Blu-Ray 5th Element -> Possible Bad Transfer. (1 Viewer)

[BrandonJF]

??? Are you inferring that since Sony isn't using VC1 that there must be some problem with it that is somehow transparent right now?

I don't think we need to worry about Sony looking brilliant for using MPEG2 for HD content on a 25GB disc. They might come out looking ok in the long run for backing Blu-Ray once 50GB discs are doable and they use a more efficient codec. Heck, maybe with a 50GB disc, they can get away with MPEG2.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I don't know what Sony is going to use in the long run, but if VC-1 is best, they should be using that. If MPEG4 is best, that should be the choice. I would think Sony knows what will result in the best picture given space and compression requirements. Apparently "House of Flying Daggers" is sub-par and apparently only "Terminator" and "Underworld Evolution" good enough to be considered average for HD DVD. It is hard to understand, but it is not too late for Sony to right the ship.

Chris

 

[RobertR]

Unfortunately, corporate politics (and Sony's attitude as evidenced by their double/triple dipping practices with DVD) are such that even if Sony "knows" what will result in the best picture, that doesn't necessarily mean applying that knowledge will be their top priority.

 

[Rob_HD]

No - all studios have had to depend on Sony to do the authoring and production for launch - as stated above.

You're confusing this with Sony Pictures, I think.

 

[Paul_Scott]

There are artifacts. And you don't have to look tooo hard or too long to find them.
I had to go return something that I bought yesterday and they had TFE up and running. After the inital wow of seeing the colors, I sat down to critically look at the picture and within a half a minute you can see this is a 'compromised' image. Again I saw macro blocking in areas of more or less solid color (just like on the House/Dagger pic yesterday), i slo mo'd it to make sure it was the disc and not the display and yup- its the image on the disc.

The most consistent criticism I have with both of these discs is that it just does not look like film. Its flat, its got a haze of digital grit, motion isn't always fluid (it looked 'jittery' in spots), and the image just was not rock solid stable like the VC1 encodes on HD DVD are. Both HOFD and TFE shared several attributes that lead me to the conclusion that MPEG2 is why these just don't look filmlike compared to the other formats titles.
Which is a remarkable feat to pull of as several sequences displayed a flurry of dirt and print damage- and even with that, the illusion of film wasn't being sold.

about the only positives were colors were spectacular and I saw hardly any EE.

Disc also seemed to be pretty light in terms of extras- a 'fact track' that i assume is like pop up text blurbs and two trailers. Whoop de F#ckin doo.

Welcome to Blu-ray- The "it's not about today, it's about what will be the better solution for the future" format. :rolleyes

 

[Chris Gerhard]

The evidence sure points toward Toshiba having made the correct decision to use VC-1 and the Sony decision appears very short sighted or stupid or worse. I can only hope I am wrong and Sony knows what they are doing. If the Microsoft licensing fees are reasonable, Sony may have totally dropped the ball. I have not seen an explanation of the Sony decision so this is all speculation at this point.

Chris

 

[Kelly Grannell]

Now I can only imagine that all my future Disney BD collection will look like that (full of artifacts etc).

Sigh.

 

[Chris S]

I don't think so and maybe we're just splitting hairs here. Sony Pictures Entertainment oversees releases for Columbia TriStar, MGM, and Sony Pictures. So the studios releasing the first batch of titles are all owned by Sony. They're practically the same, which is even more of a reason that these titles should have looked better than they reportedly do.

 

[Rob_HD]

Hi Chris - there are endless threads on this both here and on AVS.

Check it out... What I posted above is fact. Sony (not Sony Pictures, as you keep thinking) has had to do the authoring and production for the initial BD releases of all studios. Sony's tools couldn't do VC1, which is why they have used Mpeg2 (it was not because they REALLY thought it was superior to VC1, trust me).

 

[Paul_Scott]

this thread:
http://s8.invisionfree.com/MHVF/inde...showtopic=5203

look for posts by Don May Jr.
the information is parroted over on AVS in one of the threads in the HD DVD forum iirc.

add that to post 2125 from this thread:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...222163&page=71
by our own dashing David Boulet and that should give you a good picture of the situation.

 

[Dave Mack]

"Welcome to Blu-ray- The "it's not about today, it's about what will be the better solution for the future" format. "

Or to some because it costs more that means it MUST be better. And because I can afford it and many others can't that means "I" must be ___________"

(Insert comment)

I for one can't believe all of the apologists. Can it look better? Maybe? Does it now? All accounts say no.
It's like buying a house where the homebuilder says, "One day you will have a 2 story house here and not this ranch that doesn't even look as nice as the one next door! Don't worry, we will build it. You will enjoy it. It'll be better than the ranch house next door! Of course we can't build the top floor now and won't tell you when we will but don't worry, it will happen one day. When WE decide to do it for you! Meanwhile pay us for the total cost of the 2 story house RIGHT now!!!!"

Yup, many people need cluephones out there.

 

[TravisR]

The first batch of DVDs in 1997 weren't exactly encouraging either but that format turned out to be pretty good. Just because it isn't good now doesn't mean that every title will be crap. Conversely, I can't read the future so Blu Ray may be an utter disaster. Either way, it's a little early to call it.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

exactly. If everybody can say "BD will be better in the future", so why can't the same be true with HD DVD? (which is, currently, clearly better and far cheaper than BD)

 

[Kelly Grannell]

Well, every title I want to buy happens to be crap :frowning:

 

[Chris S]

Thanks Paul! I really appreciate the help!

 

[Ed St. Clair]

Any reviews with direct comparisons of the BD & SB editions for this title?
Thanks.

 

[Travis Hedger]

Here here!

I simply could not have stated this better myself.

This is really disappointing as T5E is one of my favorite movies. For Sony to drop the ball like this for a debut BRD is simply in-excusable. Are they gonna roll out the double dip train for Blu Ray too?

"Now mastered from a proper source for the best picture!" when, in fact it should look better than ever on BRD right now.

 

[Ryan-G]

While this post is true, I think it's a little unintentionally misleading.

Sony provides the Authoring Tools, which do not support VC1. Sony is manufacturing the initial releases because IIRC their manufacturing plants are the only ones able to replicate BR discs at the time.

At some point in the future Sony *could* release authoring tools with VC1, or they could continue their feud with MS and hold back on it. At some point in the future other disc manufacturers could offer BR Replication, and the other Studios are free to have them replicate instead of Sony. At some point in the future Studios or 3rd party developers could offer BR Authoring Tools that support VC1. Unfortunately, this is too many "Could's" for my tastes.

Sony's handled this poorly, there's no reason for VC1 to not be an option right now short of their feud with MS. There's no reason for VC1 not to be present, they've had plenty of time to include it. From what I'm reading, it sounds like Mpeg 2 was a major mistake, though I won't get to look for myself until Thursday when I can go for a window shopping trip.

Right now, I'd say Toshiba/MS have an advantage here, they could capatilize on it and have the underdog win if they can get hardware to market faster and/or cheaper.

I'm also having concerns about the PS3's abilities now, if VC1 support isn't available now, how's the PS3 going to handle it in November? Alot of potential for compatibility problems there, making their selling point something of an achille's heel.

 

[PeterTHX]

Ironic one of the BD demo clips was "Chicken Little", with all "the sky is falling" type posts here. Probably predicting initial over-reaction.

What we need here is an apples to apples comparison:

$499 Toshiba vs $499 PS3
Identical Warner discs mastered in VC-1.

Then lets see what happens.

 

[PeterTHX]

The ability to decode it is in the Blu-ray spec. Regardless of what authoring tools are used/available.