian-W]

No worries Paul, I can see where the confusion is...especially me posting updated Blu-Ray info in the HD-DVD thread!

 

[Tony Stark]

Is there a time-table for all these meetings? I am trying valiantly to figure out when all this will be resolved.

These are my estimates with no scientific data -- rather 'un-educated guessing":

I figure 18 more months to refine and work out the A/V details and disc file structures, and (who ever does this) another 12 months to figure out copy protection schemes. Give another year for specs and manufacturing ramp-up time. For a total of 3.5 (or so) years before first discs hit the consumer.


So how far am I out of calibration?

-T

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Columbia is already on record that they fully expect to be releasing titles on Blu-Ray by early 2006, possibly even as early as 4Q 2005. In fact Ben Feingold, President of CTHE in his talk last March at the Digital Hollywood Luncheon suggested that all new releases will be available on Blu-Ray, not simply a select few titles.

I suspect Warner will want to be another early player and so far appears to favor HD-DVD, so it would appear that HiDef DVDs will be available in this country no later than two years and quite possibly even sooner.

Blu-Ray players and recorders are already available in Japan, but I have not yet heard what if any major studio titles are available on Blu-Ray in Japan. And considering that Blu-Ray is still considering modifications, these current players are likely to be incompatible with future releases.