_Enterprise_ and the HTF's naysayers...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jack Briggs, Nov 1, 2001.

  1. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    How many episodes have been aired so far? Five?
    And what about the conventional wisdom among diehard fans of the Star Trek franchise? It goes like this: TNG didn't "really take off" until Season Three (though I beg to differ). DS9 didn't get its act together until late into the second season. The casts and crews of both series needed time to develop into true ensembles. By the end of both, fans and outsiders alike praised the two series for their consistence of excellence.
    Voyager, however, put the fans on red alert. As a result, they emerged from the debacle of the third spinoff series disgruntled and cynical (and rightfully so).
    Yet, some of us here are sparing Enterprise no room for misfires. By the second episode, HTFers were posting that they were ready to up on the series.
    Ladies and gentlemen, let's give the program a chance. We are at the beginning of the first season. The show is off to a successful start, IMO. There will be starts and stops and restarts before it all comes together.
    In short, it's too soon to write the series off.
    No?
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  2. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

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    I'm not writing it off, because it has been middlin-decent, if not spectacular.
    However, I also refuse to accept the excuse that the other Treks took time to get off the ground. Remember, back in 1987, TNG was it, once ABC killed "Max Headroom" (well, aside from the local PBS station maybe airing "Dr. Who" and... was "StarCops" out then?). If we wanted to watch SF on TV, we didn't really have a choice in the matter. The landscape wasn't exactly crowded for DS9, and it was good from hour one.
     
  3. Rob Willey

    Rob Willey Screenwriter

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  4. Rain

    Rain Producer

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    Jack,
    I can appreciate your perspective. You are obviously a dedicated Trekkie (or Trekker, if you prefer [​IMG] ).
    However, while I agree that the other ST series got off to rocky starts of their own, this is the first one that has literally bored me to the point of changing the channel. Somehow, it just doesn't feel like Star Trek to me.
    Nonetheless, I intend to check it out again. Perhaps eventually I will make it through an entire episode.
    Unfortunately, I missed this week's episode as I was out seeing Nosferatu with live orchestra.
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  5. Norm

    Norm Cinematographer

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  6. Dan Paolozza

    Dan Paolozza Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks much Jack. Seaver and I went a few rounds on this exact same topic in the "Death of the Franchise" thread, so I'll refrain from repeating myself (even though I love to do it).
    However, I will take this opportunity to bait Seaver [​IMG]
    NO WAY did TNG launch cleanly, without awkwardness or any sense of true "quality." The fact that it was the "only thing on TV in the genre" is not an argument for it's strength of character. Sure, it may have helped it lock down some sci-fi and Trek starved viewers, but it was downright embarrassing at many points in the first season, and only marginally better in the second.
    Yes, Enterprise doesn't have the luxury of being the only game in town. And yes, you are absolutely right with the Babylon, Andromeda, etc analogies. However, what I am getting at (and I think Jack as well) is from a "Trek Fan" point of view. Those past Trek series were by no means "quality" right out of the gate; furthermore, I'd assert that they were on par (give or take various aspects) with what Enterprise has cranked out.
    The best argument you've made is the "how different is it, really, from reruns of the Treks we know we like." That's a good one. And again, I think in time, this series will show us.
    So when we see "trek" fans all in a huffy and crying foul, I think we can't help but wonder...
    [Edited last by Dan Paolozza on November 01, 2001 at 06:23 PM]
     
  7. Anthony Hom

    Anthony Hom Supporting Actor

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    Even though it is using names and references to the Star Trek Series, it technically does not have the Star Trek moniker on it. It's simply called Enterprise, not Star Trek : Enterprise, like the last 3 series.
    So you can't really say it bears the Star Trek name, if you want to be accurate, just it's basic premise and reference points to places and names. [​IMG]
     
  8. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Jack, that was a great point. I have to add to it that it's like a CD. For example - a new group comes out so you buy their CD, and it's great.
    The second one is even better, and third, well you just can't believe that this group is still cranking stuff out that is past your expectations.
    Skipping the fourth, which was even better, you go to pick up #5. Overly critical comes to mind. They've been good in the past, so this one has to be good too, right? But then we didn't like some parts of the first few songs.
    At least that's the way that I take it.
    Glenn
     
  9. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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  10. Patrick_S

    Patrick_S Producer
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    I actually have enjoyed Enterprise so far and will definitely catch the rest of the season.
     
  11. Dave Barth

    Dave Barth Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm enjoying it much more than I did Voyager, although I could see why some people wouldn't.
    I would hope that at some point there are a string of episodes that do not involve the crew investigating caves. Just because they are early explorers doesn't mean they have to go below ground every new place they arrive.
     
  12. Don Peskin

    Don Peskin Stunt Coordinator

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    I like it. I watch it. Nuff said.
     
  13. Jesse Leonard

    Jesse Leonard Second Unit

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    I am not what you would call a Star Trek fan. I have seen most of TOS episodes and when TNG came out I watched it on and off. I never watched a single episode of Voyger or DS9.
    When I heard about this new series coming out that was a prequel to TOS, it got my interest. Then I heard Bakula was going to be the Captain (that even sounded more interesting). Suddenly I was very pumped about this new series (it was actually the only new show this season I was really interested in). I don't think it is because of the Star Trek name but because of the premise and the cast.
    I have seen every episode so far and have really enjoyed them. I know I miss out on alot of the "in" jokes/plot-lines because I don't know much about the other series but Enterprise works for me. I am looking foreward to seeing where they go with it. Seeing how the crew interacts for the first time with new things interests me much more than watching another super-futuristic sci-fi series.
     
  14. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

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  15. Leroy

    Leroy Second Unit

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    Well, I'll give a slightly different perspesctive. I for one really enjoy the show. I think I am in the demographic that this show is really trying to hook-the casual sci-fi fan. The hardcore fans will generally be there simply because it's ST, but it's the casual fan like myself that will make the ratings difference. I know quite a few non trek fans who enjoyed Voyager quite a bit, if ratings were based on the opinions of Trek fan, Voyager would not have been around for 7 seasons.
    Myself, I've never been anything but a casual Trek viewer. But, with Enterprise, I'm hooked. It has a sense of fun that's been missing for a long time, heck it even seems that the people who are in it are having a good time.
    But that's just me. YMMV.
     
  16. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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    Jack, you're a cool guy to give the show some slack - and, of course, you have impeccable tastes in sci-fi, and there's nothing I've enjoyed more than some of our 2001 discussions.
    But I've given 3 hours of my life to this show already. The formula is by now so hackneyed that even eye-poppin' shower scenes can't overcome the overwhelming sense of deja-vu mediocrity that infects this program. There's just too much other good stuff for me to waste my time on a second-rate program like this.
    I just can't lock in to this "allow it to hit its stride" perspective. It's all rote, formulaic, Trekkie stuff done better before. There's been nothing good from this franchise in years. Forcing myself to watch it is not unlike being forced to listen to the same mediocre pop song because of media saturation until you find yourself involuntarily humming along. It's like that song "All Star". It's as utterly lame as anything I've ever heard, but goddamit, "hey now, you're an allstar, getcher game on..."
    Fuck I hate that song, but I'm so brainwashed from overexposure that I can't forget it if I tried. Geezum crow, someone might actually hear me humming it...
     
  17. Dan Paolozza

    Dan Paolozza Stunt Coordinator

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  18. TheoGB

    TheoGB Screenwriter

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    Hmm. It raises an interesting point of why should it be necessary to give it time?
    I wonder, for example, if the other ST series really did get better over time or it was just that we got used to them.
    I think they've definitely made a mistake with Enterprise by providing some really uninspiring episodes early on but I think really we *will* just get used to it.
    I never really liked that much of DS9 and stopped watcing after episode 1. Years later my mate assured me that Season 6 was really fantastic and lent me the first six episodes. What I found were the same ST plots I'd always seen but 'dressed up' in a slightly fancy outer arc. I wasn't very impressed, though in truth there were better episodes in that season.
    With time people will get to like Enterprise. It's pretty much certain that it will go the whole seven series and end up with people thinking fondly of it.
     
  19. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    When ST:TNG first burst on the scene, I was excited, but as I watched the early episodes, I simply got tired of watching Wesley Crusher save the day ad nauseum, so I simply tuned out, and from what I can tell, I might have missed some good stuff, but overall, I don't feel like I missed much. I am getting that same feeling with Enterprise.
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  20. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

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