Wonder Woman 3 (1 Viewer)

[Jake Lipson]

I reject the idea that everything has to be a part of a big picture.

You can reject it if you want to, but WB is not rejecting this idea. Making DC connected within one story is literally what James Gunn describes his and Peter Safran's job as at the very top of his announcement video.

The fact that they’re clearly and willfully getting rid of Gadot (AND Cavill) is a cinematic travesty.

All you have to do is look at the recent box office performance to see that the general audience at large is continuing to reject the DCEU slate at large. That's why Gunn and Safran are rebooting. It's not personal against Cavill, nor would it be personal against Gadot if she doesn't play Wonder Woman again. Gunn and Safran are just going in a different direction with Superman that isn't tied to Cavill's tenure and continuity.

 

[jayembee]

You can reject it if you want to, but WB is not rejecting this idea. Making DC connected within one story is literally what James Gunn describes his and Peter Safran's job as at the very top of his announcement video.

Well, that's not quite true. The Pattinson Batman films and Phoenix Joker films aren't part of the "connected within one story" concept. And Gunn also very specifically said that they are open to making other films that won't fit into the DCU continuity. That's why I suggested that any future Wonder Woman film with Gal Gadot won't necessarily have to fit into their DCU plans.

 

[Tommy R]

You can reject it if you want to, but WB is not rejecting this idea. Making DC connected within one story is literally what James Gunn describes his and Peter Safran's job as at the very top of his announcement video.





All you have to do is look at the recent box office performance to see that the general audience at large is continuing to reject the DCEU slate at large. That's why Gunn and Safran are rebooting. It's not personal against Cavill, nor would it be personal against Gadot if she doesn't play Wonder Woman again. Gunn and Safran are just going in a different direction with Superman that isn't tied to Cavill's tenure and continuity.

All very true. But my bigger point is that Gadot and Cavill are still very capable, both willing, AND they have both been accepted and highly praised despite the criticism their films may have had.

It’s only my theory/opinion, but I think the studio giving the DC keys to Gunn so to speak, and letting him do a complete reboot, is them attempting to capture something (what Marvel did) artificially, and may even keep rebooting AFTER Gunn if his stuff doesn’t turn out to be huge at the box office, instead of just keeping proved and loved elements and just improving on what people DIDN’T like.

I’ve already expressed that I’m a fan of BOTH WW films, but I think Gadot’s WW can thrive under a different writer/director if people don’t like what Jenkins did/would have continued with.

 

[Jake Lipson]

The Pattinson Batman films and Phoenix Joker films aren't part of the "connected within one story" concept.

Those movies were pre-existing successes before Gunn and Safran came on board. They are also standalone projects that are NOT connected to a cinematic universe that the general public has largely rejected. Continuing with Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman is connected to the previous universe that is being rebooted. I just don't see them using the Elseworlds banner to keep going the continuity that WB hired them to reboot. I could be wrong, but that just doesn't make sense to me.

I think the studio giving the DC keys to Gunn so to speak, and letting him do a complete reboot, is them attempting to capture something (what Marvel did) artificially

If James Gunn and Peter Safran had not been chosen for the job, someone else would have been. WB reportedly considered Dan Lin for a while. Finding someone (or, in this case, two people) to DC as its own studio within WB was a priority for David Zazlav when he came in as CEO following the Warner Bros. Discovery merger. This was always going to happen. The only question was who the person in charge would be.

 

[jayembee]

Those movies were pre-existing successes before Gunn and Safran came on board. They are also standalone projects that are NOT connected to a cinematic universe that the general public has largely rejected. Continuing with Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman is connected to the previous universe that is being rebooted. I just don't see them using the Elseworlds banner to keep going the continuity that WB hired them to reboot. I could be wrong, but that just doesn't make sense to me.

You're missing my point. Any new WW film with Gadot doesn't have to be part of the previous DCEU continuity any more than it has to be part of the future DCU continuity. You're too focused on the idea that if Gadot is in it, it must be connected to the DCEU continuity, just because her previous movie appearances are.

Marvel continues to insist that the Netflix/Marvel shows are not part of MCU continuity. And yet, they've brought Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio into the MCU -- prime continuity, not as an alternate Earth in the Multiverse -- as Daredevil and Kingpin. How is DC possibly continuing to use Gal Gadot as WW any different?

 

[Jake Lipson]

How is DC possibly continuing to use Gal Gadot as WW any different?

It would be different because they would be using an actress whose last three appearances in the role are in films that the audience rejected. They're free to say it is a different continuity if they want to go that route. But that doesn't mean the audience will forget the DCEU films that she was in that weren't good. Any new film with Gadot in the role is still going to have to deal with the fact that WW84 was not well-liked. So why would people turn up for another one with the same actress?

I think using someone else is just a cleaner approach. But again, I'm not in charge. James Gunn and Peter Safran are. We'll see what they do in due course.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

NVM...

_Man_

 

[jayembee]

Any new film with Gadot in the role is still going to have to deal with the fact that WW84 was not well-liked.

Will it? The audience score at Rotten Tomatoes was 73%. It may have been "rotten" in the eyes of the critics, but that audience score is pretty respectable.

Nevertheless, who knows how things will shake out by the time any hypothetical third WW movie is even ready to be scheduled for release? I still maintain that right now is way too early to place bets on what's going to happen several years down the road.

 

[Tommy R]

Yeah, I don’t follow/trust Rotten Tomatoes at all, but there’s no doubt that 73% from 2,500+ verified ratings isn’t bad. The first movie is 83% from 100,000+. That’s only a 10% drop in alleged quality.

I’d personally rate both as a strong B+.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I get the sense that most people I know didn't like WW84. I also think it is pretty clear that the recent DCEU films have been rejected from a box office perspective. So I stand by what I said regarding bringing her back. I don't think we're going to convince each other to change our minds and that's fine.

That being said, if they do bring her back and another movie ends up being made with her and it's really good, then that's a good thing. We all want good movies here. I'd be very happy to be wrong if that ends up being the case.

 

[Tommy R]

I also think it is pretty clear that the recent DCEU films have been rejected from a box office perspective. So I stand by what I said regarding bringing her back.

The point I’m trying to say is that whatever the other DC films are and how they’re received doesn’t matter. If the people like Gadot as WW, then make a movie with her.

It makes me think a little about how Batman Returns, while it did well at the box office (as WW84 would have done well had it not been for covid), there was undeniably a lot of bad feedback from critics as well as audiences. So WB listened, hired a new director and made a major tonal shift for the next one. BUT, they STILL offered Michael Keaton a huge payday to come back, because he WASN’T the problem with the previous movie.

(Not that I’M saying there WAS a problem with Batman Returns, as it’s actually my personal favorite Batman movie. But, like WW84, there was a general consensus from critics and audiences that it wasn’t good.)

 

[Jake Lipson]

The point I’m trying to say is that whatever the other DC films are and how they’re received doesn’t matter. If the people like Gadot as WW, then make a movie with her.

I fundamentally disagree with this premise. The DCEU is so damaged, and Wonder Woman has been damaged as part of that, that I think the negative response to WW84 and the rest of their recent slate would absolutely impact the results of for another film with Gal Gadot in this role.

So we respectfully agree to disagree. And that's fine.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

I get the sense that most people I know didn't like WW84. I also think it is pretty clear that the recent DCEU films have been rejected from a box office perspective. So I stand by what I said regarding bringing her back. I don't think we're going to convince each other to change our minds and that's fine.

That being said, if they do bring her back and another movie ends up being made with her and it's really good, then that's a good thing. We all want good movies here. I'd be very happy to be wrong if that ends up being the case.

I'd be willing to bet that most people who disliked WW84 did not dislike it because of Gal Gadot's performance, and would not be opposed to her reprising that role in a film that is actually good.

Also as far as going full reboot going forward, aren't they still making a 2nd season of Peacemaker?

 

[jayembee]

Also as far as going full reboot going forward, aren't they still making a 2nd season of Peacemaker?

It's still in the plans, but Gunn wants to do it his own self again, and he's a bit busy at the moment (despite being "unable" to actually write anything at the moment ).

 

[Malcolm R]

I think the issue is more perception than performance. Is the audience intelligent enough to realize the same actor may be playing a new variation of the same character in a new story line? Or will they just take a quick glance at a trailer and assume that with the same actor it's just more of the same-old same-old continuing on from WW84?

 

[Jake Lipson]

I don't think it's a matter of intelligence. I think it is a matter of Gal Gadot's presence reminding people of the bad movies she has been in as Wonder Woman previously. Even if her previous appearances are wiped away in terms of continuity, you still have one of the most recognizable faces of the old timeline that the majority of the general audience has soundly rejected coming over to the new one. I don't think you can erase WW84 from people's memories as easily as it could be wiped away from the continuity. It came out and it sucked and it will still factor into whether people want to continue seeing Gal Gadot in this role. Even though Gadot didn't write or direct it, she was still the face of it. Aside from WW84, she also cameoed in two consecutive DC bombs this year just so that the men could objectify her. That didn't do the character any favors either.

I think that Peacemaker and the Amanda Waller project that James Gunn announced reflect the fact that he wants to keep portions of the continuity that he did. I think that is muddying the waters. I support the idea of rebooting because of how badly the DC brand has been damaged. But the argument for doing that does lose a little weight when the last time we saw Viola Davis she was in a scene with Henry Cavill. But she is staying on and he isn't. That's weird. But Gunn apparently doesn't want to wipe away his own work.

 

[Tommy R]

I think it is a matter of Gal Gadot's presence reminding people of the bad movies she has been in as Wonder Woman previously.

I only recently became aware (I believe through various posts here on HTF) that Gadot even appeared in cameo capacity in a couple of the recent DC movies, movies which I haven’t seen. So my most recent film I saw her in and associate her with is Zack Snyder’s Justice League, which has a 93% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. And if the recent DC films did bad at the box office then that tells me that the average movie goer was also unaware of Gadot being in so-called “bad” movies (which have an 83% and 86% RT audience scores) and do not associate her with them regardless.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Although Gadot's cameos in Fury of the Gods and The Flash don't help, I think WW84 being garbage is the biggest problem. I know that it has diminished my personal interest in seeing Gadot continue in this role. Her version of the character has just been too damaged by so much crap. I bear no ill will toward Gadot personally, and I'd be happy to be wrong if they prove me wrong and actually manage to make another great one with her. But I just don't think this should happen. I'm not excited for the potential of another Gal Gadot Wonder Woman film at all. She had one great film in this role and it was six years ago.

Furthermore, the DCEU as it currently stands has had a string of films that have been rejected by the mainstream audience. WB knows this, which is probably why they brought in James Gunn and Peter Safran to go in a new direction in the first place. The last time the current universe really delivered a genuine blockbuster was Aquaman. I just don't see the point in carrying over Gadot into the new universe when we know that the general audience has abandoned this universe. Just reboot the damn thing and start fresh.

Anyway, I've said what I said and now we're just talking in circles. So I'm bowing out of this particular discussion point.

 

[Robert Crawford]

WW84 was pretty bad. I remember watching it on Christmas morning when it debut on HBO Max. Talk about a major disappointment. For the most part, I enjoyed Gadot as Wonder Woman, but I can see why the studio with new management might want to cast another person if and when they decide to reboot that character.