What warranty do you get if you DON'T buy from an "authorized E-tailer?" (1 Viewer)

[MichaelDDD]

Well, I'm sure that most of the stock the "unauthorized" retailers sell is just fine.

The problem is that if you want a warranty at all, you have to pay extra for it.

By the time you add Price of Unit + Price of Ext Warr you could've just bought the thing from an authorized dealer. :frowning:

Is it price fixing? Yep, I say it is...I agree with you guys on that. But if you want the equipment, what else can you do but comply? They've got you by the short hairs. (ouch)

As Craig said, who is going to hire a laywer or file a motion to have a mega-manufacturer honor a warranty?

For a potential $1K purchase though, I don't want to take any chances. If the slightest little thing is wrong w/it, back it goes with a copy of my receipt from said authorized retailer...then I have a "box to stand on" as I complain.

 

[Bill_D]

After the terrible treatment I have experienced at several B&Ms in my area, I won't give them my business. I can say I have had much success from unauthorized dealers on components (pre/pro, amps, speakers) retailing for up to $3500 each in your traditional chain. I refuse to drop that kind of money and be treated like dog excrement because I decided to dress comfortable instead donning my Sunday best just to spend my money for the false promise of a loaner unit. Unless, you have dropped some serious dough, you are not getting a loaner unit. I am quite sure the couple of exceptions to the rule will chime in but remember, they are the exception. The second party warranties are fine and cheap .....sorry no loaner unit or even the promise of one. But, then again, I wouldn't know because my unauthorized dealer gear has never failed.

 

[BrianWoerndle]

Why does everyone think warrantys are free? If you send your product in for warranty work it costs the manufacturer. That cost has to be added back into the purchase price. So they are not fixing the price, you are just paying for the warranty. Then there are distribution costs to get the units to the dealers, dealer training, and marketing expenses. When you buy at a dealer you are paying for all of this. When you buy online there are no distribution costs (you pay shipping, probably straight from the mfgs warehouse), marketing costs (the little signs in the windows, literature etc. that a dealer gives you), and no warranty costs (If it needs to be fixed, pay for it because you didn't when you bought it.)

Warranty is like insurance. You are pre-paying (within the purchase price) for a cost you expect to have in the future. If you want it cheaper now, don't complain about not getting a warranty, You Didn't Pay For It.

 

[George_W_K]

How often has any of you needed to use your warranty?

So far, everything I have purchased has been fine, except for one thing, my PS2. I bought it the day it was first released and it stopped working a few months afterwards. Of course, I didn't buy the EXTENDED warranty and the 90 days were up so I am out $300. I was pissed, but am not too worried about the little amount of money (when compared to $1k and up HT costs). Just having that one bad experience, though, has me buying stuff only where I can get use of the warranty if needed.

 

[BradleyS.]

What about the extended warranties you can buy off ebay? I saw a 3-year warranty for a yamaha rxv-1300 for 50 bucks. Is there some catch I might be missing? Looks like a good deal to me.

 

[Tim K]

Why does everyone think warrantys are free? If you send your product in for warranty work it costs the manufacturer. That cost has to be added back into the purchase price. So they are not fixing the price, you are just paying for the warranty.

That is just so wrong it is scary. Obviously, companies need to determine the rate at which their products fail, and the cost of repair. Then they build that into the actual cost of the product, NOT the price, but their cost to produce the product. Based on their cost, they then determine what they want their profit margin to be and determine their wholesale price. They sell to distributors at wholesale price. The distributors sell for whatever they want to whomever they want. Authorized retailers are most likely required to meet some criteria and also most likely sell at a MINIMUM price. Sell fo less and lose your authorization. That's price fixing. Anyway, the "unauthorized" retailers are buying product from the same distributors, likely at the same price. They do not have minimum pricing standards so they can sell cheaper. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH COST OF WARRANTY REPAIRS.

As for the "marketing costs" you talk about (store space, advertising, etc)...I agree this is often the case when comparing online and B&M retailers. However, this does NOT account for the difference in prices between online retailers. We can assume that most online retailers have similar costs (distribution, advertising, etc). So why do authorized E-tailers charge more than unauthorized??? Price fixing. I could easily list numerous items I have looked at online that sell for $299 at unauthorized E-tailers which sell for $350 or more at authorized E-tailers. As someone above mentioned, the manufacturer is making the same amount of profit on each unit sold. They all sold at wholesale price for a predetermined profit. All they are doing by refusing warranty is increasing profits by cutting warranty costs that were already built into the wholesale price. By fixing minimum prices, manufacturers are able to artificially inflate the value of their products (SEE BOSE).

 

[Chris Hovanic]

Makes me want to give up electronics....

WTH did I just say. Ill never give up electronics!

Very interesting discussion everyone!

 

[RobCar]

I buy everything from UNauthorized dealers, and I have yet (knock, knock) to need any warranty coverage. The stuff I like is well made. I take care of it. If something goes wrong with one item, I'll pay for it with the savings from all the other items I've bought. No biggie.

 

[Marty Neudel]

>If you purchase a N.I.B. unit, then the factory warranty should be valid, regardless of who you purchase it from.>

The problem here is that we aren't talking about the factory warranty, which is generally limited to a couple of months and requires you to send the unit back to the factory and also pay for return shipping. We're talking about the importer's warrantee (i.e. "Yamoneer of America" sic.) Since most gray market items are distributed outside the control of the importer, there is no way we can expect them to warrant the product.

Marty

 

[Rob Landolfi]

On my Onkyo receiver, I tripped the protection circuitry/blew something when I plugged my camcorder into the front a/v panel while the receiver was on about a year ago. I was able to take it to the store on a Friday, and by Sunday, a computer auto-dialer was leaving messages that my receiver was ready to be picked up.

I got it back, and everything has been great with it. It was shipped by Circuit City from northern VA to somewhere in MD, fixed, and ready for pickup in about 48hrs. I was pretty impressed with this service, and it made me glad that I went B&M for this purchase. I will take this into account for all my future major purchases, and I agree with those above who say that saving $50-$100 (or more depending on how high an item you're looking at)or so at a non-authorized retailer may not be worth the risk/hassle.

As far as pricing goes, someone mentioned that you can often negotiate down on the pricing at a B&M, and Circuit City is no exception. When my receiver was selling everywhere for $500, I got it down to $450 (not great, but I felt good with it; $50 is $50). Soon after, someone here at HTF got a great deal at another CC and e-mailed copies of his receipt so we could price-match, and that knocked the price down to $400. So for a price cheaper than many e-tailers, I got the best of both worlds... price and piece of mind/service.

I'd have been satisfied with the original price of $500 as that was the going rate, but I usually take a stab at a discount if I've got the time.

 

[ToddP]

Some unauthorized e-tailers, that have great pricing, include warranties with their sale. I haven't worked with all of them, but it would be pretty hard to advertise a full warranty and welch on it.

I'm in the process of deciding between a Yamaha RX-V2400 and a Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX. Both can be had at Authorized Electronics for well below any other prices I've found online. The first thing you see at their website when you go to it is:

"YOUR ELECTRONIC SUPERSTORE FOR THE BEST PRODUCTS AND THE LOWEST PRICES WITH GUARANTEED ON TIME DELIVERY. ALL ITEMS* ARE BRAND NEW AND COME WITH A 30 DAY DEFECT EXCHANGE AND A FULL ONE YEAR PARTS AND LABOR WARRANTY!!"

I don't know of many manufacturers warranties that cover more than 12 months time. I will most likely make my purchase from this "unauthorized" e-tailer. Has anyone here delt with them in the past?

 

[Lewis Besze]

I've been buying mail order and then the net from 1994,and never had to claim any warranty work.I had to exchange 1 receiver because it had a faulty digital input.It did cost me the shipping charge [$70.00],but I still saved $430.00 over the local price!
As it has been said many E-tailers handles warranty themselves, just like your local dealer would for you.The difference is the shipping instead of driving.Yes that could cost more money.
It's also the rule of thumb for electronics[without moving parts]that most faulty parts would die within 30 days.So that would be within the free exchange program anyway.
To me this is really not a big issue[warranty],so I continue to purchase online for the best ptice.

 

[Kenneth Harden]

I will buy from B&M stores if they treat me well and don't try to rip me off.

If they are jerks, I will tell them: Thanks for the audition and I will be going online now

Harman Kardon people: the 525 is $650 on Amazon, and it's authorized! It's like getting authorized gear (which it is) for bottom price gray market goods.

 

[Brian_J]

I have never, ever seen a post on any forum from anybody refused warranty service from Denon (or any other company now that I think about it).

I bought my denon on line and thought I had to have it fixed. (turns out it was something else in my system) But, the repair center only wanted to see the receipt and didn't ask any questions whatsoever.

Brian

 

[MuneebM]

Etronics sells all items brand new, and offers extended warranties. I've bought from them before, but haven't yet had a need for warranty and hopefully never will. I plan to buy a Yamaha RX-V1400 or RX-V2400 receiver from them but since they are not an authorized dealer I will most likely buy the extended warranties that they offer - $60 for 3 years is awesome, and the receiver is over 350 cheaper than authorized online retailers!

 

[MichaelDDD]

Wow, this thread still has a hearbeat!

Well, I bought my Denon 3803 from an AUTHORIZED Etailer (6Ave) so I got the warranty and one heckuva deal!

Not that I've gotten to play with it yet. :rolleyes

Oh, I got it...got it just fine. I'm just still traveling on business...will be settled down in May, though!

Till then, in the box, in storage it sits. :frowning:

 

[Jim Rakowiecki]

Personally I like the warranty and I also like buying from someone locally so unless there is something I just can't get in my area I buy it here. I like being able to see what I'm getting. I like to touch it, hear it, twist the knobs, hold the remote, press the buttons. No matter how good the description the web page has it is no match for actually haivng the thing in front of you.
Another reason is that the guys that work in that store live in my city, they spend the money they make from my purchase in my town and pay taxes here and help keep other business's here and other people working here.
I'm sure the guys at E-tronics or 6th ave are great guys and fine human beings but they are far away and the money they make stays in thier city. I realize in the great scheme of thing that the money I spend on HT stuff locally doesn't amount to much but every little bit helps.

 

[DanielG]

I've always found this to be a bit strange and quite frankly I see it as manufacturers being very opportunistic - they make the same profit on the equipment but now claim they don't have to service it. All the discounter is doing is deciding they don't have to make as large a profit on the sale - ethically and rationally it shouldn't make a difference unless that very piece of equipment was sold into the market by the manufacturer for less because it didn't come with a warranty. Furthermore, I've gotten the feeling that the discount online retailers primarily get authorized status just because they happen to have a B&M store someplace somewhere and so sell at retail out of the store and for discount over the web and phone (I've bought from retailers that do that - best price on the web but were fortunate enough to have a separate B&M store and get that authorized status). Basically manufacturers seek to control the pricing of their products in this way notwithstanding the BS they spin of wanting only dealers who "know" the product to sell it (we all know that's not the case in so many B&M stores). Most of the time consumers won't go to the manufacturers website to see that they happen to have this policy and perhaps the manufacturer puts a sticker on the product but by the time the consumer sees it they have already made the purchase and I assert been duped NOT by the retailer BUT by the manufacturer because of everyone's common and rational assumption that a new in the box product would have the standard warranty. If they sell the product for the same price into the market its profiteering and duplicitous business activity in my opinion, but if they sell the product for less into the market because it won't come with the warranty, that's another issue and the practice should be viewed in a different light.

All that being said, and I don't have detailed legal knowledge, I do think it could very well be a difficult legal issue to attack unilateral price fixing (I think the establishment of pricing by the manufacturer has been protected in various precedential court cases, though they are very fact specific) - of course if a conspiracy among retailers or manufacturers can be proved that's another story but I don't think anyone here is asserting that's the case.

Its really remarkable to me that some big name brands essentially stiff their consumers to the extent they purchase the product from a retailer that is unauthorized or purchase it used and others, like Bryston for instance, decide that they back the product for the warranty period no matter how the product got into the current owners hands. I think manufacturers like that should be rewarded - they basically build a product they believe in and cover it for the warranty period without what I view are excuses to get them out of coverage. If something breaks during the warranty period it shouldn't matter where it was purchased or whether you are the first owner - particularly because I believe that warranty costs are (or should be) budgeted by the manufacturer and built into wholesale pricing and their profit structure (I'd be astonished if it wasn't). I could understand the policy if those circumstances (i.e., buying from an online dealer or buying used) made it more likely for the product to break or otherwise effected the product but I think its pretty clear to everyone that it doesn't. Again, unless they are discounting into the wholesale market and thereby reducing profits when eliminating the warranty, I'm not sure how they can defend the practice of treating the very same new product sealed in the factory box differently because one box happens to go to a B&M retailer who sells at full price and one goes to a discounter who voluntarily reduces their profit on each individual piece of equipment perhaps to make it up on volume. If a manufacturer wants to support their distribution base and their authorized dealers or market their products in certain ways because they want their products to be shown in high end stores where time can be spent showing them to customers, they should do it not by discriminating against certain consumers but by not selling directly or permitting their products to be sold into the mass online market or on the gray market - products can be traced and importer/distributor relationships severed or contractual penalties levied instead as the more proper enforcement mechanism. There are many brands of products that I have shopped for which are not sold by online dealers and only by very few select B&M retailers - those manufacturers decide that's the way they want to sell their products. However, it seems like Denon and other manufacturers want to have their cake and eat it too by selling to anyone and their uncle that will take product out of one side of their mouth but "really" wanting their products to only be sold from certain dealers out of the other side of their mouth. Quite frankly I would have never bought my Denon receiver and a few other items if my B&M salesperson hadn't made the difference up to me in other ways for the entire spread..... Hmm, perhaps there is a good reason that the amps I just bought were used Brystons....

As a related tangent, does anyone know how these manufacturers handle a situation where their product is given as a gift and the recipient has no idea where it was purchased and doesn't have the receipt (of course they don't since it was a gift)?