Videogame VIOLENCE, Is There Too Much Violence in Games? (1 Viewer)

[BrianB]

Post Columbine lawsuit against id, Atari & a whole bunch of rich entertainment related companies was dismissed yesterday:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...columbine_dc_1

 

[Kelley_B]

I enjoyed GTA3 for the ability to go anywhere, do anything, yes even pick up hookers, and yes even beat those hookers to get your money back. You didn't have to do those actions, but the game LET YOU CHOOSE to do them. You could choose to be an asshole or you could choose to go around and do your job and get out of the scummy city that the game placed you in.

I think it should be up the individual to judge what he wants to play, see, listen, and do...not in videogames, but life and thats why i feel that videogames don't have too much violence in them, but I do wish there was more sex in them....excuse me I need to pick up some hookers, because I can.

 

[MikeAlletto]

The line will continue to be crossed and I'll bet dollars to donuts that within 5 years we'll see a videogame called "9/11". How many of you would be for that?

See I don't think we will. There aren't any Pearl Harbor games are there? Let you plan and defend or attack Pearl Harbor? There is not much game concepts that would fit well into 9-11. Depending upon what the game was I probably wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[DarrinH]

I just experienced what everyone has been talking about with GTA3. I played last night for about 3 hours and loved it. Am I a sick individual, no. I have not even had a speeding ticket in my life. I thought about the violence today and how this country seems to be going down fast with our lifestyles and american desires but then I realized something. Nothing has changed.

In midevil days people use to gather to watch real live executions as entertainment. How does this differ?

It is up to the parents to parent! Will this get into the hands of children, you bet! So do porno mags!

You can not and should not sheild children from everything in this world. You should teach them what is good and bad and teach them to make the right decision on their own or at least until they are adult enough to know better.

 

[Mike LS]

So, back on topic, what IS too much violence? Where do those of you that actually enjoy GTA3 think the line is crossed?

That just it. Who draws the line? The individual draws the line. Nobody else can do that for you.
Personally, I do think that GTA3 is too violent as a whole. But that's my personal opinion and I can't expect the next guy to feel the same way.
Is it too violent for me to play? No, I don't think so. I don't personally own the game since I don't have a PS2. I believe it's going to be released very soon on the XBOX, so I'll have to make that decision when it releases.
But again, that will be my personal decison to make.
Do I think it's too violent for kids? Absolutely. I'd never let my kids (future tense) play a game like that. Some might think that I'm over-protective, but I doubt seriously that I'd let any child of mine under 18 own a game like that....as long as they live in my house.
But there too, that's my personal decision.
The thing that's got to be realized here is that I can't decide what's best for somebody else. I have my opinions of what's best for other people, but things like that are best left unsaid unless that person asks me.
Every person is created with a free will. Alot of folks make bad personal decisions with that free will, but that's not my problem.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

No game NEEDS to be made. If the developer has a good idea and thinks it will sell, then they make it. Simple as that.

Do we need porn? Do we need so much violence on the news? Do we need the Sopranos?

Videogames DO influence kids, but not nearly as much as good parenting does. If a kid plays a game or watches a movie/TV show where a guy's head is cut off, he says "cool" but if the parent makes sure that the child knows its not real, he won't go crazy and kill people.

While violence in games might have negative effects on some kids (not all), does that mean nobody should make the games? Should nobody be able to buy them?

And you can't blame psychological problems on games. They used to think that marijuana makes you go crazy, while in fact, it calms you down.

People killed people and enjoyed levels of violence before games.

I don't see a reason why they shouldn't make a violent game. If people don't want to play a violent game, then it shouldn't be whether or not the developer should make it, but whether or not someone is going to buy it. If someone won't buy it, then they shouldn't make it since its a waste.

Real life is worse than anything you could possibly make in a game. No matter what, there are worse things in life than there are in games that you should protect your kids from.

And about GTA3, you kill bad guys, too.

 

[Paul Richardson]

Did GTA3 NEED to be made?

No. Does ANY video game NEED to be made? No. They are just entertainment...they aren't going to cure cancer or solve world hunger.
Don't like GTA3? Fine, don't play it. Don't buy it. Don't want your kids playing it? Fine, don't let them. Simple as that.

 

[Calvin Watts III]

Real life is worse than anything you could possibly make in a game. No matter what, there are worse things in life than there are in games that you should protect your kids from.

Morgan,that statement is one of the best things I have seen you comment on,and I agree with you completely.
If you don't like a particular game you don't have to play it.
If you think said game is sick/immoral/insert bad name, then don't recommend it.
If there is something awful on tv that you don't like,then either change the channel or turn off the thing.
That is your right.
It is also my right to watch,and play, said games/tv shows/whatever, if I so choose.
If you don't like that,then phooey on you.
It is not the government's job to teach kids right & wrong,or to teach morals.
It begins & ends with the parents,who should be the ones who decide what their children do. PERIOD.
Case in point: There is an ongoing story going on in my area about a Columbine-type situtation that was prevented by a student telling the authorities what was being planned. Some students have been arrested, & the case is ongoing. One of the students' Mom complained to a local newspaper that her son could never do such a thing.
That it was his friends faults...& his girlfriend for ratting on him...& the police..& the faculty at the school...and the media....and so on and so forth.
But the police found in her basement guns,ammo,explosives, & other nasty things.
If anyone is to blame,it is her,for doing such a piss poor job of raising her child.
If more people minded their own business,and properly took care of their own, I believe there would be far less ills in this world.
(phew)
Anyways...
GTA3 is a extremely violent game. I firmly believe that no one under the age of 16 should be allowed to play it.
Or until their parents think that they are mature enough to handle the game theme, and that they understand that it is Only a Game & something that never should ever be even thought of in real life.
I am all for ratings,for tv/music/movies/games. I am all for those ratings to be either enforced/or for the people selling said things to better inform parents about said product.
But you can't just close off your children to what is happening in today's society. They aren't going to stay young forever,& sooner or later,they are going to see & hear some not so nice things. Better to hear them from you,so you can honestly answer their questions,and teach them,than from another source.
Calvin

 

[Masood Ali]

Well, here's a victory for those of us who think scapegoating videogames is crime in itself:
Columbine Lawsuit A Failure
The person/s who made that suit in the first place are pathetic individuals.

 

[Ike]

The judge said the two gunmen were the ones responsible for the teacher's death.

Mike,

Do you have a problem seeing the police of GTA3 as fake? You seem to constantly act like they are real. You know, when the guy on the game shoots one of them, he doesn't have a grieving family at home, or kids that don't have someone to support him. He simply isn't drawn on screen anymore.

As such, your idea of a 9/11 game, while in bad taste, would be similar-a game didn't kill 5,000 people, and not playing it won't change what happened.

Just remember-it's fake. If you can't handle how far an act of cartoonish violence goes, turn the PS2 off. But for those of us that played it beyond 20 minutes, it was one of the best games of the year.

 

[Mike_G]

Do you have a problem seeing the police of GTA3 as fake?

[sarcasm] (since you probably think I'm being honest)

Yeah, Ike, that's it. I get too involved with the characters in videogames.

[/sarcasm]

Don't you read ANYTHING I said?

Mike

 

[Ross Williams]

So, back on topic, what IS too much violence? Where do those of you that actually enjoy GTA3 think the line is crossed?

For the gaming industry I don't think there is a line to be crossed. It's up to each indivudual to decide where they are going to draw the line on video game violence. My mom thought it was sad how I would jump on and "kill" all the turtles in Super Mario Bros. Obviously her tolerance is much lower than mine, because GTA3 is my all time favorite game. And I'd love to have a game where there was Dead-Alive type gore involved. Does that make me a psychotic? No. I love horror movies and violent games, but watching the evening news makes me sick. Fictional violence I see as entertainment, I can't stand real violence.

Oh and just as a side note, my friend that introduced me to GTA3 is a cop. He enjoys killing cops and innocent bystanders just as much as anyone else, because he too knows the game is fake.

And so you know, after finishing the game, there is not a single mission where you are supposed to kill a clean law enforcer. There are a few dirty cops who need to be taken out, but mostly you're killing mafia and gang members. So in that sense you're actually sort of a good guy. Not much different than a lot of comic book heros, except without the superpowers.

 

[BrianB]

So in that sense you're actually sort of a good guy.

Something that's often forgotten in discussions about the GTA games is that if you kill lots of cops, you *will* get taken down by law enforcement eventually. It takes a LOT of skill to avoid the escalting police/military forces for a long period of time.

 

[Ike]

Anyone who designs a game like this for adults and doesn't think it's going to get into the hands of children has rocks in their head.

My post was sarcasm, but if you really want to get into what you've said, all I see is that you think the violence went to far, and that children could be influenced, but there is a certain tint of genuinely being offended on behalf of the cops. Your constant cry of how GTA3 slipped into immorality in it's violence means that there is some harm in fake violence. My point was, that being offended at killing fake cops because *gasp* there are real cops is silly, since no real cops are killed.

So what's your problem, if it's not fake cops being killed? Kids getting the game? That's not the designer's faults, but a faulty rating system, and a problem at retailers. So, what, exactly is your big deal?

I don't know what the constant personal attacks are about, but why not tone it back. Everyone's ready for a civil discussion.

 

[BrianB]

why not make a videogame based on 9/11?

Already been done.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

people play these games because deep inside they want to do these things themselves, and since they can't, they act on their feelings with these games. Doesn't ANYONE see something wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with it at all. As a matter of fact, that's a healthy thing. When you have people that contain frustrations with life, and channel that anger through something else (art, sports, or videogames), that's a great thing.
To use an analogy, a worker in a corporate office bothered by his boss and is so frustrated, he squeezes the hell out of a stress ball. Mike_G, are you saying that there is something wrong with a worker who takes his frustrations with his boss out on a squeezable stress ball?
Now honestly here, it would be more disturbing if these people acted on these impulses in reality.
I have a disagreement with the parking Nazis of the University of Kentucky. The fact that I go and play GTA3 and triumph when I outrun and beat down a bunch of pigs to vent frustrations from said parking Nazis makes me a sociopath? Hardly.
If I'm going to take a firm stand on anything, it's that the person most responsible for the actions of an individual is the individual themselves. None of this "blame society, parents, and the media" crap.
But oh well, what do I know, I play violent video games.

 

[Sean Oneil]

I think that to a large extent people can be quite unaware just how the things they see, hear, feel, are exposed to, and experience over the course of their lives really shapes and affects who they become. This applies to 'Adults' as well as children -We never stop learning.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Christopher Collins]

This is a pretty tired topic and im sure its all been said before but Ill chime in and have a stab at it anyway.

We live in a world where the majority of people do not want to take responsibility for their actions. They want to be able to pawn the blame onto anything they can.

On the same token we also live in a society where we must protect ourselves from our own ignorance. If you doubt that for one second think about this ...We need seatbelt laws because people are too stupid to see the benefit in wearing them. I could go on listing things but I think you get the point.

To say that there is too much violence in a video game is completely subjective. What are we comparing it to? If you compare it to real war, its not even close. If you compare it to prime time TV I think you might have about a one to one ratio. Personally I think that some children’s shows are more horrific than any war will ever be. Those shows don’t even have violence. Of course that’s my personal opinion as well.

No one cares that our kids are the relentless targets of marketing schemes for toys, clothes and food. No one cares that false images are being presented to him or her from day one. They are being groomed for product purchases through the rest of their lives. None of that brain washing matters, only video games?

What about the parents? No one even looks to the parents as a source of responsibility for how their kids grow up. It’s always the Video games, the news media, the cartoons, the music, the drugs, and the sexually explicit movies...

So where to we draw a mark in the sand? That’s all it will ever be. It will not be permanent because at some point something else will come along that will eat up all of our attention. Then we will forget about this or that and move on. We will write new definitions and old ones will be lost because they are not "relevant" anymore. If we say that’s too much violence today will it actually help? It might, who knows until we do it?

I think that the first mark in the sand is the parents. Being a parent is more than providing for the child. It is informing them about how to make sane and well-founded life choices based on the views of a free society. Playing the most violent games in the world should have no effect on that process. If a child is not able to separate reality from fiction they need help. If a child must turn to Movies, TV, Video Games, or The Internet for advice on how to live their lives, we have a problem that goes a lot deeper than any video game will ever reach. We have a problem with moral parenting values that must first start with grown ups taking responsibility for their own actions. Like being a Bad Parent.

Freedom means the right to publish video games with any amount of violence or content one wishes. The free market decides which games are successful. Just like any other product. No one "truly" has the right to censor or moderate their use. However, consider the following;

There will always be people too stupid to wear seatbelts.

 

[Chris_Anders]

After listening to a rousing rendition of the Southpark Movie song titled, "Uncle Fu**er" I can honestly say that such things can influence children. I know its not violence, but man, I was singing that song ALL DAY LONG, maybe its just a catch tune. I did laugh all day though
Basically my point is this: Videogames are not the only form of entertainment that is considered "inapropriate" for children. Kids can be bombarded from the tv to the stereo, to the computer. But you know what, I WANT to see, hear and play that stuff, and I WILL NOT be held back because some moron is pissed that their kid played GTA3 and then went and shot 30 people. I can gauruntee that such a person would have very deep issues that would not be caused simply by a video game, movie or song.
Another thing, haven't any of these parents or people heard of parental control devices? The Xbox has one by the way. Don't want your kid to play GTA3 behind your back, then set the password for a ESRB rating. On the computer set your parental controls, there are plenty of ways to keep your kid innocent through the innocent years.
Its not up to the developers to check their content, its up to those who have the power to view it.

 

[Jason Handy]

And I don't think this has really been mentioned directly...

The entertainment industry operates by responding to (or anticipating) the demands of the market. They are responsible for making products that will sell. We are the people that drive that market. If the entertainment industry releases something that the masses do not like (aka DIVX), we have the power to make it go away. It is not responsible for making sure the content is kept from children. Jeez, 8 year old kids these days have free access to some of the sickest porn on the net, just a couple of clicks away. The news media posts articles detailing graphic acts of bloodshed and violence. And we are worried about a game? Look at real life!

Society's mores(value system) are most easily represented as a slowly expanding circle. More and more content is being considered OK by our standards. South Park for example has pioneered the use of the word @$$hole during prime time. The line never comes back on itself, it is always advancing. We are becoming more desensitized to things like school violence, sexual promiscuity. We are becomng more alienated in internet chat rooms and anonymous forums where we try to lead double lives - to make up for our real ones.

Violent video games are just one facet of the whole puzzle. Heck I remember when my parents would roll their eyes upon seeing Rambo 2 on HBO...the glorification of killing at its best. Blood, gore, guns, you name it. But I turned out fine. Why? I had FANTASTIC parents! I knew right from wrong because my parents let me grow up in the real world, not some manufactured Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

You can, as a parent, try to teach your child that the world is full of love and happiness and that everybody gets along, but once they have their first day of school and Johnny gets bullied for his M&Ms, you have to hope that he will make the right decision. If you prevent your kids from having to make decisions at a young age, they don't get used to it, and will screw up when on their own. You can keep violent games away from them and this is something I advocate, but you have no right to tell somebody else how to live their life or how to raise their child - until a law is broken.

This is a great debate, but the inherent problem is that people take it so personally. Its not like we are changing the world here. And it is not like we need to hear the same person's opinion 20 times on the thread.

Mike_G, I think you have some growing up to do. The problem as I see it is that you are having trouble grasping the idea that a person can play violent video games and still be a good person. You seem determined to hate people because they enjoy violent games. And I think this might have something to do with the fact that you are a parent and just want your kid to grow up in the best world possible. Unfortunately, the fact is...the real world is not a garden of eden. But we have to accept the fact that the average human is capable of discerning games from real life.

Let me ask you this...if an actor plays a KKK member who hangs a black man in a movie, is he a bad person? No. Let me ask you this...if an actor plays a rapist in a movie does that make him a bad person? No. Yet by your logic, they are, because you are saying BrianB is a raging sociopath for his involvement in the making of GTA3. This is why you have some growing up to do...try to keep it all separate and you will sleep much better at night.

Peace,

Jason