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Video jitter : PC -> HDMI cable (15m) -> Samsung LED 46 (1 Viewer)

Alonzzo2

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Alon
Hi,
I've searched everywhere for a solution to my problem and can't seem to find it:
My setup:
i5 750, gtx 460 1G, Win 7 (also tried Win 8) 64 bit, mini hdmi adapter to hdmi -> hdmi cable (15m which costs around 80$) -> Pioneer 521k receiver -> Samsung UA46C6900 LED tv
My problem:
When playing a video (720p/1080p) from my PC to my TV, especially when the picture is panning, the video stutters a bit. some people don't notice it until I point it out to them, but I sure do.
What i've tried to fix this:
used wmp12, bsplayer, mpc-hc, xbmc. switched codec pack from K-Lite to Shark007.
checked that the cable is ok - connected it to my set top box which outputs 1080i (i'm not sure about the i) and the video ran smoothly.
changed the frequency of the signal - tried 23, 24, 29, 30, 59, 60hz. some of which were in interlaced mode.
tried different movies of course.
NOTHING WORKS! - and it runs smoothly on my 22" pc monitor.
I think the most significant thing I did trying to resolve this issue was playing around with the frequency - I've noticed the problem being a lot worse when I changed the frequency to some of the other frequencies. the frequency in which the video stuttered the least was 60hz.
I've read somewhere that this problem is caused when the player (or the tv) tries to synchronize the sound with the video and is called jitter? I'm quite confused right now and not even sure what the problem is.
Does anyone have a suggestion?
I'm really desperate.
Thanks!
 

gartronics

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This is my second time looking at your post. I have been trying to think of what could be causing your issue. I can really only think of one thing and that would be that the hdmi cable is not a high speed hdmi cable. I could be wrong since you said it was like 80 bucks. It could also be the legnth of it too (15m) assuming you mean meters, that is one long cable. could be losing signal strength it that long distance. So first thing to do is find out if that cable is "high speed" then determine if you need such a long cable. If you can use a shorter one like 6 to 10 ft. that would probably be better. Also if your tv takes a VGA input try hooking that up in highest supported resolution and see if it jitters that way. If it don't than you will know it is the cable. If it is not the cable than it will probably have something to do with the tv and the way it processes video from a pc. You can get high speed hdmi cables much cheaper than 80 bucks, not sure about really long ones though. monoprice.com is the best place to get cables. Hope this helps you.
 

Alonzzo2

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Thank you for your reply.
I already tested that cable with my full hd set top box and everything worked well.
Regarding the TV - its a samsung LED 46, not a cheap tv, with great reviews.
Next week i will get a hdmi amplifier which connects to power and amplifiers the hdmi signal, i will connect it 1 meter after the pc (and will also try connecting it 1 meter before the receiver) and that way i will know for sure that the cable is ok.
From what i've read and from replies at the 'Display Devices (TVs/Projectors/Screens)' forum i understand that my tv is the prime suspect but it just seems unreasonable to me since it's a very high quality tv, and even if it is the tv, how can it be that i can watch full hd tv from my set top box perfectly?
 

Sam Posten

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It's probably that you are more sensitive to 24p playback than most people. It affects me too. It is NOT a technical issue, it is inherent in the source.
Try viewing some 60p source material, like from a camcorder.
Or turn on video smoothing.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm
Here's a big issue for folks like you and me: Hollywood is addicted to 24p, and DP's and directors fawn all over the 'film look' it gives and decry the look of 60p as 'too hyper-real' etc.
 

schan1269

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The major problem here is the 24P.
Even plasma get it wrong sometimes. And if plasma gets it wrong...LCD(and your Samsung is a LCD) has no chance.
DLP do it the best. Mainly cause the color wheel mimics a "movie theater" projector anyway.
 

schan1269

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I threw out some "laymans jargon" in there. Granted the colorwheel has nothing to do with the "actual 24p processing"...
The great majority of DLP change to 48hz to display 24p. Many plasma can change to 72hz or 96hz. It is "inherent" by the nature of the 600hz(which has nothing to do with 60/120/240/480 of LCD) a plasma runs.
Granted not all plasma can change to 48/72/96...
The basic point is, LCD are beholden to 60hz, no matter what happens. IS there a LCD on the market that can do 48/72/96? I don't think there is...
Therefor, an ability that DLP and plasma share is not found in any LCD...
Ergo, if plasma can't do it correctly...LCD has no chance.
 

gartronics

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It could just be that your tv wasn't made to accept the timings from a pc video card. I know that when I bought my vizio LCD TV it specifically said in the specs that it was HDMI PC compatible. The specs on your tv don't seem to mention anything about pc via hdmi. It is a newer tv and it should be compatible. You could also try updating your video drivers for your graphics card. I hope the amplifier works for you though. I would recommend hooking it up close to the source rather than close to the TV. Close to the source you will be boosting a cleaner, stronger signal. If you amplify the signal at the end of the line (at the TV) you may also amplify noise or at the very least a degraded signal. In the end if none of that works you may have to run video only through the VGA (DSUB) PC Input and run a separate cable for sound. Of coarse then the image would be analog but maybe that way it won't jitter.
 

Sam Posten

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Sam not to be rude but I think your enthusiasm for a particular product is overwhelming your actual technical knowledge. Native refresh rate is important yes, but it doesn't have the detrimental effect that you seem to believe.
 

schan1269

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I'm also going by my prior Directv experience. Ever since Directv started offering 1080P, it is in 24P...
We got calls from installers all the time...
"Hey, I just set up a new TV and the 1080P isn't working."
Our reply...
"What LCD do they own?"
Each LCD manufacturer has a different term for Native...
Most plasma and DLP can automatically accept 24P if it can do it native. Not sure why, but in plasma/DLP the "native off" setting is default. On LCD it isn't.
 

Mark Collins

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Did all of you know there is recall on the 2008 Samsung LCD. Google it. I just had my capacitor/ power board replaced 2 weeks ago. You have until March 2013. Free of charge from a class action suite. The set will shut on off is the first signal
 

schan1269

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By the way there is a guy with an Elite 70 having this very issue with Directv 1080P...
Either the native needs turned off...or he can't use the 1080P.
 

Sam Posten

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I don't think you are explaining the symptoms you are hearing about accurately, cause that doesn't make sense.
Are you talking about motion smoothing?
If you are saying motion smoothing isn't turned on by default and things look a bit jerky in pans that is BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT FILM LOOKS LIKE.
And yes, motion smoothing can make that look better. But it is creating tween frames which did not exist in the native material.
 

schan1269

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Directed to me??? or the OP?
Anyway...not all "features in LCD" are created equal, nor are they implemented the same way.
Toshiba pairs its native WITH the pull down. So if you turn off native you automatically turn on pulldown. (that isn't what it says in the menu, but it is what it does. How many people seeing the word "native" will turn that off?)
And the Toshiba that have motion control add that in AFTER the pulldown. So you can have pull down at 60hz, 120hz or(when applicable) 240hz.
I've seen TV where the pulldown was included with the 240hz smooth/cinema(whatever they call it).
So in this TV native IS somewhere, but I don't know what they call it. Maybe it is just "turning on the pulldown". I don't own the TV.
 

Sam Posten

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Once again tho you are conflating poor menu design with limitations inherent in an entire technology tho Sam, which is not what you first posted. You said that Dlp handles 24pbetter because it is more like film. These things don't add up.
 

schan1269

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DLP does mimic film(mimic film, to me, does NOT mean "more like film") in that it flashes...
Then those light flashes are sent through a color wheel...
IE, it is the "closest" to mimicking a bulb and film...
Mimic does not equal like.
 

Alonzzo2

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Just wanted to say thank you for all you guys and let you know that i've finally stopped messing around with this issue and watching movies using xbmc and without clone or extend on the display - the only active screen is the tv when i'm watching movies.
In the xbmc configuration i've activated dxva and i've updated my directx engine to v11.
Now the video still stutters but its very hard to notice it so it's ok... no one notices it except me, and that too happens on rare occasions.
Thanks!
 

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