Videogame VIOLENCE, Is There Too Much Violence in Games? (1 Viewer)

[Chris_Anders]

Let your creative and argumentative minds roam free people, start from the beginning of gaming history in relation to violence in videogames and the supposed consequences, to the present day situation of more realistic violent games becoming mainstream.

A past example of a violent game that supposedly "influenced" people was Doom, or Mortal Kombat.

The most recent example of violence in games is GTA3, the epitome of violent gaming. What say you all on this subject?

 

[Chris_Anders]

Since its my thread, i'm going to start it off:

I do not think game violence influences children, their parents do.

 

[CRyan]

Yes, and I think the parents should control gaming habits. Kids should not be exposed to certain things until certain ages.

It is up to the indivdual parents to decide when is the right time for their children.

C. Ryan

 

[Kenneth]

People with psychological problems would be susceptible to influences from any source, while well adjusted people are aware that games are just games and would not be affected. Violent games are not bad and I agree that parents (spouses/friends for adults) should raise a flag if they see children (or adults) that seem to be having problems with the games. Apparently the courts agree that media is not to blame since the Columbine case against the gaming and movie companies was just dismissed. Although gaming is extremely fun, it should never become an obsession. If it does then it will be a problem, regardless of whether it is violent or not.

Cheers,

Kenneth

 

[Mike_G]

Bottom line is this:

Did GTA3 NEED to be made? Sounds like a bunch of sociopathic misfits thought it did. I'm all for a game from the bad guy's point of view, but I think the violence went WAY too far. Anyone who designs a game like this for adults and doesn't think it's going to get into the hands of children has rocks in their head. I played GTA3 for about 20 minutes before I was utterly disgusted by it. I don't think any of us really know what kind of repurcussions a game like this will have on both children and adults alike.

As expected, people in the other thread compltetely misread the point that I was trying to make - that GTA3 crossed the line not into bad taste, but into complete immorality. We're not fighting ALIENS in this game, we're beating the shit out of old ladies and stealing their money. So, I said, if you crossed the line, why not make a videogame based on 9/11. Of course people had to say I was COMPARING them (I wasn't). Shows how much people actually READ these things.

You can have a good videogame without a tremendous amount of violence. Tell me the old videogames weren't hideously addicting. Tron, Space Invaders, Asteriods, Pac-Man, Donkey Kong. Where's the violence in those games? I think that there's a connection you make with a videogame more than a movie since you're actually controlling the action. People don't agree, but is anyone going to tell me that controlling a videogame that allows you to beat the shit out of old ladies is going to be the same as just watching a movie about it? If so, then why make a game in the first place? If anyone wanted to just watch a movie about killing policemen, then just pop in RoboCop.

But then this goes back to my original statement - did GTA3 NEED to be made? I guess this country's turning into a bunch of closet sociopaths. Someone in the other thread something that nobody caught on - people play these games because deep inside they want to do these things themselves, and since they can't, they act on their feelings with these games. Doesn't ANYONE see something wrong with that? The problem is that there's no way to know that a game will make people snap, so you make the game anyway and hope that the title of it doesn't show up in the same article that says "shooting occured today". Look, I'm all for freedom and such, but this isn't a piece of art of a jar full of piss with a crucified Jesus inside it. If games like this continue to come out, someone at some point is going to have to be accountable for it. I'm not even talking about kids, I'm talking about grown people with some deep-seeded psychological problem that just needs a catalyst. The line will continue to be crossed and I'll bet dollars to donuts that within 5 years we'll see a videogame called "9/11". How many of you would be for that? Don't think it won't happen - 5 years ago did anyone think that GTA3 would ever be made?

Mike

 

[BrianB]

5 years ago did anyone think that GTA3 would ever be made?

Yes. In fact, I'm suprised 'it' wasn't made sooner... There weren't as many cash-ins as we thought there would be at the time of GTA.

 

[BrianB]

I'm talking about grown people with some deep-seeded psychological problem that just needs a catalyst.

Catcher in the Rye was allegedly the 'catalyst' for a bunch of serial killers. Charles Manson believed Helter Skelter was written purely at him. Should we ban that book & song?

And thank you for calling me a sociopath for my participation in the first two GTA games.

 

[Dean DeMass]

Did GTA3 NEED to be made? Sounds like a bunch of sociopathic misfits thought it did.

So you are calling BrianB and all of the other developers of the GTA series sociopathic misfits? You must also be calling me and everyone else who enjoys the GTA series sociopathic misfits? I never understood how someone can resort to insults when they don't agree with someone else's tastes. Telling me I am a sociopathic misfit for likeing a game like GTA3 is just as bad has putting a person down becasue of their sexual tastes. If I like something you don't like, I don't call you names. I respect your feelings on it and that is fine. Please don't shove your morals down my throat. I respect the fact that you do not like GTA3 and that it should not have been made. Just don't go insulting people because they disagree with you.
Just because I enjoy a violent game that does not make me a violent person or a person who deep down wants to be violent (this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard). I am a person that believes in discussing things 1st, not resorting to violence. I woud never harm a hair on anyones head unless they threatened me or my family. I enjoyed the GTA series because they are great games that are entertaining and well designed. GTA3 is a great game because it puts us in a 3d world with a great story and great actors doing the voices of the characters. Since I also enjoyed a film like Traffic, does that mean deep down inside I want to be a Drug Lord? No, it means I enjoy different things from different perspectives. I have an open mind and a sane mind.
I admire BrianB and his fellow developers to have the balls to make such a controversial series of games. I hope they are never toned down, it would be a shame if they were.
BTW, I have always thought Pac-Man sucked, but I don't hate anyone or will insult anyone who likes it.
-Dean-

 

[Richard Kim]

But then this goes back to my original statement - did GTA3 NEED to be made? I guess this country's turning into a bunch of closet sociopaths. Someone in the other thread something that nobody caught on - people play these games because deep inside they want to do these things themselves, and since they can't, they act on their feelings with these games. Doesn't ANYONE see something wrong with that?

No, in fact some experts have noted that watching violent content or playing violent games actually have a cathartic effect on the individual, making it less likely for him/her to commit acts of violence.

Look at Japan for example. They have some pretty graphic and depraved entertainment compared to the US, but their violent crime rate is much lower than here.

EDIT: As for older games, there's always been violence in video games. It's just that systems were not as powerful as todays PS2s and X-Boxes, and that the violence did not look as realistic as they do today. Look at Super Mario Bros. Stomping on turtles, kicking their shells around, burning them with fireballs, seems violent to me.

 

[Dave Falasco]

I saw the movie "Quills" over the weekend, and some interesting (to me, anyway) parallels can be drawn between the central conflict of that movie and our current discussion.
The movie was about the imprisonment and attempted rehabilitation of the Marquis de Sade, who (as you undoubtedly know) wrote some very scandalous stories filled with all manner of sexual perversions at a time when that was unheard of. I won't go into the whole story, but in a tearful confrontation between the heroine and the abbe in charge of the Marquis, when it was discovered that the good lady herself read and enjoyed the Marquis' stories, she proclaimed that she put herself in the stories when she read them, and that the reason she could be so good in real life is because she was allowed to be so bad in the stories.
Maybe there is something to that? I mean, I'm sure we are all decent, civilized people here. No one would advocate actually going out and doing all of the things that GTA3 lets us do virtually. But there is also a part of us that thrills when Neo shoots up the lobby or when the Tony Soprano strangles a squealer. Maybe this game allows us to indulge those dark impulses in a harmless way? After all, we live in a society where the highest rated TV shows are ones in which we can watch other people eat disgusting things, get covered in rats or bugs, and viciously plot each other's downfall in front of the camera. Obviously we (as a group) get a charge from watching other people get hurt, whether we like to admit it or not. Perhaps games (and books, and movies) like this allow us to explore those urges in a way such that no one actually gets hurt?
Or maybe people just find it fun to play.
Still, you can't seriously be surprised when a game with this kind of content provokes strong reactions. I may not agree with everything Mike_G is saying, but I do admire him for sticking to his guns in the face of almost unanimous opposition. If he says the game sickens him, I understand that. But I also don't think that makes the people who designed and those who enjoy this game sickos.

 

[Mike LS]

I don't think anybody can seriously disagree that kids pick up what they see on TV. Especially younger kids.
I have a good friend (church friend, no less) that has a 2 year old son. He has GTA3 and the two of us love playing that game (wish it were 2 player).
Do I think it's wrong to play? No. I'm a grown man and can choose to play whatever game I wish.
What I do have a problem with, is that my friend doesn't seem to mind his 2 year old sitting in the floor with us, staring at the TV as all this goes on.
He's not my son, so it's none of my business and I haven't said anything about it (so far). But I can see that this kid is much more prone to punch and kick and play extrememly rough than any other 2 year old I've seen.....and I've seen some rough ones.
I mean, I've been kicked in the shins and hit in the gonads by this kid enough to see the need to wear catchers gear when I'm around him. And he gets really riled up when there's a game playing.
This is loosely related, but they also don't seem to have a problem with him watching violent movies. I mean, one of the movies this kid cries to see every day is "Kiss of the Dragon". How violent is that? For me it's entertaining (although I didn't like the movie that much), but for an impressionable 2 year old kid, I think it borders on mistreatment.
Is this the game developers, or movie makers fault? NO, NO, NO. The responsibility is always on the parent to make the right choices for their kids, at whatever age, whether they like it or not.
Granted, I do think it's sad that we get our kicks out of stuff like this, but that just goes to show the deplorable state that the human race is in....but that's a totally different can of crap that I don't want to get into here.
Bottom line is, yes, there's alot of games out there that kids have no business laying eyes on. But it's the responsiblity of parents to see that this is the case, not the game maker, retailer or government. We've gotta stop blaming society for all of the problems we have and shoulder some of the blame ourselves.

 

[Todd H]

I've been watching this discussion for a while now and must say that it brings up some interesting points. However, I have yet to see Mike_G answer the question of whether he has actually played GTA3 or read the instruction book. For the sake of discussion, could you please answer this question? Thanks.

 

[Dave Falasco]

Todd, Mike did say "I played GTA3 for about 20 minutes before I was utterly disgusted by it" in his earlier post.

 

[Joe Murray]

Sick people are going to do sick things whether they are exposed to violence or not. I grew up watching the Terminator and Rambo and playing violent video games. I didn't turn into a criminal or drug addict. I don't want my personal freedoms to play whatever game or watch whatever movie I want because of some lunatic.

 

[Ricky Hustle]

I think GTA3 sucks. Played for a 1/2 hour at a friends. I like to put myself into a game in a role-playing sense. Make me a space-marine, street racer, street fighter etc. anyday. I simply cannot get into role-playing the bad guy. Not just a bad guy, but a sociopathic bad guy.

I'm surprised at how popular GTA is, but to each his own I guess.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

nope.

 

[Kenneth]

My kids have played a variety of video games and the violent ones haven't disturbed them as much as The Sims, ironically. Most violence in video and computer games has a surreal quality to it, and as such, a normal person has no problems confusing reality and games. The Sims, paradoxically is real enough that my kids could understand and relate to it. They laughed when their Sim would go to the bathroom or make a mess and one of my younger ones was in tears after the social worker took his baby away. Although there have been a few games (produced by hate organizations) that I have found to be morally repugnant, most games are exactly that, GAMES. If children (and adults) are properly supervised to make sure that the content does not disturb them, then I see no reason for anyone else to be involved in choosing or regulating the content.

Kenneth

 

[Chris_Anders]

Interesting stuff Kenneth. Never thought about the Sims as a violent game. I don't think it is inerintly violent, but you definately do become attached to your characters, more so than any other game I've played. And I don't mean attached in an, "Aw CRAP! I just got to levl 332 and I just died and lost all my power ups!" I mean in an, "NO! They took her baby! Thats not fair! She was taking good care of him!" Or, "Why did grandma have to die in that fire!" Considering the amount of emotional envolvement that goes into this game, it can be brutal at times for a younger child, heck even for an adult.

Hey Mike G, I played the first 2 GTA's and have yet to play the third, I don't consider myself a sociopath in the least bit. I've never raped, killed, shot, ran over anybody, and I spent more hours on those games than anybody has yet with GTA3.

 

[Todd H]

Thanks Dave. I must have missed it.

I have no problem with Mike_G's beliefs. My problem with Mike_G is that he states his opinion as though it were fact. He makes statements such as "GTA3 crossed the line not into bad taste, but into complete immorality." Of course what he fails to realize is that this is just his opinion. And then when someone doesn't share his morals he stereotypes them as "closet sociopaths."

Mike, just because someone has a different set of values from yours does not automatically make them wrong. I personally see nothing wrong with GTA3. But I wouldn't let my child play it. And I think that's what this all boils down to...it's up to the parents to decide, not the "morality" police.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Mike_G]

Oh, too funny.

So, back on topic, what IS too much violence? Where do those of you that actually enjoy GTA3 think the line is crossed?

Mike