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Frozen 3D Bungle?! (1 Viewer)

MatthewA

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Mary Poppins didn't deserve to win anything, and if My Fair Lady hadn't (deservedly) swept the Oscars that year, Dr. Strangelove would have won. You want to talk about songs that don't advance the plot? If there was a plot and not just a series of loosely connected events leading up to an unconvincing conclusion (that real personal change can ever come from an outside source), I could talk about how the songs didn't fit into it. But that would force me to have to listen to the songs. Not gonna happen. If I never have to be subjected to "Step in Time" or "Feed the Birds," I will die a very happy, very old man. I read the book to see if what I hated about the movie is true about the books. The movie tries to make Mary Poppins more sympathetic unsuccessfully; after the way she threatened to call the police on Michael Banks (Matthew Garber was not that great of an actor, frankly, and I just rewatched The Gnome-Mobile and found him to be the weak link) because he didn't want to go to sleep, I knew I had no use for this vain, narcissistic, mean-spirited pathological liar. Maybe he just wasn't tired! She was even worse in the books. Yet the movie also makes Mr. Banks less sympathetic. It is extremely difficult for me to care about an emotionally abusive father. And Mrs. Banks was just as bad a mother as he was a father, yet Mary Poppins says nothing to her. At least she's supporting a noble cause, although she casually brushes it aside at the end. Why? I thought Bert, who has only one story out of the many in the eight books, did not need to be made into a leading character, and Dick Van Dyke was horrendously miscast (his accent is not just inauthentic, but it is inauthentic in a way that is grating to the ear). And the animated sequences are like a Disney hater's idea of what a Disney movie is like. Those ooey-gooey pastels and that nauseating carousel calliope, and that annoying made-up word song with a made-up word they didn't make up! Uggh!

And after losing 80 pounds to do something about my childhood obesity, I'm living proof that a spoonful of sugar does not, in fact, make the medicine go down. Why do the same types who complain about the Princesses and Song of the South let them off the hook for this?

I saw Saving Mr. Banks to see if I felt the same way I always have, even as a child. And guess what, I do. It has also made me a non-fan of anything by Helen Lyndon Goff. She hated the art of animation. And considering what happened to the boy she adopted (out of a set of twins she broke up), she's the last person who had any right to give advice on child-rearing in any form. But I agree with her on the movie version of her books and that some, but not all, of her reasons for being suspicious of Disney making her work were valid. It is a poor adaptation of an overrated book series.

I also do not agree that The Happiest Millionaire and The Jungle Book (one of the most flat-out fun Disney scores) are "soulless." That word denotes a work made with no conviction or care, a word that does not describe either of those works or any of the Shermans' subsequent works. Yet everyone is compared negatively to the vastly overrated Mary Poppins using criteria that would also indict Mary Poppins as well. Every single, solitary review of Jungle Book, Chitty, Millionaire, Family Band, Bedknobs, etc., I have ever read—even the good ones—invokes the name of this film with absurd reverence as if their lack of originality allows them to ignore how many things in Poppins were done before in other movies, too. The cloud gag was stolen from Dumbo, the mirror that talks back was stolen from Babes in Toyland (which, except for the scenes with Tommy Kirk and Ed Wynn, was even worse), the line "in the most delightful way" was taken from Gigi, and so much of this "daddy doesn't love me" stuff was also done before, and I dare say better, in Song of the South and the stage version of The Sound of Music. And as for being set in London in 1910, the books were set in the 1930s, which was then the present day. You don't think the fact that My Fair Lady was also set during that era didn't have something to do with why they moved the setting back 20 years. It makes more sense for there to be a bank run during the Great Depression.

The Sherman Brothers can and have done better. In fact, many of the films they worked on are worth watching because of their contributions. They knew a damn sight more about storytelling than the Nine Old Men proved they did without Walt, or rather, they learned on the job.

I have other reservations with the film, too, but they fall outside the realm of acceptable HTF discussion.
 

Ejanss

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MatthewA said:
And after losing 80 pounds to do something about my childhood obesity, I'm living proof that a spoonful of sugar does not, in fact, make the medicine go down. Why do the same types who complain about the Princesses and Song of the South let them off the hook for this?
(It's....like...one of those "metaphor" things they taught you about in English class.
Y'know, like, you're not actually supposed to go feed birds in the park every day.) :P
 

MatthewA

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Considering how many commercials for nutritionally suspect cereals kept the animation industry alive during the lean years of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, and considering that Richard M. Sherman himself said he got the idea from the fact that his son got sugar as a chaser with his polio vaccine, I'd say it was meant to be both literal and figurative. I believe sugar did as much to shorten Walt Disney's lifespan as tobacco cigarettes did.

Yes, it's a metaphor, just not a very good one. Let it go. :P
 

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Everything in moderation, including sugar, oh and diets don't work and nor does cutting things out of your diet you like, take it in moderation and enjoy your life, walk to work, don't take the car, that'll be your exercise for the day.

A spoonful of sugar used to make the medicine go down real well, this was back in the days when medicine tasted bad, i remember cough medicine tasting awful, my parents added a little sugar, it helped me consume the medicine, i'm not overweight.
 

MatthewA

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One spoonful individually may not kill you. But what about multiple spoonfuls over a long period of time, especially when more and more foods are being made with it?

I tried "everything in moderation." It didn't work until I eliminated sugar, and I was running very long distances.But the "Shary Bobbins" Simpsons episode is a very funny critique. When Shary leaves after single-handedly turning them into a "functional" family, the family resorts to its old ways again, and Shary becomes an alcoholic. Marge consoles her by telling her, "you can't change this family." People just do not change from without like that. It does not happen in real life. It didn't happen to my Dad, who loved this movie when he was a kid.
 

FoxyMulder

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MatthewA said:
One spoonful individually may not kill you. But what about multiple spoonfuls over a long period of time, especially when more and more foods are being made with it?

I tried "everything in moderation." It didn't work until I eliminated sugar, and I was running very long distances.
Everyone's genes are different, for example some people smoke into their nineties, others die of cancer, some people consume lots of sugar and don't put on weight, other people put on the weight easily, too many variables to consider here.
 

MatthewA

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I have a thin father and an obese mother, and my mother has type 2 diabetes because of her weight. I do not have good genes in all respects.

Diets don't work because people go back to their old eating habits once they reach their goal weight.
Poppins earned its Oscars, Frozen GOT LUCKY.
They didn't give Best Actress to Julie Andrews for acting. They gave it to her for singing and to punish Audrey Hepburn because Jack Warner wouldn't lower the keys to a range she could sing comfortably. And also because this was 1964, the year when anything British caught the public's eye because of The Beatles. Look at the major winners and nominees that year. Now, you may call it luck, and you may call it fortune, but me myself, I call it fortuosity. ;)

I have been going through Moose, Robert B. Sherman's posthumous autobiography. He revealed some shocking facts about being diagnosed from bipolar disorder, finding it hard to find work during the "Hollywood hates musicals because Hello Dolly Camelot Paint Your Wagon Annie" era and going through financial problems during the 1980s as a result. They made amends with Disney long enough to write some more theme park songs, but during the early years of Eisner, an executive told them flat out they "wanted to work with younger composers." During that time, Mary Poppins received an award as the second-best selling video of all-time (it lost to Deep Throat). Dick and Bob got an engraved plastic plaque, but not even tuppence from the video sales. He does not speak very well of Robert Stevenson, though.
 

Ejanss

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MatthewA said:
I have a thin father and an obese mother, and my mother has type 2 diabetes because of her weight. I do not have good genes in all respects.

Diets don't work because people go back to their old eating habits once they reach their goal weight.
Y'know, people, I think he's actually NOT kidding, here? :blink:

(Remember that scene in Saving Mr. Banks, where Travers says "You've got her dancing around singing songs about sugar!"?....You're starting to sound like that. Slightly Unclear On the Concept taken to the max. In fact, since the days of 60's comics, I believe you're the only other person in history to bring up diet issues with the movie, and be serious about it. If it was a joke, it would've expired three posts ago....Dang, that's scary.
Yes, I'm old enough to remember the 70's too, back when Disney was the Monolithic Cultural Establishment, and "Mary Poppins" was the symbolic codeword--mostly by those who hadn't seen it, or were punishing it for "Sound of Music"--for safe, establishment-approved G-rated entertainment for the masses who wanted to avoid the "frank" times, but...DUDE: Those Peter Ellenshaw paintings. And Dick Robert Petrie Van Dyke.
Come join us in the world of home theater nuts, where every movie is judged as a movie, and leave your childhood issues behind.)
 

MatthewA

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Y'know, people, I think he's actually NOT kidding, here?Come join us in the world of home theater nuts, where every movie is judged as a movie, and leave your childhood issues behind.)
You're the one who's uncomfortable with any non-passive female heroine or anything remotely resembling gay-friendly content, but I'm the one with issues? And all this from the guy who hates Who Framed Roger Rabbit, a film with a technically superior blend of live-action and animation to all its predecessors and successors (the absence of an uncanny valley effect is a huge plus in my book)?I'm not the only one who dislikes the film. Michael Barrier makes some very good points in his biography of Walt Disney, especially about Mr. Banks getting his job back without any repercussions and the whole Admiral Boom business, as well as on his website. And here's a review of Saving Mr. Banks from a fan of the books who hates the movie and can only bring himself to praise the Sherman Brothers' songs. Jeffrey Wells, whom I seldom take seriously for his criticism of people who know quite a bit more about aspect ratios than he, used his favorite word in (justly) accusing the film of "emotional fascism."Peter Ellenshaw's talents have also been put to better use elsewhere, as have Dick Van Dyke's. This isn't even the best film Disney made in 1964 with Karen Dotrice in it. This is.

If you're willing to challenge popular opinion on Frozen, this film has been begging for it for 50 years. And since you brought up The Sound of Music, that's the one for which Julie should have won the Oscar.
 

Aaron Silverman

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Stop beating around the bush, Matthew! Tell us how you really feel. :)(BTW, the "best Disney/ Dotrice film of 1964" link is broken. What is it?)
 

haineshisway

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Is this thread actually about anything? :) Just finished watching Frozen on Blu-ray - didn't love the film, but the transfer is state of the art flat out glorious, as is the sound.
 

Ejanss

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MatthewA said:
If you're willing to challenge popular opinion on Frozen, this film has been begging for it for 50 years. And since you brought up The Sound of Music, that's the one for which Julie should have won the Oscar.
Well, that's the difference, y'see--No matter how you may feel about Poppins, at least it wasn't a mess. :D
(And you liked Sound of Music??)
haineshisway said:
Is this thread actually about anything? :) Just finished watching Frozen on Blu-ray - didn't love the film, but the transfer is state of the art flat out glorious, as is the sound.
It WAS going to be about conspiracy theories about what vile plots Disney had up their sleeve by "hiding" the 3D (yeesss, ehhhhh-xcellent...Now that we've got our hands on the Star Wars Unaltered Original Trilogy too, we'll hide them in the same vault! ), but...don't they sound sorta silly by now? :rolleyes:
 

Robert Harris

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MatthewA said:
They didn't give Best Actress to Julie Andrews for acting. They gave it to her for singing and to punish Audrey Hepburn because Jack Warner wouldn't lower the keys to a range she could sing comfortably. And also because this was 1964, the year when anything British caught the public's eye because of The Beatles. Look at the major winners and nominees that year. Now, you may call it luck, and you may call it fortune, but me myself, I call it.
Please tell me that you don't honestly believe that Academy members "punished" Ms Hepburn.The lady had a sweet and lovely voice, but as hard as she tried, and she tried Very hard, she was not a professional singer. She was a beloved and extraordinary actress.I don't know that Mr. Warner can be faulted for not giving the lead roll in a twelve million dollar production to someone, who at the time of casting, was a relatively risky investment. Place yourself in his shoes.As an addendum to my post, as I recall, Lawrence of Arabia came in a approximately the same cost, two years earlier.RAH
 

MatthewA

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Ejanss said:
It WAS going to be about conspiracy theories about what vile plots Disney had up their sleeve by "hiding" the 3D (yeesss, ehhhhh-xcellent...Now that we've got our hands on the Star Wars Unaltered Original Trilogy too, we'll hide them in the same vault! ), but...don't they sound sorta silly by now? :rolleyes:
There is no conspiracy. For there to be a conspiracy would require more long-term planning than I see here.
 

John Maher_289910

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Anyone who thinks MY FAIR LADY is good cinema, knows nothing about good cinema (or good film versions of stupendous stage musicals, either). As for FROZEN, I see my Amazon UK order is still intact for the 3D version, so I suppose they are actually going to released it!
 

TonyD

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John Maher_289910 said:
Anyone who thinks MY FAIR LADY is good cinema, knows nothing about good cinema (or good film versions of stupendous stage musicals, either). As for FROZEN, I see my Amazon UK order is still intact for the 3D version, so I suppose they are actually going to released it!
I think that making a Point by insult is poor taste
 

MatthewA

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Robert Harris said:
Please tell me that you don't honestly believe that Academy members "punished" Ms Hepburn.The lady had a sweet and lovely voice, but as hard as she tried, and she tried Very hard, she was not a professional singer. She was a beloved and extraordinary actress.I don't know that Mr. Warner can be faulted for not giving the lead roll in a twelve million dollar production to someone, who at the time of casting, was a relatively risky investment. Place yourself in his shoes.As an addendum to my post, as I recall, Lawrence of Arabia came in a approximately the same cost, two years earlier.RAH
Let me watch The Unsinkable Molly Brown and get back to you on that one.
John Maher_289910 said:
Anyone who thinks MY FAIR LADY is good cinema, knows nothing about good cinema (or good film versions of stupendous stage musicals, either).
Tell that to Robert A. Harris or either of the Sherman Brothers, who bore no ill will to their competitor. In Moose, Robert Sherman had some very nice things to say about it, and when I met Richard M. Sherman, it was at an AMPAS screening of that film. It won 8 Oscars and deserved 9. My Fair Lady is second only to The Sound of Music as the best film based on a Broadway musical. It's one of the few whose material justified the reverentially faithful treatment it got, which all too few shows get in the first place (and these days, shows are lucky to get made into movies at all). But unlike you and that film, I have seen Mary Poppins more than once, and I did not like it at all, and I liked it less and less each time I tried to watch it. Once I saw more of the Sherman Brothers' other musicals (and some of the better non-Sherman musicals of that era), I realized I had no use for it at all. The songs are annoying, the story is nonexistent, the performers are miscast (Angela Lansbury was considered for the title role and, frankly, would have been more appropriate), and the tone mixes uncomfortable sentimentality and unnecessary mean-spiritedness. It never should have been made, and no, a remake would not be better. It already happened, anyway. If Julie had done My Fair Lady, Disney shouldn't have given Ms. Goff the time of day. Mary Norton was ten times the writer she was anyway.
 

Ejanss

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MatthewA said:
The songs are annoying, the story is nonexistent, the performers are miscast (Angela Lansbury was considered for the title role and, frankly, would have been more appropriate), and the tone mixes uncomfortable sentimentality and unnecessary mean-spiritedness. It never should have been made, and no, a remake would not be better. It already happened, anyway. If Julie had done My Fair Lady, Disney shouldn't have given Ms. Goff the time of day. Mary Norton was ten times the writer she was anyway.
Except that according to insiders who were there, Walt listened to the Brothers test out their songs for Mary Norton as an anti-Goff backup, and.....fell asleep at the meeting.
Were it not for David Tomlinson and Angela Lansbury, one might be inclined to agree.

And to drag this thread back kicking and screaming from the vulture-claws of childish petulance, I'd put even the worst Poppins song up against "Fixer Upper".
 

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