"West Side Story" blu-ray Street Date:October 17th (1 Viewer)

[marsnkc]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1346118&page=3 Curious as to what others are saying around the 'net, I came across this. Poster 'hainesthisway' - a pro who's had work done at Foto-Kem, the company responsible for WSS, says in #77 here that, "the DVD had some totally wacko and incorrect color shift just before the pull-back that reveals the title - I was so happy this was going to be fixed, only it's not fixed - instead of the wacko color shift, the screen literally fades to black, then fades back in just before the pull-back. That, for me, is a complete disaster - obviously the negative has a problem there and maybe no one is around.........." He thinks that only the 70mm prints had the overture. (He mentioned earlier that he had ordered the Blu from both the UK and here in the States, so obviously he's referring to the UK edition. BTW, he has the highest regard for Foto-Kem, saying that they'll do whatever they're instructed to but, left to their own devices, they produce superb work).

 

[ahollis]

www.haineshisway.com is Bruce Kimmel who is one of the foremost knowledgeable people on WEST SIDE STORY. When he speaks about the film, I tend to listen. If He thinks there are problems with the transfer, then there are problems that we will be irritated with. Not to take this tread too off track, I would just suggest that you google around the Internet and a learn how he has earned to speak of such thinks. I wish he would post on this forum more than he does. A lot of us could learn a lot.

 

[JohnMor]

Originally Posted by Phoebus

I still like this blu very much. Amazed at the negative buzz being generated like so much hot air..
I'm really not so anal that an early fade out error and some flickering skylines are going to ruin the whole experience for me.
And I'm not overly concerned if the whistles seem in the wrong place at the start for some listeners - seemed to be echoing round the left and right sides to me.
The crazy vivid colours, the glorious sound, the elegant dancing, the 70mm restoration... truly one of the best large format musicals so far transferred to bluray.
I was seriously pissed off to project the previous dvd and find it so unwatchably soft - so please don't anyone start raining down perfection on the prior dvd, I found the transfer to be unacceptable for the crisp dvd standards of that time..
[all I recall admiring were the dancers telling of the crazy time sequences, and the tiny sliver of film of the cast doing their native american rain dances prior to being banned from doing so by the producers..]
I was honestly delighted to experience WSS this vividly at all levels for the first time I can remember.
Please try it first, before you deny it, people.

Tom, it's fine that you love the blu ray, but others are legitimately bothered by definite transfer errors. The fade out/fade in is just as incorrect in the Overture as it would be in the middle of "Tonight" or "America." Not to mention putting in a forced Intermission and Entr'acte the filmmakers did not want in the film. And according to Robert Harris, there are problems with the opticals as well that have never been present on any other home video release. These are not little "anal" things.

 

[Douglas R]

That is NOT the correct way to present it. Robert Wise has said many times (and I was there for some of them!) that he didn't want an intermission.  He put it in only as a choice for theaters to play it if they wanted. The correct way (and director's choice) to view the film is without the intermission.

Sorry but what Robert Wise said after the event is irrelevant and reinventing history. What matters is how the film was presented to the millions of people who saw the film. That is what should be preserved on disc. I hate the way some directors want to keep altering their films from how they appeared in theaters.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Douglas R


Sorry but what Robert Wise said after the event is irrelevant and reinventing history. What matters is how the film was presented to the millions of people who saw the film. That is what should be preserved on disc. I hate the way some directors want to keep altering their films from how they appeared in theaters.

It's their artwork, we're only admirers of it.







Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

By the way, Iafter reading the comments of those that have viewed the actual disc, I'm going to keep my preorder of this BRD since it is apparently a marked improvement over the DVD. I didn't buy the giftset which if I ordered that one I might have cancelled it. If this title is released again on BRD then I'll give it to a family member or friend, who would enjoy the disc without being bothered by the disc errors.







Crawdaddy

 

[Bob Cashill]

Me, too. If I had the 2003 SE I might cancel, but I only have the 1998 one. If it gets reissued I'll turn it in. More here (sorry if this was already posted): http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2011/10/who_are_the_bad.php

 

[GMpasqua]

When "West Side Sdtory" premiered at the Rivoli in New York City it did Not have an intermission. If you are presenting the original Roadshow version - that's the one to present. and was the true intent of the film.



Robert Wse would say the same if he were still with us today (as he has say many times in the past) I've been to quite a few 70MM screenings of the film and not once was there an intermission.


Brits do things differently - so keep it that way on your side of the pond

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

When "West Side Sdtory" premiered at the Rivoli in New York City it did Not have an intermission. If you are presenting the original Roadshow version - that's the one to present. and was the true intent of the film.



Robert Wse would say the same if he were still with us today (as he has say many times in the past) I've been to quite a few 70MM screenings of the film and not once was there an intermission.


Brits do things differently - so keep it that way on your side of the pond

Same here. Never saw an intermission card until the DVD and did not even know of an intermission until the DVD. I agree presenting the original Roadshow version would be without the intermission.
Edit: I stand corrected. The Intermission should be included in presenting the original Roadshow. You learn something everyday.

 

[haineshisway]

As far as I know, WSS did in fact have an intermission at the Rivoli. at least that's the memory of a friend who saw it there its opening week. More importantly, it certainly had one at the roadshow engagement at the Grauman's Chinese in Hollywood for the entirety of its run there (over a year). Since Mr. Wise lived in Hollywood and attended the premiere there, he was certainly aware of that fact, and had he really not wanted it he probably would have had it removed. My feeling is that what he was talking about thirty years after the fact was the general release version - I'm sure the intermission with that release was optional. But I can speak with some authority about the roadshow at the Chinese because I can freely admit that I was completely obsessed with this film and saw it over twenty times during its roadshow run and the intermission was there each and every time. I believe it was built into all the 70mm prints. To prove my obsession, I can perform the entire choreography of the Prologue right now - badly, but I can do it. In fact, way back in the day, I took dance class from David Winters, A-Rab (and Baby John on Broadway). I see Mr. Chakiris every now and then and am still in touch with David. As the person who first broke the news about the problems with this disc, I want to reiterate what Mr. Harris is saying elsewhere - that much of this disc looks really nice and it's a huge step up from the DVD. The overture problem is not slight and needs to be fixed and now hopefully will be, along with the handful of other problems.

 

[Paul Rossen]

As far as I know, WSS did in fact have an intermission at the Rivoli. at least that's the memory of a friend who saw it there its opening week. More importantly, it certainly had one at the roadshow engagement at the Grauman's Chinese in Hollywood for the entirety of its run there (over a year). Since Mr. Wise lived in Hollywood and attended the premiere there, he was certainly aware of that fact, and had he really not wanted it he probably would have had it removed. My feeling is that what he was talking about thirty years after the fact was the general release version - I'm sure the intermission with that release was optional. But I can speak with some authority about the roadshow at the Chinese because I can freely admit that I was completely obsessed with this film and saw it over twenty times during its roadshow run and the intermission was there each and every time. I believe it was built into all the 70mm prints. To prove my obsession, I can perform the entire choreography of the Prologue right now - badly, but I can do it. In fact, way back in the day, I took dance class from David Winters, A-Rab (and Baby John on Broadway). I see Mr. Chakiris every now and then and am still in touch with David. As the person who first broke the news about the problems with this disc, I want to reiterate what Mr. Harris is saying elsewhere - that much of this disc looks really nice and it's a huge step up from the DVD. The overture problem is not slight and needs to be fixed and now hopefully will be, along with the handful of other problems.

If my memory is correct I saw WWS at the Rivoli with an intermission.

 

[AdrianTurner]

Looking at the film again this week, the intermission seems quite naturally placed to me. I think 35mm prints lacked the intermission. Good to see Haineshisway on this site!

 

[jaaguir]

I know it's a crime they didn't use the original 6-track sound mix, and there's no excuse for it. I know it's bad what happened with the overture (although frankly I don't think it's such a big deal, a 1 second mistake, and the movie hasn't even began yet!). That said, I still think that not buying this release (as many people seem to be cancelling pre-orders) on account of that is nuts, if we agree that a re-call or future corrected re-release is extremely unlikely (at least I think so). If you want to own the movie in high-def, I still think the good far outweighs the bad (especially at a good price). I know there are shimmering problems due to improper down-scaling from the 8k scan, but still. The bad quality of the opticals (as revealed by Mr. Harris) is what worries me the most. We'll see when the disc arrives.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by jaaguir

I know it's a crime they didn't use the original 6-track sound mix, and there's no excuse for it. I know it's bad what happened with the overture (although frankly I don't think it's such a big deal, a 1 second mistake, and the movie hasn't even began yet!).
That said, I still think that not buying this release (as many people seem to be cancelling pre-orders) on account of that is nuts, if we agree that a re-call or future corrected re-release is extremely unlikely (at least I think so). If you want to own the movie in high-def, I still think the good far outweighs the bad (especially at a good price).
I know there are shimmering problems due to improper down-scaling from the 8k scan, but still. The bad quality of the opticals (as revealed by Mr. Harris) is what worries me the most. We'll see when the disc arrives.

What others do with their monies is their own business so I have no comment on anybody cancelling their orders if these issues are important to them.







Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by haineshisway I see Mr. Chakiris every now and then and am still in touch with David.
As the person who first broke the news about the problems with this disc, I want to reiterate what Mr. Harris is saying elsewhere - that much of this disc looks really nice and it's a huge step up from the DVD. The overture problem is not slight and needs to be fixed and now hopefully will be, along with the handful of other problems.

Welcome back.








Crawdaddy

 

[DP 70]

When i last saw this in Bradford in 70mm DTS presented on the Cinerama screen it had a intermission.

 

[haineshisway]

Thank you.

 

[ToddF]

I know it's a crime they didn't use the original 6-track sound mix, and there's no excuse for it. I know it's bad what happened with the overture (although frankly I don't think it's such a big deal, a 1 second mistake, and the movie hasn't even began yet!). That said, I still think that not buying this release (as many people seem to be cancelling pre-orders) on account of that is nuts, if we agree that a re-call or future corrected re-release is extremely unlikely (at least I think so). If you want to own the movie in high-def, I still think the good far outweighs the bad (especially at a good price). I know there are shimmering problems due to improper down-scaling from the 8k scan, but still. The bad quality of the opticals (as revealed by Mr. Harris) is what worries me the most. We'll see when the disc arrives.

I think it's important to let the studios know that these issues are "big" issues and they need to be careful with their QC. This mistake with the overture is huge. It destroys the brilliant, very famous, and very memorable images that opens this movie and that's a shame. There should be no "please insert commercial here' moment. I hope they fix it.

 

[GMpasqua]

Thanks to all the members who saw "WSS" in the states during it's original Roadshow run at the Rivoli and Chinese for verifing there was in fact an intermission.


Up till now Robert Wise always said he didn't want one, and the New York reviews did not mention an intermission, nor did Variety (who usually states an intermission, overture, playout/en'trace music in their review specs and run lenght) And I was born a number of years after the original roadshow run so I wasn't there. Bruce Kimmel probably holds the record for seeing the film at the Chinese in it's roadshow run and if Bruce remembers an intermission, you can bet there was one.


Every showing I've seen in a theater never had an intermission - including 70MM prints

(even at the Motion Picture Academy who usually follow Roadshow procedures when screening a film)


Films are not always presented the same in the US and England. "South Pacific" followed the Broadway scene structure in England (starting with the "Some Enchanted Evening" scenes) but was different in the States (starting with the "Nothing Like a Dame" scenes)


Some roadshow films were sent to theaters for roadshow presentaion in truncated versions (and some without Stereo) The New York Opening would have been the premiere for WSS and how ever the film was presented there would be the original roadshow presentation.

 

I like having the intermission, and I think it's very well placed. It divides one day from the next, considering that the story takes place over the span of two days. It reminds me of when I first heard the soundtrack album when I was 6 years old - a year and a half before I'd actually see the movie - and the liner notes mentioned that "a lifetime can be only 48 hours long".