Ascend Questionable Warranty Inquiry Response (1 Viewer)

[Doug Brewster]

David Fabrikant

You are truly a good guy.

I have considered Ascend Acoustics, but have only a 12" shelf on which to place them. I just don't have enough room to allow them to breathe.

After reading your response, I am truly sorry that I can't buy them. I believe you represent a truly honorable company.

Sign Me,

New Fanboy

 

[James Edward]

My first thoughts when reading the initial post were that it is almost always TWEETERS that are blown when an amplifier clips, and WOOFERS blow when there is too much clean power applied beyond the speaker's limit. So, I just wonder whether the clipping issue is truly to blame.

In 35 years of hi-fi addiction, I've never seen a 'blown' speaker manifested in this manner (as Jason's pictures show). In fact, last week I was testing an old tube preamp, and fried the woofers in a small pair of speakers during a turn-on transient. They looked fine from the outside, but I smelled smoke, and when I pulled the driver apart, the voice coil was welded together in spots.

I don't want to join in the fray one way or another- but it seems to me that Ascend might want to look at the driver and see if the cone/surround material failed. And Jason, try decaf.
I hope I get in before the lock...

 

[Jason Garrett]

Fanboys, like I said. Like it or not, obviously the depiction is accurate. When you come to a forum to express dismay with a customer service experience and the very customer service representative that you had contact with makes statements on the message board to defend board members – you’ve got fanboys, in my opinion.

I would agree that Mr. Garcia’s original response wasn’t over the top, but merely addressing the group of apologists as fanboys elicited an impassioned straw man tirade that, in my opinion, was just quite sad if in fact he doesn’t have some stake in your business.


Listen, I conveyed to you in no uncertain terms that I enjoyed the speakers and I hoped that I might either find favorable warranty coverage or some compromise in repair cost. I came to this forum because I was very displeased with the customer service response that I received. I have no apologies for doing so nor do I feel the need to apologize to those who took such an adversarial tone with me over it.

I appreciate that you now make the offer to waive the labor charges. It’s too bad that you wouldn’t do that before it became an issue on a public forum. If I decide to repair the speakers I will do it myself. Thank you.

 

[Jason Garrett]

How did you know I was drinking coffee during one of these posts? lol

Anyway, this is exactly my concern. I have three speakers that have at different times (two at the same time very recently and one many, many months ago)……. Shown torn cone material. I have never seen this before in many years of being an audio enthusiast. Albeit, most of that time associated with car audio.

I can take sharper images if it might help in diagnosis. Truly bizarre.

 

[Jason Garrett]

Here are a few more carefully taken photos of the actual damage to the speakers. As I said before, one of the speakers exhibited this damage originally. Then recently two more and all of them were in the two front left/right positions when blowing.

I make this distinguishment because I question the argument that my receiver is clipping due to it’s power supply. If this is due to an issue related to ‘all channel stereo’ I question why the rear speakers aren’t more deprived possibly than the front stereo main outputs? Those that generally handle the full 170 watts of power? Could it be possible that there were peaks in my power output that simply overpowered these speakers? They claim a power handling of 400 watts peak power. I can’t begin to imagine that my lowly Onkyo reached 400 watts.

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[MitchSchaft]

Everyone here knows that you blew your speakers up by playing way too loud.

Too bad your ears don't have a waranty. Wait about 20 years .

 

[brentl]

Just a thought;

Why not take the receiver to a test facility, have them put a resistive load on your receiver approximating the same load as the Ascends, and run the same type of music with the same settings at the same level as you usually listen as see what they say about the receiver and whether it was or wasn't clipping, and at what level.

Brent

 

[Brian_cyberbri]

This is freakin' ridiculous...

Yes, everyone knows you blew your speakers because you pushed them too hard for too long, Jason.

You even said:


Most people have the sense enough to know what "5-channel stereo" is, so please don't try to spin your insult-slinging at everyone here into "hey, this was a good learning experience for the whole community, guys!"


Pushing full or even crossed-over bass at 5 over reference level on music means the drivers are trying to produce an extreme amount of bass, which means they are moving a lot.

You mention they are 4.5 ~ 5 years old. Perhaps constant wear and tear from your extremely extreme listening sessions over the years has finally pushed the speakers too far.



Ascend/Dave have been more than reasonable. He even offered to fix your speakers for free and yet you're still bitter that he didn't offer to do it up front when you blew 5yo speakers playing them way too loud.

And I know John. He's a great guy. I've had him over to listen to my Ascends, and he owns some other brand I can't think of right now. I still have his Haunting DTS DVD which I feel very bad about not getting back to him, too.

You continue to insult John, David, and the others on this thread.

So don't apologize, Jason. Just keep being an effing @$$hole.

 

[Jason Garrett]

Yeah, that seems reasonable. Why don’t I see if I can find several tens of thousands of dollars laying around to fund a scientific study to repudiated Ascend’s claims of ‘all channel stereo’ being a default reasoning to void warranty.

 

[GaryPL]

I think Dave has been MORE than reasonable in regards to this issue IMO.

IMO, YOU taxed them with a ton of distortion, and have probably been doing it for years.....
I'm surprised they held up as long as they did myself...

I'd take Dave up on his generous offer myself, but thats YOUR decision.. if you want to be mad at dave and Ascend because they didn't OFFER to replaced an abused item in the first place, then so be it.

Good Luck, hope you have good sounds in the future.

muzz

 

[Doug Brewster]

To All:

Please don't attempt to confuse Jason Garrett with facts. He has obviously made up his mind that he has been mistreated by Ascend Acoustics. Any attempts at explaining his responsibility are useless -not to mention, they seem to encourage him to drone on in ignorance. He simply will not believe that he has errored and that overdriving amplifiers is mistreating speakers and will cause harm to them. Nor will he believe that Ascend wants him to be happy. Makes you wonder if he wants to be happy.

To Jason:

Noone here seems to believe Ascend Acoustics produces inferior products or has any intention of ripping anyone off. Even if your speakers were defective, they have offered to work it out with you...however...you may have burned all your bridges. Name-calling and arguing haven't seemed to be successful for you. If you backed off and tried to work things out with people you might find more satisfaction...unless your satisfaction comes from making a public spectacle...only problem is, noone seems to be on your side. In order to agree with you, they'd have to be YOUR fanboy.

Not your Fanboy,

Doug

 

[GaryPL]

FWIW

I've personally seen ripped 18" woofers from overdriving/ clipping bass amps.
I have been in a few bands.......

 

[Tony Genovese]

Actually, the reason for voiding the warranty was your clipping an underpowered receiver over a period of years (by your own admission). Very simple, really.

And, your being honest with Ascend should earn you no brownie points. If you had sent the woofers to them for inspection, your mistreatment of the speakers would have been readily apparent.

 

[Jason Garrett]

I’m not going to continue going through these posts to refute every allegation of abuse or my knowledge of just what 85% of the volume level available in my receiver represents. You guys are a trip. How many words have been wasted trying to come from how many different angles to tell me off about what the 85 on the dial of my receiver represents? Give it a break…..

As anyone who may have ever burned a cd would realize – there is a ‘normalize’ function in the process for a reason. Different sources/recordings have different recording levels or peak levels….whatever the proper terminology is – just let it go. All this talk about what is represented by what on the dial is pointless. 85% might be required for one recording and 70% might be too much. I’m done with the nerd fight over it.

I’ve never claimed that I didn’t play the speakers loud. Hell yes, I like it loud. I played them loud and I played them loud often. It drowns out people like you all and takes me somewhere that I don’t hear your incessant bickering. Personally, I’d love to look through here and see what kind of weak music that the lot of you actually listens to.

My contention was that I believed that they should have handled it. 4.5 years old isn’t 5 years old. 170 watts isn’t 400 peak. The warranty claims certain terms and I believe that I may have been within those terms and I hoped that I would be met with customer service that gave me the benefit of the doubt. That clearly wasn’t the case and I brought my situation to this public forum for all to see what took place. An offer to waive labor charges of $55 an hour isn’t quite the same as offering to honor the warranty. That’s fine though. I can do the repair myself and I will take photos of the process so that anyone else who might find themselves in my position will have reference. I hope that I might save them the $55 an hour in the least.

 

[Tony Genovese]

You are either stupid or obtuse (or? you tell me). The Ascend specs say UNCLIPPED PEAKS. YOU WERE CLIPPING AN UNDERPOWERED RECEIVER. End of story.

 

[Dan Keefe]

Jason you realize that when you "fix" them yourself, that you will probably further void your warranty. You have ripped off your nose to spite your face. You wanted it fixed for free and you got it...at this point you are acting like my 8 year old...throwing a tantrum, because she didn't get exactly what she wanted when she wanted it.

Stop Bashing all the people you asked for help, especially Ascend, who IMO, have gone above and beyond customer service to offer you a free repair.

If you are so offended by the "fanboys" please feel free to stop posting here at any time.

 

[brentl]

"The warranty claims certain terms and I believe that I may have been within those terms"

Exactly what was said above is true, 400 watts is PEAK, which means during transients. Remember the Onkyo does NOT put out 170 watts all channels driven, and when you hit a peak in some of your music you send the receiver into clipping.

It's not my fault if I over rev the engine in my car and it blows up... OH wait, yes it is!

OH, smarty pants, you should be able to go to any repair facility and they should be able to test the output of your receiver.

Brent

 

[Jason Garrett]

Was it unclear that there is no need for the incessant ranting about how I’ve abused the speakers this way or that? What is the obsession with demanding that my receiver clipped during playback? Really odd…. The posting reflects some cult allegiance to Ascend as if Jesus designed and assembled these speakers himself. Was the omnipotent one himself witness to this clipping?

There was no offer to fix the speakers for free, assholes. Yes, I said assholes…. If you’re only purpose is to come to the defense of these posters/ascend and misrepresent what has been offered then you deserve it. He offered to waive the $55 A FUCKING HOUR labor charge. Not honor the warranty. The repair will still cost $180 plus shipping. That’s hardly fixing it for free now is it?

I’ll buy the new drivers and replace them myself. Take photos of what the $55 an hour labor would have accomplished (I think I have a Phillips screwdriver somewhere and FOUR screws might not be too much for me to handle).

You people are really odd. Do you all hang out here and talk home theater all the time and have some bizarre bond of nerdyness that compels you to be so adversarial to anyone that outs an instance of poor customer service from one of your beloved online only manufacturers?

This is a dead issue… the instance of poor customer service has been reported on the board. Let those who read the exchange judge for themselves. I’ll order my replacement drivers and try to be ginger with them. I get the feeling that Ascend might be hurting for money or something. I’m just glad that I didn’t send them in first and find myself met with this attitude.

 

[tundraSQ]

I bet Ascend would love to just buy these speakers back from this piece of work. His response to being offered free repair after all this should have been "Thank you Sir". PERIOD!!!!

 

[brentl]

"The posting reflects some cult allegiance to Ascend "

UH, nope, never heard a pair before, but I am a fan of good quality audio, and responsible listening. Most of us have been into home audio for many years, and we all know the pitfalls of over driving a speaker, but we take responsibilty when that happens and we don't go and whine on a website.

It's obvious that you've taken a stand that most people "in the know" diagreee with, if you were in the right we would have agreed with, you aren't!

How about taking responsibilty for you actions?? and the only attitude I see here is yours of ettitlement and you complete lack of regard for all of the knowledgable people on this site.

I also doubt your receiver puts out more than 50wpc when driving a full range signal to 6 speakers.

Brent