Budget Receiver Shootout! (1 Viewer)

[LinChen]

Merci beaucoup Steven! I'll give it a try tonight.

Lin

 

[KC Alewine]

StevenK,
How well does the Pioneer VSX-D811S work as a pre/pro with your Newcastle 9080 amp? I have an opportunity to pick up a 9080 amp and like the idea of having all the bells & whistles of the 811S.
Or have you decided to go with the Yamaha piece? In either case, how about your thoughts about using these low-end receivers as pre/pros?
Very, very nice job with the initial review, by the way
KC

 

[Norman L]

Does the Yamaha 5560 have DTS-Discrete?
Best Buy adds say it does.
Please advise
http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=...1&cat=3&scat=4

 

[aness]

FYI,
Only if you care, some do.

I will be having the Yamaha 630 (5560) and the Pioneer 811s tested for 5-channel watt output at the same lab that tested the Onyko 600 which tested at 34w x 5.

Pioneer 811s claims 100x6 I hope it is within 60%
Yamaha 630 (5560) 75x6 I hope it is within 60%

I feel it is problematic when you have to hope you get 60% of what they advertise.

 

[aness]

Sorry,

The above is from NORMAN L
aness is normanl on my work computer.

 

[KC Alewine]

Norman L
I've been looking at this receiver as well. It appears Best Buy made a big boo boo! DTS-ES matrix yes, descreet, no.
From the specs found at a Yamaha on-line retailer:
Surround Modes: In addition to straight Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic, and DTS playback, you can choose from the following decoding modes:
Dolby Digital/DTS EX: this format MATRIX ENCODES a third surround channel onto the left and right surround channels of 5.1 soundtracks.

 

[ThomasL]

Norman, I'd definitely be interested in those test results. I may be picking up the Onkyo SR600 tomorrow at Cambridge Soundworks just to try it. I don't think power will be an issue with me so it'll be more a decision on sound and features. I only have 10 more days in my 30 day return window for the Pioneer. For me, I think it'll come down to which one sounds better with 2 channel music.

As for the Yamaha HTR-5560, it does not do DTS-ES Discrete or DTS Neo6. You need to step up to the 5490 to get those. While there are very few titles with DTS-ES Discrete, I watched Gladiator with the Pioneer 811S and it was excellent. And I've found I prefer DTS Neo6 for stereo/surround tv viewing.

cheers,


--tom

 

[Adam C.]

have you had it tested in the lab yet? Do you know when you will test it? Thanks.

 

[Norman L]

I just returned from the lab.

Both were tested with 500Mv input and reasonable distortion levels .05-.2

The Yamaha 5560 tested with 6-channel stereo at 15volts =
28 watts/ch.

The Pioneer 811s tested with 6-channel stereo 25volts =
78 watts/ch. The distortion level increased rapidly, if the volume was increased past -6 on the dial with 0 being the maximum.

I do not know what that means in the real world of listening.

I hope this info is helpful, I am not a technical person, so I can not answer detailed questions.

 

[LinChen]

Thank you, Norman. The test result is so interesting!

 

[KC Alewine]

Hey Norman,
I know it's probably too late to test the receivers you already have results for, but in the future could you also have your lab test for the 'two-channels driven' specs in addition to the 'all-channels driven' voltage and wattage numbers?
The 'two-channels driven from 20-20000 Hz' value is the only standard the manufacturers cannot make excuses for. If a manufacturer fails to meet those specs, he probably going to have the FTC knocking on his door.
Finally, just so we have something concrete to compare your test results with, how about having the same lab test a higher-end receiver that should have little problem (hopefully) outputting the advertised wattage with all channels driven? Suggestions?
I don't know how much you're spending out of your own pocket to check these receivers out, but rest assured we appreciate your time & effort.
Actually, doesn't this sounds like something you could make a few bucks on instead of just spending your own cash. I'd bet you could sell some advertising on a website that had up-to-date "real world" values for popular receivers
Keep up the good work.
KC

 

[Adam C.]

you said the pioneer distorted past -6...what is minimun volume? Thanks. After seeing the results, I might have to go with the d811s. Thanks

 

[Norman L]

I just returned from the Home Entertainment Show in NYC.

A Denon person advised me, after I questioned him about the new line, that the 1803 coming out in August will be like the 2802 but with more.
1803 will have 90 watts, 6.1, 2 center surround speakers, preouts for another room and I do not remember what else.

The 2803 and 3803 will not be out for 5 or 6 months.

 

[Adam C.]

Norman,

you said the pioneer distorted past -6(0 was max)...what is minimun volume?

 

[ThomasL]

The Pioneer's volume scale is -90 (minimum) to 0 (maximum). I've never had mine higher than -36.

cheers,


--tom

 

[Norman L]

Tom,

Thanks for the info, -6 sound like it surely will NEVER be used.

The problem with the test is that no speakers are connected just instruments so -6 has no realistic meaning.

BTY, at a lower volume to achieve 60-watts at 2 channels, the 6 channels were also at 60-watts, which is very good.

I hope this is helpful. For me it is extremely important due to the B & W speakers in my bedroom that need 35 watts when they are played loud by the source. I am now confused about waiting for the 1803 by Denon or keeping the 811s.

 

[ThomasL]

Norman, you're welcome. I probably should preface my post by saying what I'm running off of it. I have CSW Newton series speakers - 2 M50 bookshelves for the fronts, an MC300 for the center and two pairs of S300s for the rear/surrounds. We sit about 8 feet from the tv in the sweet spot. My room is fairly small 14wx13lx8h approx. and we don't listen at reference levels. -35 to -40db would be around 60-65db with the Avia test tone calibration. So, assuming the exact same setup, probably somewhere between -25 to -30db would put one ~75db level. But 60db is plenty loud for us. Some movies may require a nudge up from there but only a few notches and the only one with the 811S I can think of that required it was _The Others_. The dialogue in this movie just seemed extremely quiet and low key.
Anyhow, I must agree, if I knew Denon was going to come out with an 1803 that would have the features of the 2802 and the price of an 1802, I might have waited till the end of the summer. Well, there's always the dark side of the upgrade path
cheers,
--tom

 

[Norman L]

Tom,
Don't feel bad, I think you bought the best of the lot at that price point. Meaning, Yammie, Onkyo, HT (good power, honest reporting but lacks some features)and Denon 1802.

I would have done the same after returning the Onkyo 600, I had to come up with the cash for the Denon 2802 for my family room since the 811s was not available yet and I didn't know it was coming.

 

[ThomasL]

Norman, I was very close to splurging and picking up the Denon 2802 at Tweeter, our local retailer that sells it. But Tweeter would not budge from the $799 list price. They would only match other local retailers. In the end, $800 was just too much to spend for this homeowner who, unfortunately, doesn't have an unlimited supply of $$$
cheers,
--tom

 

[Norman L]

Tom
I was lucky I found out about the Amex price match.
My net was $528 for the 2802 and I got it at an authorized dealer.

Amex still does it with the Gold and Plat card.