Valve Skewers Nvidia (1 Viewer)

[Derrik Draven]

I haven't been into pc gaming for years. To give you an idea, the last video cards I put into my system were Voodoo II's. I do have 2 of them in there running in sli mode, though. :rolleyes

Anyhoo, back then Nvidia was taking over since 3DFX was screwing up their business model, big time.

So...what impact has ATI had on Nvidia? Serious asking here. Has ATI become the sweetheart of gamers? Nvidia losing out like 3DFX, whom they purchased?

 

[JamesHl]

So...what impact has ATI had on Nvidia? Serious asking here. Has ATI become the sweetheart of gamers? Nvidia losing out like 3DFX, whom they purchased?

Nvidia at least has a chunk of the OEM business, although that's where ATI really dominates. I think if this trend continues Nvidia may start to have problems. The next generation of cards will be important.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

My ATI 9800 is one of the most solid, reliable video cards I've had. Zero driver issues.

I've never owned a 3DFX or Nvidia card that was more reliable.

 

[Ken Chui]

Screw nvidia. But...are ATI drivers stable now?

In my personal experience, yes.

I'm using a 64MB Radeon 8500 at the moment, but plan to upgrade to a 9800 Pro or 9800TX* eventually (*contingent on the price/performance ratio from independent reviews). I started with the Catalyst 2.5 and recently upgraded to 3.6 about two weeks ago. I have never had any video-related issues on my custom-built PC.

I think that any issues encountered with drivers, whether Catalyst or Detonator, stem from improper/incomplete removal of the previous drivers.

I have been following the VALVE/nVidia saga on the tech forums and it has solidified my decision to completely forego the FX line for my next upgrade. There is a rumour circulating (and posted on one PC hardware tech site) that CompUSA is considering dropping nVidia graphics cards from its inventory, and that PC builders DELL, HP and Gateway may be looking to ATI for their OEM solutions. Keep in mind that this is only a rumour.

 

[BobV]

I know I'm resurrecting a bit of an old thread here, but you know....

The old line about ATi's drivers not being stable has been put to bed a long time ago.

For background, I've got a P4 2.0ghz with 1gb of RAM on an Asus MB.

So I went and upgraded from my Ti4400 VIVO to an ATI 9600PRO All-in-Wonder. My PC hasn't froze or crashed for three years. Within the first 60 minutes of installing the 9600PRO my desktop froze a total of 4 times. I've got all the updated drivers, everything is set right as far as I can see. Put my Ti4400 back in, solid as a rock. Put the 9600PRO back in, got a freeze. Tried another 9600PRO (I own an electronics store), same thing.

Now that said, I've only had 2 freezes with the second 9600 in about 4 hours of use (all on desktop), but still...

I dunno, seems to me that ATI still does not have their driver issues in order. Say what one wants about Nvidia, but their drivers are solid. Or am I doing something wrong?

 

[Dan Mercier]

Just curious if it may be a Power related issue?
Does an ATI all in wonder use up more power?
Is it pushing you to the limit of your Power Supply.
I read a few interesting articles recently about the
power consumption of devices in most machines and 300W PS's
just don't seem to be enough for the average machine anymore.

Anyway just speculating as I don't own either card yet cuz
I'm still in the dark ages with my 3dFX Voodoo 3 2000

 

[BobV]

Hmm, you may be on to something, never thought of that. I'll slap a 400w in there tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[Martin Rendall]

There are lots of frightening comments around the 'net regarding ATI cards and incompatibilities with other hardware. When it works, it works well, but when it doesn't...

You might want to see if there are any bios updates for your motherboard. On the other hand, you might want to leave well enough alone and just get another Nvidia card!

Martin.

 

[Romier S]

just get another Nvidia card!

Nvidia cards (including the latest FX line) which also have thier fair share of horror stories including incompatibilities with certain brand power supply brand names/motherboards etc. If you do enough research online you'll find plenty of information to make you shaky on a purchase for both brands.

As a user of both brand names over the years (3 Nvidia cards and 1 older model ATI which was horrid and my current 9700pro. Not too mention dabbling with the 5900 and 9800 line of cards) both have thier ups and thier downs. ATI drivers have improved 100 fold over the past two years and you are at this point guarenteed a new driver update almost every month (as ATI just recently went with a scedule that calls for a driver release every 4-5 weeks).

Nvidia's latest FX line is greatly improved over the the debacle that was the 5800 line. Thier new 5950 looks to improve things even further along with new set of drivers specifically tailored towards the FX line.

Bottom line, do some research, read some reviews. Take a look at pages like rage3d.com or nvnews.net. Both of which have forums and users that are usually on the up and up on what kind of bugs or problems owners of these cards are seeing and objectively make a decision based on that if your in the market for a new card.

As for me? I bought my 9700 pro a good while ago and I cant couldn't be happier.

 

[Max Leung]

I'm considering replacing my aging Geforce 4 Ti4400 with an ATI 9800 Pro now. However, it is quite pricey at 550 Canuckbucks for the 128MB version. Even more confusing, the ATI AIW 9800pro is only 5 dollars more at $555! Both cards are the ATI retail versions. Why is the All-in-Wonder only $5 more?

The Sapphire Atlantis Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB is $520. The non-pro Sapphire Atlantis Radeon 9800 128MB is $370. That's a dramatic difference in price!

Unfortunately, the 9700 Pro is not available locally.

The nice thing about my Geforce 4 Ti 4400 card is the Zalman ZM80C-HP passive heatpipe/heatsink I put on it...it's dead silent!

For a cool $50 CDN I can get another Zalman heatsink, which has been confirmed to fit the Radeon 9800 and All-in-Wonder Radeon 9800 Pro cards!

 

[Martin Rendall]

Max,

All true. The AIW comes with a component breakout cable, while the non-AIW card can have 2 vga screens. These differences are the only non-AIW related differences I know of. FWIW, I have the AIW with the Zalman ZM80C-HP, no problems (just be careful during the install).

Martin.

 

[BobV]

Ok, I've had a 350w power supply in my computer for about a week now... I still get freezes, but I will have to admit, not as many... only one a day or so (which is still 100% too many). That has me thinking that just possibly, a 400w will do the trick. That though is really quite ridiculous. I have to jump a full 100w to get stability with an ATI over the nVidia? Hmmm... seems to be quite a power hog. I'll post my findings later.

 

[Carlo_M]

BobV,

Just a thought, but aren't all power supplies not created equal? Are you using one of those generic 350W or are you using something like Enermax or one of the other "hefty" power supplies?

I thought Anandtech or some other site did a test where some generic 350W performed more like 275W while others were true to their rating. In fact, there was a correlation between power performance and weight, so of the like 50 power supplies they tested, the best ones invariably were the heavier ones.

(BTW I own an old GF2 Pro so I'm not an ATI apologist, just wondering if that could be the problem)

 

[Max Leung]

Bob, let's make sure that your system is stable...go here and download Prime95 and install it:

http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

When you install it, it will ask you if you are "Just Stress Testing"...say that you are, then go to Options/Torture Test and choose what you think is best to stress your system out.

It doesn't test your video card, so if the computer crashes or Prime95 reports errors (it performs calculations and compares to known results) you can assume that a problem is not strictly limited to your videocard.

 

[Tim Hess]

I've been using ATI cards pretty much exclusivly since the 9700Pro came out; currently using a 9800Pro (256MB).

The Catalyst Driver suite is just as stable (if not more so) than the latest revs of the Nvidia (even the recently re-badged Forceware ones).

 

[JohanD]

Speaking of ATI and half-life 2

I was recently at a retail store and on the ATI box for the 9600XT (XT I think?) was a coupon for free half-life 2 game (upon release)

Sounds like a good match up I hate it when they give you crap software with a product and claim ($200 in software included!!)

 

[BobV]

Just an update... I just could not get the 9600PRO AIW to run stable so I did a wholesale change of alot of my hardware, save the 9600, and it has been running fairly smoothly for about a month now.

I swapped out my MSI motherboard for an ASUS, upgraded from a P4 2.4 to a P4 3.0, added another 512mb Ram (now at 1GB), and added another 120GB harddrive, added a DVD burner, and along with all that swapped out one 350W power supply for another and changed my case as well to an aluminum AOpen A600 (awesome case btw, review)

So far, as I've mentioned, it seems to be pretty solid except for one program but that may be a function of a different problem.

So in the end it seems as though my ATI frustrations are over, although, I will say that I used Nvidia with my previous setup fine and it's a bit funny that the ATI didn't work with it. I am very happy with the ATI, which is the reason why I went to these efforts to get it to run stable. It's fast and feature laden, a great card despite the hiccups.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

he says that they are using the drivers that now ship with the card. The reason behind that is some users do not upgrade their drivers

wow, bad assumption. NOBODY who spends a couple hundred bucks on a video card leaves the drivers alone. like most of us, these people try out many different releases of drivers to see which work the best.

ive been using nvidia cards for quite a while now, with no reason to switch. however, i have been anticipating hl2 for a long time, and i saw the huge 600 mb video, and i will be building a computer specifically to play hl2. and quickly. on release day, if the ati card still runs hl2 better, i'll switch. anyone know if hl2 will support dual CPUs?

CJ

 

[DaveB]

I had a PSU/Mobo/GPU compatibiliy issue with the AIW 9700 Pro, switched out the PSU, and couldn't be happier with my current setup.

 

[Max Leung]

Hey Bob, great to hear you fixed your PC - uh, by effectively buying a new one!

As for HL2, I'll wait until it is released before I upgrade...it should be about the same time that the next generation of nvidia and ATI cards come out, that should improve performance even further...