Von Trier's THE KINGDOM (released, at long last, on 11/8/05) (1 Viewer)

[Rain]

My questions about the DVD:
- OAR (1.33:1)?
- Subtitles burned in or optional?
- Complete episodes, including opening and closing titles on each, intact? If not, what is missing?
- And basically how does it look overall?
Thanks, Mark!!!

 

[Brook K]

OAR of course goes without saying, I just don't see what the big deal is with burned in subs if I'm going to use the subs anyway, unless they're illegible or something.

But I'm definitely interested in the quality and OAR, so please report Mark.

 

[Mark McLeod]

Rain and everyone else.

I've taken a quick look through to find the answers to all your questions.

Here they are.

The aspect ratio is 1.33:1. I'm not sure if that's the original aspect ratio or not but that's clearly the aspect ratio on this release.

Unfortunately the subtitles are burned in. They look pretty easy to read but I've only played this disc through my computer.

Now the big one. Yes the episodes are in what you believe to be completed form. Each of the 5 episodes (3 on disc 1 and 2 on disc 2) contain opening and closing credits. The closing credits have a narration over them which is subtitled (again not optional) which sometimes blocks part of the credit scroll. Each episode has between 10 and 12 chapters.

As for how it looks. I didn't really watch anything more then the credits because I don't want to ruin my watching experience.

I hope this is what everyone wanted to hear/read.

Mark

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

What's the running time?

I'm not sure what the OAR is. It was made for TV, but the Japanese LD is 1.66:1 or so and seems to display more information at the sides.

Do you have the old VHS or LD to compare the pitch?

Is the one doctor still referred to as Dr. Hook in the subs? (That's not his name in the show.)

 

[Rain]

Unfortunately the subtitles are burned in.

Damn, damn, damn. Everything else sounded perfect.
I'm not sure if I'm going to get it or not now.
Ok, this is probably stupid, but I'm going to grasp for a straw here. I assume you can probably tell the difference just by looking between burned in and player generated subs, but just in case, are you sure that it's not one of those cases where they just can't be turned on/off during play, but rather only from the main menu? I know, I know, but I told you I'm grasping here.

 

[Bill McA]

Each of the 5 episodes (3 on disc 1 and 2 on disc 2) contain opening and closing credits.

Mark
I've seen The Kingdom many times (cinema/LD/TV)
and it's always been 4 complete episodes running at 280 minutes or 4 episodes (minus some credits) at 265 minutes.
Each episode is approximately 70 minutes long.
How can the DVD be the same length of the LD, yet have 5 episodes???
Does Lars von Trier appear on-camera in the 2 end credit sequences?

 

[Mark_vdH]

I saw The Kingdom three times on television, and to the best of my recollection, I watched it twice in the four-epidode form, and once in its five-episode form.
I always thought that either it was cut by the TV broadcast company for convenience reasons, or that I was crazy thinking I saw it cut in five episode. I can only remember the end credits in its four-episode form though (one at the end of ep.2 and one at the end of ep.4), so I guess I can't contribute something useful..... :rolleyes

 

[Duncan_N]

Re: The burnt-in subtitles. I don't speak Danish so it's no problem to me - I would never be watching it without. I can understand though how it would be a pain to the large proportion of danish speaking americans who are going to be buying this disc.

Maybe they should not have bothered releasing this in the first place. I'll be glad just not to have to pay somewhere in the region of $120 for a taiwanese copy of both series.

 

[Rain]

As I've mentioned before in this thread, IMDB indicates the original version was 5 episodes. Since that's what's on the DVD, I'm inclined to believe that at least is correct.

 

[Mark McLeod]

Mark

I've seen The Kingdom many times (cinema/LD/TV)

and it's always been 4 complete episodes running at 280 minutes or 4 episodes (minus some credits) at 265 minutes.

Each episode is approximately 70 minutes long.

How can the DVD be the same length of the LD, yet have 5 episodes???

Does Lars von Trier appear on-camera in the 2 end credit sequences?

I've never seen The Kingdom so I'm only able to go by what I have in front of me both on the forum and on the discs.

The DVD does contain 5 episodes as previously stated and each one has opening and closing credits. Lars von Trier does appear during the closing credits on all 5 episodes.

Here are the approximate running times of the episodes.

Episode 1 : The Unheavenly Ghost 51 minutes

Episode 2 : Thy Kingdom Come 51 minutes

Episode 3 : Hark and Ye Shall Hear 50 minutes

Disc 2

Episode 4 : A Foreign Body -50 minutes

Episode 5 : The Living Dead 51 minutes

That add's up to 253 minutes. So could the episodes be cut. There are what appears to be full credits so I'm not sure. I really don't know enough about the series.

What do you guys think.

 

[Rain]

What do you guys think.

I think it would have been a wonderful, stellar release if it weren't for the burnt in subs. Everything else sounds just perfect.
So close, why not do it right all the way?

No, that's not even enough.

Yup, that's better.
EDIT: You know what just occurred to me? This burnt in subtitle thing is ever stupider considering it's a Canada-only release. Hello! This is a bilingual country--we have 2 official languages.
EDIT #2: I flew off the handle so fast about the subs that I didn't even notice the running time discrepancy. Sounds like we have another problem.
Well, that's it for me. I'm not buying this half-assed release. Does anyone have an email or snail mail address for Seville where I might send them a letter to express my disappointment?

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

I have the Chinese DVD (Forel DVDM-0044). The package lists a running time of 278 minutes. The disc's elapsed time on my Sony is 263 minutes. The DVD has removable subtitles and is full frame; picture quality is decent (lots of artifacting, but who knows where that was introduced), at least on the 27" set, I haven't played it on the FPTV yet. The disc does omit the first set of end credits, but does have the set of main title credits (beginning the second half at around the 2:07 mark) for the second half. The end credit sequence for the second half does have Lars vT talking, but there are no subtitles provided for it. I saw The Kingdom (and The Kingdom 2) theatrically, they were both presented full-frame; not that that was necessarily the correct framing, but that's how they showed it. This Chinese DVD essentially replicates the theatrical presentation I saw in the USA (as a movie in two parts), except for the missing end titles of the part one and the missing translation of the credits of part two.

I'm not getting this new release until somebody can do a comparison with the DVD I already own.

 

[Bill McA]

Now I'm really confused......
After reading Mark's episode and run-time breakdown (including an episode that I've never seen!), I dug out my taped-from-US LD VHS tape and took notes:
NOTE: all episode titles AND numbers appear on-screen.
Episode One: The Unheavenly Host (no end credits) 62 minutes long
Episode Two: Thy Kingdom Come (no opening credits) 63 minutes long
Episode Three: A Foreign Body (no end credits) 67 minutes long
Episode Four: The Living Dead (no opening credits) 73 minutes long
Episode Five: there is none.....
Total running time: 265 minutes (same as the pre-release festival screening that I attended)
That means that the LD version with only 4 episodes and only 4 opening/end credit sequences is 265 minutes long, where as the Seville DVD version has 5 episodes and 10 credit sequences (according to Mark's info) yet clocks in at 253 minutes!
6 extra credit sequences, an extra episode, but still 12 minutes shorter????? And the running times of each episode are at least 10-20 minutes shorter than they should be.
Strange indeed!
And what exactly is this "Episode 3 : Hark and Ye Shall Hear"???
I have never seen an episode by that name.
If the US distributer did indeed drop an entire episode from the theatrical release, it was an amazingly seamless omission as nothing appears to be amiss in terms of the plot continuity...but that means that the Seville DVD should be an hour longer than it currently is!
One possibility is the the theatrical version has incorporated the "Hark and Ye Shall Hear" episode into the other 4 episodes for an even 2-Part theatrical presentation.
Someone's been tinkering with The Kingdom!
P.S. It is indeed a 1.33:1 OAR presentation as it was made for and originally shown on Danish TV.
The US cinema version was a crude and matted blow-up job (and very hard on the eyes!)

 

[Mark McLeod]

This is just as puzzling to me if not more so as I have no background information on the project at all. I have the press release (which I posted above), this thread and a 2 disc set that claims to be 265 minutes on the package. It's possible that I could have miscalculated the running time.
I'll check it more closely over the weekend.
As for the missing episode or retitled episode. No idea
Here's a screenshot of the menu
Link Removed
You can clear see 5 episodes and one called Hark and Ye Shall Hear.
Could they have possibly edited a couple episodes together thus causing each one to have a shorter running time.
I can probably contact Seville in the morning about this but before I do I want to know what's supposed to be out there so I don't look like a moron. I highly doubt Seville has left anything out on purpose.
Furthermore could NTSC vs PAL speed-up or slowdown cause the missing minutes?

 

[Bill McA]

Furthermore could NTSC vs PAL speed-up or slowdown cause the missing minutes?

Supposedly the US LD is a PAL to NTSC transfer (it looks fine by me) and the running times are posted earlier.
If the Seville disc is a true NTSC transfer, the running time would be longer, not shorter.
And as I stated, the LD running time is exactly the same as the 24fps theatrical version!
Episode One was most definitively titled The Unheavenly Host on all previous versions, not 'Ghost'.

 

[Artur Meinild]

I'll tell you this:
The Kingdom is 4 episodes. The Kingdom II is 4 episodes.
That's the way they aired on danish TV, so that's the way it's supposed to be. I imagine two of the ending credits must be identical on the 5-episode DVD set of The Kingdom.
And Aaron, I'll gladly come to your house and translate, all expenses paid!

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

Supposedly the US LD is a PAL to NTSC transfer (it looks fine by me) and the running times are posted earlier.
If the Seville disc is a true NTSC transfer, the running time would be longer, not shorter.
And as I stated, the LD running time is exactly the same as the 24fps theatrical version!

Did you time the theatrical print when you saw it? Perhaps the theatrical print was blown up from the already-subtitled UK TV/video version? If that's the case, the Seville DVD (and the US LD) could have come from film and still exhibit PAL artifacting and speedup.
The Japanese LD is nearly 20 minutes longer, has a lower pitch, and has a much, much sharper and cleaner picture. It also only has Japanese subs. I thought that the US LD looked just great until I saw the Japanese one. The difference in the transfer is like night and day.
I was just thinking that US TV one hour shows run about 50 minutes, don't they? So perhaps this new DVD is from some version of the show prepped for North American TV, explaining the 5 episode/4 episode thing. It would also explain the imdb entry -- someone saw it on TV in a five episode format in the US and entered that.
On the 4 episode formatted LD, the episodes clearly end with jolts.
Mark, does the DVD version end episode one with something that scared the hell out of you? Because I was shaking for about twenty minutes.
Damn, this thread makes me want to watch The Kingdom right now!
Artur, you coming to Toronto any time soon?

 

[Bill McA]

I was just thinking that US TV one hour shows run about 50 minutes, don't they? So perhaps this new DVD is from some version of the show prepped for North American TV, explaining the 5 episode/4 episode thing.

I have watched The Kingdom twice on North American television broadcast and it was exactly the same as the US theatrical release...a 2-episode Part 1 and a 2-episode Part 2. There was never an Episode 5!
And who better a source than Artur Meinild (from Denmark) to verify that the original series was on 4 Episodes long!

 

[Mark McLeod]

I emailed my contact at Seville to try and get to the bottom of this and he replied earlier today. Sadly my email has been acting up and I just got it now.

Here's his complete email totally unedited.

-

Hey Mark,

I'm going to have to do some research on this and get back to you. When we printed the DVD wraps I simply took the runtime off of our VHS sleeve. It's possible that VHS time was a misprint or something.

What also may account for the discrpancies is that this film has many versions out there.... this is the one we have. I know that there have been theatrical screenings of this. Surely modifications were done for that. And

you raise a good point... transfering from PAL to NTSC certainly does change the runtime, without actually editing out material.

There is also confusion because there is a Kingdom part 2. We don't have it and i know nothing about it.

Anyways... i'm going to look more into this. Thanks for the heads up.

Basically the mail I sent him was compiled from all the various information on this thread. He is going to get back to me on this and I will of course let you know his progress. It'll probably be after the weekend unless there is more email from earlier in the day that's just now floating into my inbox.

I'll keep you all posted.

Mark

 

[Duncan_N]

Anymore news on this?