Warner Archive: Popeye the Sailor (1940s) First Volume on Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[rmw650]

Christmas Miracle , Drooling at the prospect, that more will follow, Famous Studios output , would be nice to see the Fleischer's get the same treatment, if WAC want to really up the prospects how about this gem?



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From Jerry Beck's Cartoonreserch.com page PLEASE READ

A SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE EDITOR OF CARTOON RESEARCH

Presenting POPEYE THE SAILOR: The 1940s Vol. 1 (Warner Archive Collection) Street Date: 12/11/18.

Here we go again. To all of you who wish and hope the vaults of Warner Bros. could reopen to allow more of the classic cartoon treasures to emerge – Now is your time. Here’s what you can do to help (Take Two).

Last year I used whatever super powers I had to make a set of black and white Porky Pig cartoons available in an effort to convince to the studio there was an audience out there for such compilations. After several bumps in the road the set eventually broke even. But “brake even” isn’t good enough for a mega corporation. Long story short – we have one more shot. One. This is it. Perhaps a set of color cartoons, films the collectors do not have, or never had on home video (no VHS, no previous DVD or cable broadcast). A small set – 14 cartoons perhaps.

Here it is – a continuation of the Paramount Popeye cartoons. The next 14. No frills, no bonus materials, no audio commentaries. Transferred from the original Technicolor negatives. Jim Tyer animation. Politically incorrect shorts, uncut. The set will be available, separately, on both DVD and blu-ray.

The website to pre-order is supposedly going up today and we will update this post with the link when we get it. I highly recommend this set – I think you will be pleased. The frame grabs below were snapped off my living room flat screen by my iPhone, off the blu-ray. If this looks good to you – I ask that you pre-order, or order it in December. Let’s prove to Warner Bros. that we want further volumes of Popeye 1940s and 1950s – and we want more Warner and MGM cartoons restored and released. It’s seriously up to you.

if you are serious about animation then this needs to be supported, by sales

Totally behind this campaign and wanting this myself for Christmas, the DVD version, that is. Hoping everyone will go out and get this and state to WB we want more Popeye and to have this FINALLY completed after a long, long hiatus!!

 

[bigshot]

Out of curiosity I Googled “Popeye à la Mode”, and I guess I can see what you are talking about. I would be absolutely horrified I suppose if the cartoon was produced in 2018, but it was produced in 1940!

All old films require a certain amount of historical context to appreciate. But that isn't what I'm talking about. The line I draw on this stuff is between racial and racist. And to me, the difference is when a race of people is depicted as subhuman, inhuman monsters or worthy of death. Cannibalism crosses that line and so does Birth of Nation. But no one is going to stumble across BoaN on a disk of kiddie cartoons. You know the context going in. The cartoons that include caricatures of contemporary black performers I have no problem with. I also have no problem with releasing Popeye Ala Mode in the proper context, but including it on a disc of innocuous cartoons jumbled in by release date makes it look like it's innocuous too. If they are going to release Angel Puss or Popeye Ala Mode or cannibal cartoons, they should either break them out behind a click and an explanatory video like Disney did on the Treasures series, or assemble them all on a single disc with some sort of liner notes or introductory video that explains the context. The problem here is that we're going to hit play all and after a couple of cartoons, Popeye Ala Mode is going to play with no context at all. And just writing "Warner Archive" on the top of the cover doesn't excuse that. A mom on Amazon is going to find it and not know what she is in for.

One other thing I have to say that I know isn't popular. The "censored 11" (which have grown to the censored couple of dozen) has acquired a "forbidden fruit" reputation among certain undiscerning vintage cartoon fans. They tend to think that if it has been withheld, it is somehow more important or better than other cartoons. That is the furthest thing from the truth. For every great cartoon like Coal Black or Tin Pan Alley Cats, there are a bunch of really lousy cartoons like Scrub Me Mama or Angel Puss. If you understand the context, you should be able to judge these by their merits honestly. Unfortunately, some of these cartoons carry so much baggage that honesty is impossible on both sides. Either the cartoon is written off as having no merits, even technical ones; or it's raised to legendary status purely because it is offensive. That is wrong and it's exactly the reason why context is necessary. Burying the apologies in title cards at the front with disingenuous disclaimers or in supplements no normal people ever get around to watching isn't good enough. These cartoons need to be curated properly. Put in an educational context, they might actually be valuable.

 

[Alan Tully]

I don't know. Can't we at least let this one set come out before we start projecting doom and gloom over things that haven't even happened yet?

Ha, you should visit the Horror Of Dracula thread over at Blu-ray.com. It's total gloom & doom about the aspect ratio (1:66 rather than 1:85, not a huge difference) & the colour, although no one's seen a frame of it yet.

I remember seeing a lot of Popeye cartoons on TV in the UK in the late fifties/early sixties, of course all in b/w, it'll be odd seeing them in colour. If they look good, I'm in.

 

[Interdimensional]

If the Warner home video cartoon business was strong and hadn't buckled over this kind of thing in the past, I'd say great, go ahead and tough it out. But I can see the whole thing being played out again just like when they put Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips on one of the VHS collections. The whole cartoon restoration and releasing program ground to a halt because of the bad press. The fans will blame Warner Bros again. Warner Bros will decide that it isn't worth restoring cartoons again, and we'll be even worse off than before.

Does anyone have an example more recent than 1993?

There's no shortage of examples where a corporation decided to censor or omit cartoons to preempt potential backlash, but I can't recall any recent example where public outcry over offensive backcatalog material forced the recall of physical media or caused reputational damage to the company releasing. Am I forgetting something?

I would be amazed if 70 - 80 year old cartoons can still provoke any serious amount of upset or outrage. Yes they were wrong at times, but that's history. There is no reason in this day and age to pretend that it's impossible to release them to an adult collector audience. If they have to be placed in a separate menu of the disc behind warnings and disclaimers, so be it. I believe that would eliminate the vast majority of possible complaints.

That Bugs Nips the Nips situation was an example where the cartoon had been on laserdisc for 2 years at that point, apparently without issue. I don't know how comparable the laserdisc market at that point was, but I would expect the same would be true for blurays today; it's a collector's format. Moms on Amazon will go for the budget Popeye dvds, if at all.

 

[JoHud]

I'm not really worried about cancellation, mainly because this is the Warner Archive, and I watched a lot and they tend to go out of their way to be as complete as possible and include some material that is outright racist. A decent chunk of their content is extremely obscure material, and its goal seems more about curator/archivist appeal than mass market (save for some ot the TV releases). We're getting close to the 10 year anniversary to the Warner Archive, and I sincerely doubt anything will change now. The fact that the WAC is an online-only venue seems to make a big difference.

The fact that we get to see a fully manufactured disc as promotion also helps, because T&J #2 didn't even make it that far.

So far I consider this the first real effort on the WAC's part in terms of classic cartoons, and I'm interested to see if this release starts some real traction for other theatrical cartoon material long overdue.

 

[Ken_Martinez]

Does anyone have an example more recent than 1993?

There's no shortage of examples where a corporation decided to censor or omit cartoons to preempt potential backlash, but I can't recall any recent example where public outcry over offensive backcatalog material forced the recall of physical media or caused reputational damage to the company releasing. Am I forgetting something?

I would be amazed if 70 - 80 year old cartoons can still provoke any serious amount of upset or outrage. Yes they were wrong at times, but that's history. There is no reason in this day and age to pretend that it's impossible to release them to an adult collector audience. If they have to be placed in a separate menu of the disc behind warnings and disclaimers, so be it. I believe that would eliminate the vast majority of possible complaints.

That Bugs Nips the Nips situation was an example where the cartoon had been on laserdisc for 2 years at that point, apparently without issue. I don't know how comparable the laserdisc market at that point was, but I would expect the same would be true for blurays today; it's a collector's format. Moms on Amazon will go for the budget Popeye dvds, if at all.

It's not even worth your time. That post is what you'd find if you looked up "concern trolling" in the dictionary.

These sets should look awesome. WAC's standards for Blu-Ray's are notoriously stringent, and they've turned down films that they can't get to look presentable at an affordable price (see The Brothers Grimm).

And after seeing the absolute horrors Disney unleashed on their Mickey Mouse shorts to make them not look like the old films they are, I'd prefer as little digital tinkering as possible.

 

[JoHud]

Coloring is probably the only potential concern, but not a big one. Both because the WAC doesn't really do digital tinkering, and because these cartoons have never really looked good on home video.

Some of these I have not seen at all, while others have some pretty poor transfers floating around

 

[Brent Reid]

The amount of effort put into trolling of any kind never fails to amaze me. But then the devil makes work for idle hands. And empty lives.

To some people everything old is public domain. Too often, folk declare themselves experts but then do nothing but posit their uninformed opinions as facts. "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure..."

I don't see the announcement of this set as anything other than great news and can't wait to get it. Thank you, Warner Archive!

 

[Jbug]

Order placed.

 

[zoetmb]

Great news!

Man, I hear what Jerry is saying, but I don't know what else I can do. I buy all this animation stuff religiously, but physical disc sales do nothing but decline and the community of classic animation fans is apparently quite small. I guess I could buy two copies, but I see little I can do to get other people to value and buy this classic material when they are A) cheap, and B) satisfied with the kind of abject garbage that gets broadcast nowadays, animated or otherwise.

...

Sorry to be a downer, I do hope this sells well and there are more to come. I grew up on these color Popeye cartoons from Famous Studios and would love to see them all released. But ultimately if Warner Archive can't make it work then I wish they would at least try to license this kind of stuff out to independent shops like Criterion and Olive, who do seem to still be able to make physical media work.

Each set of the Golden and Platinum collections sold fewer than the previous one, so it's no surprise that WB stopped releasing new Looney Tunes. I've worked for three large corporations and I know that everything has to have a return on investment. So if people aren't buying and they can't make a lot of money licensing restored cartoons that they wouldn't have made licensing unrestored cartoons, it's no surprise that they've stopped. Having said that, I don't think those sets, especially the later sets, were marketed well.

On the other hand, there are so many releases of garbage that I see that I think, "who approved the release of this and how do they think it's going to be profitable?" If they can release that other junk, they can release these classic works.

I think one of the problems with these classic cartoons is that while there's a desirable nostalgia factor, these were also cartoons that Baby Boomers watched on TV for free and even beautifully restored, there's the perception that they're not worth much. And for most people (obviously not the completists), one boxed set of 60 cartoons was more than enough. And kids today don't necessarily relate: my grandkids don't want to watch either the Warner nor the Jay Ward cartoons. I guess these cartoons don't look like much to them compared to today's computer animation.

My concern now is the decline of physical media in general and the acquisition of Warner by AT&T. It usually takes an acquirer a year or more to get heavily involved in the details of a business and I have to wonder whether AT&T cares about physical media at all. I believe they bought Warner to provide content for streaming services, but how much they're willing to invest in restoration is a big open question.

As for the video physical media market, it was an $11 billion market in North America in 2009 and it will probably come in at about $3.75 billion this year. It was $4.7 billion last year. I'm a fan of physical media, but I'm also a realist and I have to admit that it's pretty much over for physical media. It's becoming a smaller and smaller niche every year. And I've evolved (or devolved) to a state where unless it's very inexpensive, I only buy physical video if I think I'm going to watch it more than once or twice.

Edit: Recorded music is in no better shape. For the first six months of 2018 in North America, physical media was only 10.3% of industry revenue. Streaming was 77.1% and downloads was 12.6%.

 

[BobO'Link]

I think one of the problems with these classic cartoons is that while there's a desirable nostalgia factor, these were also cartoons that Baby Boomers watched on TV for free and even beautifully restored, there's the perception that they're not worth much. And for most people (obviously not the completists), one boxed set of 60 cartoons was more than enough. And kids today don't necessarily relate: my grandkids don't want to watch either the Warner nor the Jay Ward cartoons. I guess these cartoons don't look like much to them compared to today's computer animation.

There is quite a lot of nostalgia factor with these older cartoons. I'd guess even more than with older movies. My grandkids will watch the Warner cartoons, they've not yet seen any Jay Ward ones, but it's not something they'll ask for. If they come in and that's what I'm watching they'll stick around and watch with me. In contrast, they *will* ask to watch Three Stooges or Little Rascals two reelers.

It goes beyond the look, which IMHO is far superior to what's offered today. Many seem to prefer the insult laden, mean spirited, cartoons of today over the classics. Mine *do* like The Jetsons, The Flintstones, Jonny Quest, and others and ask for them regularly but they also like some truly stupid and/or mean spirited modern cartoons. Many modern ones are so bad that Grandma has banned them in our house. If she catches them watching one of those she turns off the set and puts them to work.

I'd much rather them watch the old stuff, warts and all, as it's easy to explain why one might be bad and use it as a history lesson.

And... they also like Popeye. My oldest grandson (15yo) will ask to watch those on occasion. This set has the ones I've been wanting most. I have the earlier sets but they didn't see as much air play when I was a kid as did the ones from this set and later years.

 

[ChrisOC]

Boy, have I been out of touch; I just found this today. Oh well, order placed. BTW, I don't take Jerry's message as a warning, just a friendly reminder that getting these things out isn't easy.

Ordered this ,but only care for the first batch of Famous cartoons,I would have preferred Superman

There already is an official Warner release of the Fleischer Superman cartoons. It's on DVD (not BD, as far as I can tell) but I have the set, and the quality and bonus material are excellent.

https://www.amazon.com/Superman-Fle...=1543433081&sr=8-4&keywords=superman+cartoons

 

[Interdimensional]

Great news!

Man, I hear what Jerry is saying, but I don't know what else I can do. I buy all this animation stuff religiously, but physical disc sales do nothing but decline and the community of classic animation fans is apparently quite small. I guess I could buy two copies, but I see little I can do to get other people to value and buy this classic material when they are A) cheap, and B) satisfied with the kind of abject garbage that gets broadcast nowadays, animated or otherwise.

Whether you like animation or not I think DVDs and Blu-rays have always been the best value in entertainment pretty much ever, and continue to provide the purchaser some autonomy over their content instead of laying back fat and happy on the couch to be spoon fed whatever crap the streaming services decide you can or can't see this month. It's to be expected I guess, but it's to all of our detriment as disc sales lose momentum and critical mass in the market because of this complacency. But I digress.

Also, for those of us who do buy a LOT of animation these sort of back channel warnings from those "in the know" sound awfully accusatory sometimes. WTH else was I supposed to do? I probably bought almost every classic animated DVD release WB ever put out, many of them quite flawed. I get rewarded with abandoned incomplete series and fairly obvious stuff that never gets released at all. I know, I know, I'm not the target and there is an effort to goose sales however they can, it's important, but it's just a perennial thing with classic animation and I get tired of hearing it.

Sorry to be a downer, I do hope this sells well and there are more to come. I grew up on these color Popeye cartoons from Famous Studios and would love to see them all released. But ultimately if Warner Archive can't make it work then I wish they would at least try to license this kind of stuff out to independent shops like Criterion and Olive, who do seem to still be able to make physical media work.

... he's probably talking to people like me more than people like you. I buy quite a lot of vintage animation, but back during the times when they were doing the Golden Collections, and the previous Popeye dvds, I didn't exactly rush out and buy them. They went on the wishlist and I played the waiting game. Many of them I ended up picking up on the cheap, sometimes a few years after release. Lucky I didn't wait too long, some of the previous Popeye volumes are sold out and expensive.

Anyway, I get the message loud and clear. An early purchase is a vote for future releases. The first month of sales will be a deciding factor as to whether they continue full steam ahead, or put things on hold to see if they have a reasonable chance of breaking even.

What else can we do? It never hurts to talk about an upcoming release on forums and social media. I know that online buzz has influenced some of my purchases. Anyone who feels compelled to buy a second copy might consider gifting it to some of their more casually interested friends over Christmas. That's about the extent of what a single consumer can do, but hopefully the market isn't quite that bad for the time being. Hopefully just getting those pre-orders in early will be enough to satisfy WB at this point.

 

[Ken_Martinez]

So, WAC has evidently sent out a press release about the set that's being picked up by a few sites.

Some highlights (emphasis mine).

Each of the 14 cartoons has been meticulously restored from the original 35mm nitrate Technicolor negatives, which have been scanned at 4K as part of Warner Bros. ongoing film preservation efforts. From these new recombined scans, Warner Bros. Motion Picture Imaging department has created new masters under the direction of Warner Archive Collection for this Blu-ray and DVD release.

Note that they're unequivocally using the "R" word in the press release. I think there was some doubt about that since the very first official post made it a point to not refer the cartoons as restored.

As part of Warner Bros. decades-long corporate film preservation program, the restoration process on these Popeye cartoons has been meticulous in its mission to address any and all film damage while preserving the original animated frame. Dirt, debris and any film damage has been repaired from the original sources, most of which have not been touched in over 70 years. Warner Archive Collection has ensured great care was taken to keep the animation authentic to its original look as first presented on movie theater screens in the 1940s.

Again, they seem to have gone out for this set. Certainly a complete 180 from Porky 101.

The entire Popeye library is currently undergoing this process.

This set has GOT to sell so we can encourage them to see this process through to the end. This sounds like the Fleischer cartoons are on the table if this sells enough.

 

[ClassicTVMan1981X]

So, WAC has evidently sent out a press release about the set that's being picked up by a few sites.

Some highlights (emphasis mine).



Note that they're unequivocally using the "R" word in the press release. I think there was some doubt about that since the very first official post made it a point to not refer the cartoons as restored.



Again, they seem to have gone out for this set. Certainly a complete 180 from Porky 101.



This set has GOT to sell so we can encourage them to see this process through to the end. This sounds like the Fleischer cartoons are on the table if this sells enough.

Definitely a must-buy for me!

~Ben

 

[Traveling Matt]

Thank you for linking to the article.

I don't want to underestimate the importance of supporting this initial release, but the fact the entire library is undergoing this extensive restoration should certainly make future volumes more likely than otherwise now.

I'm also pleased to learn my initial comment in this thread - that the full catalog should be restored regardless of release plans - is now irrelevant. I hope the same approach is or will be taken for the Looney Tunes.

 

[Interdimensional]

So, WAC has evidently sent out a press release about the set that's being picked up by a few sites.

Some highlights (emphasis mine).

Note that they're unequivocally using the "R" word in the press release. I think there was some doubt about that since the very first official post made it a point to not refer the cartoons as restored.

Again, they seem to have gone out for this set. Certainly a complete 180 from Porky 101.

This set has GOT to sell so we can encourage them to see this process through to the end. This sounds like the Fleischer cartoons are on the table if this sells enough.

The entire Popeye library is currently undergoing this process.

Wonderful news, the initial post had mentioned 4k scans from seperation negatives, so I'd been expecting the colour to look good, but we didn't know they'd committed to doing the entire Popeye library. That's very reassuring.

An unrelated question: does anyone know much of the Famous cartoon library is with WB, ... obviously they have Popeye and Superman, but who owns the rest? How did they end up at WB in the first place?

 

[Ken_Martinez]

An unrelated question: does anyone know much of the Famous cartoon library is with WB, ... obviously they have Popeye and Superman, but who owns the rest? How did they end up at WB in the first place?

Paramount owns the other shorts through 1950 via Republic, and Universal owns the rest via Dreamworks Animation.

It's a long complicated story. Cliffnotes is Paramount sold most of it's film library piecemeal to TV distributors in the 1950's. That's how Universal ended up with most of Paramount's early features.

 

[Jeff S in NJ]

None of these links work for me.

 

[ahollis]

Paramount sold the black and white Popeye cartoons to a.a.p. (Associated Artists Productions) in 1956 and the color cartoons in 1957. United Artists purchased a.a.p. in 1958. In 1981 UA merged with MGM an in 1986 Ted Turner purchased MGM/UA. When Turner shortly sold MGM he retained the film library including all the cartoons to assist the start up of the Cartoon Network. As we know WB purchased Turner and that’s how the WB has Popeye.

I’m very happy Warner’s has control of Popeye, for they seem to be lovingly taking care of him.