Are you acclimated to Star Trek: TOS Remastered? (1 Viewer)

[jcroy]

While I mostly enjoy the movies they feel too much like they were created as cash grabs. You get some story enhancement for the main series but there's nothing there that's absolutely needed to understand what's going on in the series proper.

In contrast, S2-S4 have a very good feel and tell a compelling story.

For the most part, I found the movies somewhat superfluous too. Almost feeling like several two-part standalone episodes.

With that being said, I was thinking about whether watching the B5 "In The Beginning" movie and going straight to season 2, would have a better "flow" in a marathon rewatch of seasons 2-4. Just by itself, I thought "In The Beginning" seemed like it was kinda extraneous.

I think this will be my viewing project for tonight, to see whether:

"In The Beginning" -> "Points of Departure" (1st ep of season 2) -> "Revelations" (2nd ep of season 2)

has a decent "flow" to it.

 

[jcroy]

"In The Beginning" -> "Points of Departure" (1st ep of season 2) -> "Revelations" (2nd ep of season 2)

I just finished watching this sequence ^. It turns out it actually works great.

"Points of Departure" feels like it wraps up the loose ends from "In the Beginning", in regard to the Earth-MInbari war.


(Some possible spoilers).

"Points of Departure" feels almost like a 12 years later continuation of "In the Beginning", where a renegade Minbari war cruiser shows up to Babylon 5 to settle some unfinished business with Sheridan.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Wow! Late to this thread!!

In regards to Star Trek:TOS, for the record, I "cherry picked" favorite episodes of the VHS release. (I never really thought of VHS as a collector medium and couldn’t afford LD at the time.) When the series came to DVD, I purchased all of the 2 episodes/disc versions as they were released; then the first DVD series release; then Season 1 of TOS-R on HD-DVD/DVD flippers; and then, finally, the Blu-rays.

When I view TOS these days I almost always opt for the CGI effects. I think "The Doomsday Machine" was the ep that pushed me 100% to the new effects. Viewing that ep now is almost like watching a mini Summer movie rather than an episode of a TV show.

In regards to "Babylon 5"', I agree that Seasons 2-4 were the best; but Season 1 contains so much set up that it remains essential viewing. Season 5 is stronger in the second half than the first, but I usually do skip to the last episode, "Sleeping in Light", which was actually filmed at the end of Season 4. I don’t care how many times I view that Ep: It always invokes the tears.

All in all, it's lamentable that as we sit here in mid-2016 we are inundated with quality genre' TV series -- almost all of which are Superhero based. We really need "Discovery" to be great to start the pendulum back to Space Exploration type series!

Live Long and Prosper!

 

[jcroy]

In regards to "Babylon 5"', I agree that Seasons 2-4 were the best; but Season 1 contains so much set up that it remains essential viewing. Season 5 is stronger in the second half than the first, but I usually do skip to the last episode, "Sleeping in Light", which was actually filmed at the end of Season 4. I don’t care how many times I view that Ep: It always invokes the tears.

If one has never seen Babylon 5 before, then season 1 should be viewed in its entirety for the background information.

If one has already seen Babylon 5 in full already and one wants to do a marathon, at this point I would watch the "In The Beginning" movie first and then watch through season 2-4. Previously I did marathons of watching only seasons 2-4 over a long weekend.

At the this point, I'm trying to figure out where the "Thirdspace" movie would fit it during the middle of season 4, and whether it would keep up with the fast paced "flow" of the entire season 4. I thought Thirdspace was unintentionally funny, but not essential viewing.

 

[Jason_V]

Okay, I'll take a stab at defending B5 Season 5. Yes, it does feel like the season is split into two distinct different arcs: the telepath crisis and then "the ending." It doesn't always mesh and I got bored with the telepath stuff fairly quickly. However, much like DS9's Final Chapter, the last 4 or 5 episodes of B5 really got me.

I mean, full on tears and my heart hurt. "Sleeping in Light" is a beautiful finale. Sheridan's monologue to David in "Objects at Rest" is something I reference quite a bit in my life...and speaks to me in my soul.

Lochley isn't Ivanova, but really...did she have any chance at filling those shoes? No. The best she could have done was make the character her own and unique. Which Tracy Scoggins did.

I started a B5 rewatch from "The Gathering" last year. Made it through S1 (yes, it was a chore) and haven't started S2 yet. My plan is to get through the series and then do the movies. For me, much of B5's mystery and story revolves around the events of The Line and if you watch "In the Beginning" at any point before it was actually aired, you lose some of the mystery. The other movies are fairly forgettable; I think I've seen them once, maybe twice. They didn't make any impact on me whatsoever.

 

[jcroy]

Okay, I'll take a stab at defending B5 Season 5. Yes, it does feel like the season is split into two distinct different arcs: the telepath crisis and then "the ending." It doesn't always mesh and I got bored with the telepath stuff fairly quickly. However, much like DS9's Final Chapter, the last 4 or 5 episodes of B5 really got me.

I found the second half of season 5 with the Centauri republic falling and "the ending", easier to watch than the telepath storyline in the first half of season 5.

I started a B5 rewatch from "The Gathering" last year. Made it through S1 (yes, it was a chore) and haven't started S2 yet. My plan is to get through the series and then do the movies.

If I was doing a proper rewatch of B5 from start to finish over a longer period of time, I would also start at "The Gathering". I would also watch the Crusade episodes in the "continuity order".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade_(TV_series)#Episode_list
https://greysector.wordpress.com/2016/03/18/crusade-the-continuity-order-conclusion/

But for a long weekend marathon, I find season 1 and the Gathering somewhat plodding and tedious to watch through. I like the fast pace and (relatively) coherent storyline over seasons 2->4, in a sitting over 3 days of a long weekend.

I don't know about other folks, but nowadays I find I just don't have the time and patience anymore to watch through a catalog tv series over a longer period of time. (ie. Longer than a 3-4 days long weekend).

For me, much of B5's mystery and story revolves around the events of The Line and if you watch "In the Beginning" at any point before it was actually aired, you lose some of the mystery.

I usually overlook this when I'm watching a long weekend marathon of seasons 2-4 Babylon 5. "In The Beginning" seems to use some recycled footage from flashbacks (originally aired in other episodes) to the Earth-Minbari war.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

I thought I'd join this discussion and make a quick comment about the topic of acclimation.

But first, I won't repeat what I've said already on other threads, but essentially, I've owned Star Trek TOS in every format since the 1980's. I still own the Laserdiscs, which are the same transfers as the VHS tapes as far as I can recall. I sold those tapes, but felt the LD's are worth keeping. When the first edition DVD's came out I was so happy when City on the Edge of Forever came out with Goodnight Sweetheart restored! So every DVD release I still own as well as the current 2006 blu ray. ( I am doubtful I will buy the 50th Anniversary set with the TOS series and TOS films and TAS. But you never know, maybe a good deal will come along)

I have been posting in the Scott Atwell Star Trek thread that on September 8th, like many of you, I've started watching TOS in production order with the original effects. I had taken a year off watching TOS. Prior, I mainly watched the remastered CGI version of TOS. In 2006 I was in Seattle for the 40th Convention and saw for the first time there clips of the remastered Star Trek. It was really exciting. It was something new for TOS and they did the work with respect to the originals. When they first aired, I stayed up till midnight to see Balance of Terror in remastered form. ( though I don't like the way the Romulan ship disappears when clocking, it's not as smooth a fade as the original filmed version!) And I watched each week the entire run and I waited for the DVD releases. I remember reading on the HTF how so many people felt the effects looked cheap or the Enterprise didn't look real and too plastic or too grey or this or that. It didn't bother me if their work wasn't up to the theatrical standards as their goal was to upgrade but try to make it appropriate if Gene Roddenberry had the technology, funds and time to do the effects right in 1966. Of course being CGI and a modern medium, it can never match the live action shots or the actual model shots. But they were done with good intentions. And I remember one CBS executive say that after the live action film elements were restored and looked like it was just filmed, the effects didn't match the live action. So they decided to upgrade the effects. To me, they were great because they were new and novel.

As a side note, some may know that I've been studying the 11 foot model of the Enterprise for years. Some early photos of the model before production began when the model was used in the Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before have surfaced so we kind of knew what it was like then. But this past year has been a watershed of information on that model. So when images were released from the Smithsonian of the restoration and of photos of the model as it last appeared in 1973, I could see in great detail the model and it's original weathering and the paint job before the Smithsonians various paint jobs on the model. So to paraphrase Scotty, I know every millimeter of the ship. And I've been building a 3D model of the ship as part of a multi-year project effort from all this research.

So back to September 8th, I took the time to watch The Man Trap with original effects. What has surprised me is in watching the original effects, the remastered effects film elements, even though they are multigenerational copies and layers of film; a planet, a ship and the star fields, the ship is showing a lot of detail in the film. When I get to later episodes, I'm looking forward to seeing the full production paint job and lighting effects in the nacelles. So to my great surprise and pleasure, I'm really enjoying and sort of rediscovering the series watching with original effects. The CGi is a fun and novel thing, but I think I'm really preferring it as it was originally made. It is a product of the times. It's organic to the live action and it suits it as it should. And I grew up with it that way.

Of course in Charlie X we won't see the Antaries come along-side nor will we see all that dynamic action in The Doomsday Machine. That's ok, we know what happens. The story still gets told. And it's great to hear that new viewers to TOS can still understand and enjoys the story without the enhancements.

Nelson,

Like you, I too have been a fan of the filming model. More so that any theoretical aspect of the the Enterprise. Ever since building my first model of it back when I was probably 9 years old (this would be around 1974), I've been fascinated with it. It was crudely built at the time, but several more versions would be made over the years. I finally got the chance to see the model at the Smithsonian in the summer of 1980 (also got to see The Empire Strikes Back at a 70mm theater in D.C. since we were there the week it opened). Very disappointing to see it hanging from the ceiling with the cheesy red flashing nacelle domes and no real ability to get a close look at it. I took several pictures from the floor below it, and several as best I could from the mid-landing of a nearby staircase. Not the best shots, but it was all I could get.

I imagine you've kept up with the details of the recent restoration? I know there were probably several Trek forums had kept up with it, but I only kept up with the Hobby Talk forum where Gary Kerr kept members updated with info (I know he had a thread over at the TrekBBS forum too, but I hadn't been there in a long time now). There's a particularly long thread about the nacelle lighting that turned into a full-on status thread - including many pictures from members who made it to the Smithsonian's new display. I saved every picture that was posted that I could.

Watching the episodes again - and I've always kind of done this, but I still do it - I'm noting to myself: "First pilot Enterprise, second pilot Enterprise, production Enterprise" whenever the ship comes on screen. It's amazing the mileage they got out of the relatively limited stock shots of the second pilot version of the Enterprise model since that incarnation only lasted maybe a year before it was modified again for regular production.

 

[jcroy]

I don't know about other folks, but nowadays I find I just don't have the time and patience anymore to watch through a catalog tv series over a longer period of time. (ie. Longer than a 3-4 days long weekend).

(As an aside).

This is also the main reason ^ why I find long running highly serialized catalog shows like the original Dallas, Melrose Place, Dynasty, etc ... very difficult to watch nowadays.

Even if a show is very engaging and captivating to watch for me, in practice I find my mind starts to wander off and drift away after awhile. By then I just want to "see the show end", independent of how many remaining episodes are left that I haven't watched yet in sequence.

 

[Nelson Au]

Hi Joel, nice to hear from you. .

Yes, I was following the Hobbytalk thread and one on replica prop forum. I really hoped to have found an image of the final set up the Smithsonian had done for the nacelle lighting. I might have missed it. Gary Kerr is one really lucky fan who was in the right place at the right time to become what he has become! Did you read his article in the UK publication Sci Fi & Fantasy Modeller? He led a charmed life with such access to the original filming model. It's a shame that either the original Christmas lights in the nacelles were removed by the Smithsonian in 1974 or at Paramount. But it's nice enough evidence was left they could get close to replicating it. I'm just really happy the Smithonian did the restoration right this time!

I think that CGI done right can be a very cool and legitimate way to create imagery. The Okuda's and the others doing the remastered TOS had their heads in the right place and they meant well. Looking at it now 10 years later after going back to the original effects, it's looking it's age now. They did do a few very good efforts. The Doomsday Machine and Space Seed has some really nice shots of the ships in space. The Doomsday Machine robot wasn't that badly rendered, though they and maybe the software wasn't quite getting the materials quite right. Of course the hardware today can render complex materials a lot faster so I can see they had limitations.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Space Seed in the original. The original filming model of the Enterprise and Botany Bay were really well done when the Enterprise was coming alongside the Botany Bay. The CGi version was actually really well done too.

The added phaser beams I liked in The Naked Time and that was a legitimate inclusion if in the original production they simply ran out of time or money to add it. The transporter effects were pricey! But it made sense they did little things to help tell the story.

What was the most controversially change from the CGi? One of the most surprising to me is from Wink of an Eye. They digitally made Kirk, Spock and the two security guard arms move so the stun beams would sweep around in the corridor. Stratos the Cloud City was cool, but the model made of foam and cotton created an interesting stylized image evoking for me the Art Deco of the 1930's. A little homage maybe to Flash Gordon. That might explain some of thinking on the CGI as the planet matte paintings done by Max Gobi were extremely realistic verse stylized in the original TOS. His painting of Mr. Flint's majestic home was really cool and I liked. And I can see they wanted to change it from the Rigel fortress painting which was equally realistic looking.

The other controversial change to me was Amok Time. I really liked that they added the city on Vulcan and I liked the expanded vista as it showed the arena in the foreground. That was really well done and the call back to TAS is great. But remembering the original, the time that Kirk and Spock and McCoy walk after beaming down to the entrance of the arena is only a few steps of the limited soundstage size. The CGI was able to extend that walk over the rock bridge. Pretty amazing they pulled that off. There is a incongruity there though if you know the original shot.

 

[JoeDoakes]

First time looking at this thread, it's gone wild!

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Speaking of the model at the Smithsonian, is it there temporarily or permanently? I'd love to see it in person but there's no way I'm gonna have a chance to make it to DC this year.

The first TOS episode I owned on VHS was a copy of Mirror, Mirror that I got at the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum gift shop - my grandmother took me on a train from NY to visit DC when I was about 8 or 9, I had only been into Trek for about a year, knew nothing about episodes I hadn't seen, and after seeing Spock's goatee on the cover, I just had to have that tape. It was a long two days waiting for the trip to end so I could get back home to the VCR

 

[Carabimero]

My understanding is that it's a permanent exhibition, but ultimately, sooner or later, things will get rearranged.

 

[BobO'Link]

(I never really thought of VHS as a collector medium...)

That's my general feeling about VHS/video tape. Star Trek is the *only* commercially produced product I own on tape. And that's because it wasn't airing anywhere close to me and is a all-time Top 10 favorite program. Everything else consists of stuff I recorded off broadcast TV so I could watch it later with a few runs of certain series as a hedge against that day they'd not be in syndication anywhere. I used to work in broadcast and am fully aware of just how fragile tape can be as a storage medium, especially in a home environment with home equipment and the tape paths involved. That alone is what kept me from purchasing more taped product.

 

[jcroy]

Anybody remember the original Battlestar Galactica episodes which were released on VHS back in the 1990s (or 1980s) ?

I have never seen them. Though if I had known about them back in the day, most likely I would have purchased them.

 

[Nelson Au]

Like Alan said, the restored Enterprise model is on permanent display. I'm sure it will stay in its present location a few years. They put a considerable effort to restore it and to build a case thats got air conditioned air flowing into it. I hope to see it in person soon.

 

[Carabimero]

Keep in mind if you go to see it, that they only turn the lights on 3 times a day for a few minutes, so be sure to schedule a time when you can get there and see the lights come on.

 

[Craig Beam]

As much as I love TOS (well, all Trek), I only recently acquired it on home video --- the re-released complete series Blu-ray set (I would've bought it sooner, but it's been on Netflix for quite a while, so it's been readily available; but the lower price was irresistible). I quite like the new effects (for the most part)... the modern effects match up better with the pristine HD image. It also makes the episodes feel more timeless somehow. I could rent the DVDs from the library and enjoy the nostalgia, but I'd rather watch the Blu-rays and immerse myself in something that transcends time. Is that goofy?

 

[Carabimero]

As much as I love TOS (well, all Trek), I only recently acquired it on home video --- the re-released complete series Blu-ray set (I would've bought it sooner, but it's been on Netflix for quite a while, so it's been readily available; but the lower price was irresistible). I quite like the new effects (for the most part)... the modern effects match up better with the pristine HD image. It also makes the episodes feel more timeless somehow. I could rent the DVDs from the library and enjoy the nostalgia, but I'd rather watch the Blu-rays and immerse myself in something that transcends time. Is that goofy?

No, not goofy at all. It's imaginative. I think if Roddenberry read the last part of your post he would be happy.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Like Alan said, the restored Enterprise model is on permanent display. I'm sure it will stay in its present location a few years. They put a considerable effort to restore it and to build a case thats got air conditioned air flowing into it. I hope to see it in person soon.

Keep in mind if you go to see it, that they only turn the lights on 3 times a day for a few minutes, so be sure to schedule a time when you can get there and see the lights come on.

Group field trip?!

 

[Carabimero]

Dibs on the window seat!