2023 m3 MacBook Pro and 24” iMac buyers thread (2 Viewers)

[DaveF]

I understand and agree with what you are saying

However, from an Apple fanboy/consumer perspective -- as I do a wealth of comment reading across sites -- there is a lot of disgruntlement across the board that Apple puts these ridiculously outdated configurations in their base models at an attractive price point that most people who know better are forced to upgrade upon.

I’ve seen those comments. I understand them. I don’t disagree. I also know Apple’s gonna Apple. My problem, two years later, is appreciating how the industry believed and propagated Apple’s marketing nonsense on 8GB. I’m glad reviewers and critics are belatedly giving people a more realistic and informed perspective.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

All that said, my wife says that two years later, she’s no longer getting the “out of application“ memory errors like she did initially on her m1 iMac. Something was broken with memory management on m1 Mac’s the first six or 12 months. It’s improved due to whatever combo of macOS improvements and third-party software updates.

I will agree with this as well.

Case in point: I bought a 16GB M1 Mini prior to the Studio being announced. It choked on 16GB. I returned it. This was during the first few moths of Ventura.

My M2 Macbook Air seems to thrive on 16GB of memory with just as many applications opened.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I’ve seen those comments. I understand them. I don’t disagree. I also know Apple’s gonna Apple. My problem, two years later, is appreciating how the industry believed and propagated Apple’s marketing nonsense on 8GB. I’m glad reviewers and critics are belatedly giving people a more realistic and informed perspective.

I don't know what to make of all this.

For two years now, Apple said NOTHING about the way memory was handled on an M1/M2/M3 compared to Intel.

And why would they? I always felt it would be a disaster for them to tell you that these silicon chips handle memory so well you don't need to buy more. That's not good for their bottom line.

We were left here on our own to figure out the memory issues.

Now, finally, someone from Apple is saying 8GB is as good as 16GB.

Well, that's kind of true. It's kind of not.

But we all agree that if you are going to buy a PRO computer from Mac, you don't want 8GB of RAM. I can't fathom why Apple would include it as its base model other than being used as an incentive for people to spend more on their horribly expensive RAM upgrades.

 

[DaveF]

I don't know what to make of all this.

For two years now, Apple said NOTHING about the way memory was handled on an M1/M2/M3 compared to Intel.

And why would they? I always felt it would be a disaster for them to tell you that these silicon chips handle memory so well you don't need to buy more. That's not good for their bottom line.

We were left here on our own to figure out the memory issues.

Now, finally, someone from Apple is saying 8GB is as good as 16GB.

Well, that's kind of true. It's kind of not.

But we all agree that if you are going to buy a PRO computer from Mac, you don't want 8GB of RAM. I can't fathom why Apple would include it as its base model other than being used as an incentive for people to spend more on their horribly expensive RAM upgrades.

Those early reviews are based on the background briefings with Apple, based on Apple’s talking points on what the computer is good for. Many reviews were substantially based on single-app, video-processing flows showing how great they were with just 8GB.

Reviewers weren’t calling out Apple for selling 8GB base models. They weren’t calling out the immediate problems with low memory for professional uses.

Reviewers were clearly writing very much informed by Apple’s messaging.

Apple wasn’t publicly defending their 8GB models, as they are now, because they didn’t need to: the tech industry was selling their message for them. Now that critics are catching up and speaking contrary to Apple’s implicit message, Apple is having to speak explicitly on their claim that 8GB is the new 16GB to defend their model lineup.

 

[DaveF]

For two years now, Apple said NOTHING about the way memory was handled on an M1/M2/M3 compared to Intel.

And why would they? I always felt it would be a disaster for them to tell you that these silicon chips handle memory so well you don't need to buy more. That's not good for their bottom line.

But also, because that’s not true. If 8GB was sufficient, the Studio would come configured with 8GB and that would be that.

But it’s not. Apple knows 8GB isn’t enough. They’re working, clearly, each m-gen, to increase its maximum RAm possible in their fixed, integrated architecture. But because of these decisions and their profit margins they also have to maintain the fiction that 8GB is just fine for everyone and memory doesn’t matter. And also it totally matters and you should spend huge dollars for minimal upgrades.

Which, fine.

The end of all this: Budget for a 16GB model even if you’re a modest pro user, and probably even as a casual web surfer, to be safe.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

The end of all this: Budget for a 16GB model even if you’re a modest pro user, and probably even as a casual web surfer, to be safe.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Apple is vague on everything. Their keynote graphs are a joke. They show you a chart showing how much better their silicon chips are over PCs but don't specify exactly what models they are comparing it to. In this last keynote, they are happy to tell you how much faster the M3 is over the M2 but make no comparison to the M1.

Vloggers have a field day as so much is left up to them to sort out the stuff Apple won't tell you, and unfortunately, they don't always get it right. I am still somewhat considering trading in my two M1/M2 laptops for an M3. Depending on which video you watch, you get different opinions on whether it's worth it. So far, it doesn't seem to be a significant upgrade.

 

[JohnRice]

I'll jump in on the memory topic, since I have (I can't believe it) five, count 'em, five M1/2 Macs (at work and home) ranging in memory from 8GB to 64GB. FWIW, one of them is for sale. For leisurely use, meaning for most normal, everyday people, 8GB is just fine. The 15" MacBook Air I'm typing this on is just about impossible to beat, again, for leisurely use, browsing, forum use, basically what I use it for. And, I as I posted in the 2022 thread, for some reason Amazon often has it for $1049, which comes down to less than $1K if you have an Amazon card. That is a killer MacBook for a lot of people at a pretty remarkable price.

I also use a 8/256 M2 Mini at work for shipping duties. And that works just fine. It actually worked OK for my main computer at work, except I stream music all day, and for some stupid reason, the Music app and AirPlay seem to buffer the music you play and by later in the day, it starts running out of memory, simply because of that. For a while I just restarted it after lunch, but eventually replaced it with an M2 Pro 16GB model, and moved the 8GB to shipping.

So, at least in this specific case of the 15" M2 MacBook Air, you're looking at a 50%, $500 premium(!) simply to go from 8/256 ($1K) to 16/256 ($1,499). I can make some accommodations with the MacBook in order to save $500 just for 8GB of memory.

Then there is the 64/1TB M1 Studio I have at home. I'm sure 32GB would have been just fine, even with some pretty heavy, large image processing, but in the case of that computer, I didn't want to take chances. I basically paid for the extra 32GB by buying an Apple refurb.

So, even though the 8GB fanfare was definitely overblown, don't throw it out with the bath water.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

FWIW, I'm definitely no Apple fanboy, but one should understand RAM on a SoC design (that includes the RAM) will necessarily be more expensive than traditional RAM (on readily upgradeable/replaceable sticks)... even apart from Apple's normal/usual premium margins. The high prices they charge aren't solely because of their high margins.

I haven't looked into how their RAM are designed and such, but basically, more RAM would require more space on the APU silicon (and presumably means larger silicon in at least some cases), and that can be quite expensive compared to traditional RAM sticks.

_Man_

 

[DaveF]

I also use a 8/256 M2 Mini at work for shipping duties. And that works just fine. It actually worked OK for my main computer at work, except I stream music all day, and for some stupid reason, the Music app and AirPlay seem to buffer the music you play and by later in the day, it starts running out of memory, simply because of that. For a while I just restarted it after lunch, but eventually replaced it with an M2 Pro 16GB model, and moved the 8GB to shipping.

That’s basically my perspective: even for basic music playing, 8GB is insufficient since it requires daily rebooting from running out of RAM.

That’s normal / basic non-pro use, and even for that a 16GB system seems necessary.

 

[JohnRice]

I thoroughly explained myself, referencing an abundance of applications, across multiple computers, being put to multiple uses. I don't feel the need to go back and forth on it, so go ahead and knock yourself out. For $500 savings, I can restart the computer a little more often.

 

[Robert Saccone]

As a software developer an 8GB machine has been in my rear view mirror long ago. I typically outfit for the workload I am planning on doing and then up it to have some extra headroom and plan for more being needed as typically happens over time. Unfortunately these machines aren’t upgradeable so I’d rather hedge against not having enough memory.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Starting to hear agreeing opinions in both Podcast and articles that the M3 Pro (not the Max) is not a good buy given the fact that Apple compromised the performance compared to past chips -- especially if moving up from an M2 or an M1 Max.

Seems to be a clever, but shitty way for Apple to move people to the significantly more expensive MAX chips.

Here is a link to one of the sources I heard this from:



Makes me think more about waiting for the M4 next year

 

[Robert Saccone]

For a different take on why they differentiated the Pro and the Max checkout last week’s MacBreakWeekly. Jason Snell discussed it.

The Streisand Effect | TWiT.TV

Jason Snell got his hands on the M3 iMac's and MacBook Pro's. Will Apple update its 27-inch iMac lineup with Apple Silicon? And what the perk of fame can get for you in the world o…

twit.tv

 

[Ronald Epstein]

For a different take on why they differentiated the Pro and the Max checkout last week’s MacBreakWeekly. Jason Snell discussed it.

The Streisand Effect | TWiT.TV

Jason Snell got his hands on the M3 iMac's and MacBook Pro's. Will Apple update its 27-inch iMac lineup with Apple Silicon? And what the perk of fame can get for you in the world o…

twit.tv

Thanks, Robert, I will give it a listen

 

[Ronald Epstein]

So basically MBW is saying Apple is finally up to speed on silicon and we should adjust our expectations on how Apple is going to make their chips moving forward: Good -> Better -> Best

I can accept that analogy.

 

[Ted Todorov]

But in the end, I am just here to help, not judge. You have to do what works best for you. Please keep us updated on what you finally decide to purchase.

My new 14" MacBook Pro has arrived, the new black color and yes, with 8TB of storage. Apple shipped it via DHL, who are not exactly user friendly -- basically impossible to communicate with them -- but it arrived, and I am very happy, still installing stuff.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

My new 14" MacBook Pro has arrived, the new black color and yes, with 8TB of storage. Apple shipped it via DHL, who are not exactly user friendly -- basically impossible to communicate with them -- but it arrived, and I am very happy, still installing stuff.

Congrats, Ted. I still can't believe you paid for 8TB of storage but I am certain that you are going to be very happy with this computer.

How much memory did you end up getting?

 

[JohnRice]

The minimum configuration I find that even allows 8TB of storage has 36GB of memory.

 

[Ted Todorov]

The minimum configuration I find that even allows 8TB of storage has 36GB of memory.

Correct

 

[Robert Saccone]

My new 14" MacBook Pro has arrived, the new black color and yes, with 8TB of storage. Apple shipped it via DHL, who are not exactly user friendly -- basically impossible to communicate with them -- but it arrived, and I am very happy, still installing stuff.

Mine arrived via FedEx. They typically use them or UPS around here.