UFC Ongoing Thread (1 Viewer)

[Mikah Cerucco]

Crocop was supposedly signed with DREAM when he was supposed to sign with UFC. Dana was quite verbal about it at the time. I'm not sure what all happened, but I don't think it was a matter of DREAM falling through and CroCop crawling back to the UFC. I think the UFC wants CroCop, and they found a way to get past their issues and make it happen.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

Casey and Mikah will probably back this up with insightful commentary and analysis but in laymans terms:

Anderson Silva is "The man"

 

[Carl Miller]

Originally Posted by Raasean Asaad

Casey and Mikah will probably back this up with insightful commentary and analysis but in laymans terms:

Anderson Silva is "The man"

He's The Beast! Gotta give a thumbs down to Griffin though for running out after he lost. Pretty classless IMO...If he was well enough to run out of the ring and into the dressing rooms, he was well enought to stay and give Silva his due.

Have to say, this was my first PPV purchase and overall a disappointment in terms of entertainment value for the cost...I mean seriously, two ground and pound matches which had no virtually no pound whatsoever, the pre-mature ending, Griffin's showing. AT least BJ Penn made the night somewhat worthwhile. Now he's the man!

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

Originally Posted by Raasean Asaad

Casey and Mikah will probably back this up with insightful commentary and analysis but in laymans terms:

Anderson Silva is "The man"

There's really not much that can be added to that. I couldn't believe what I was watching. I didn't think Forrest Griffin surpassed Anderson Silva in terms of skill, but I did think his tenaciousness, heart and size gave him a chance. The reality of the fight was like watching a boy fighting a man. Anderson was just so quick, and so strong.

I left that fight thinking I'd need some time to digest it, and see what reports came out today. I also want to watch it again. Was something wrong with Forrest? Did he basically give up? If so, why? Why did he run from the ring like that?

I went around the 'net a little bit to see some of the comments folks were making. I've read Forrest was overrated. Not here. I think he's earned his rating. He just came up against a fighter where his greatest attributes were useless. I've also read Anderson Silva disrespected Forrest during the fight. I can see the point, but it's not ultimately where I landed. The way I see it, Anderson's basically saying, "We're having a very public sparring match for all the fame and marbles, but I don't hate you or even dislike you." Since I watch MMA for the skill display, to some degree, I like it. Perhaps he'll treat his opponent with more caution (fear?) when he comes up against someone that makes him.

I also heard a lot about how folks dislike BJ Penn. Well, I didn't like what he did in his post-fight interview. He'd done it before, but I forgot. I don't like him telling the people who just paid his salary that if they want to know what he has to say about the fight, they have to go to his web site. Hey bucko, we're watching you now. Anyway, in the ring, he showcased what a superb fighter he is. It's was almost difficult to believe it is the same person that went up against GSP and lost so badly.

All in all, it felt like a light card in some ways, but I was satisfied with both main events.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

Its my understanding that Silva broke Forrest's jaw early in the fight and that is the supposed reason that he verbally tapped out and then immediately left the arena after the fight. I do agree wit others though that if he can walk out of the octagon then he could have acknowledged the loss and then left for treatment.

 

[Carl Miller]

Apparently, Forrest was not injured and is said to be not taking the loss well.

I agree with the knock on BJ too with his web site. I'm surprised they let him get away with that stuff. It would seem to me the UFC would benefit from some crowd interaction.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

There's never a shortage of speculation passing as information regarding MMA, so I like to get as close to the source as possible.

www.fighthype.com/pages/content5437.html

He wasn't injured. He's an emotional guy and he just didn't feel like sticking around. He's done that before. After the Jardine fight, they kind of surrounded him a little bit, but he said a couple of things into the mic and left the cage pretty quickly. Just the emotions of…here is a guy who is very confident that he could win this fight and he just never had a chance to get off. He's an emotional creature, so he left the cage. It wasn't really a big deal. I think people are making a bigger deal about it then it really is. It wasn't anything left to see anyway. Anderson had beaten him and it wasn't like it was going to a decision. We already knew what happened, so he decided to go into the back and get his tape off and get changed and everything else. I think he was kind of comforting us more than anything else because we were all down and bothered and you know, that's that.

I also completely agree with his statement that (paraphrased) everyone has a plan until he gets hit. The sports world (not just MMA) is filled with fans who know better than the people who've dedicated their lives to doing it. Nothing about that fight diminished my appreciation for the heart of Forrest Griffin. It did, however, increase my appreciation for Anderson Silva.

Speaking of Anderson Silva, I keep seeing speculation that Dana will have him fight Lyoto Machida, but from everything I've seen, Anderson keeps using words like "never". I'm not so sure Dana will fight him on this issue. He may try to convince him, but I don't think he'll employ his usual heavyhanded tactics.

 

[Bill Griffith]

Well I like Forrest. I was surprised he ran out like that, kind of a disrespectful thing to do in my opinion. Give Anderson his props and then get out of the ring and go, he didn't even do that. But about the fight.

Did it (the fight) look weird to anyone else, I mean I know Anderson is good, but Forrest, in other fights, was taking much harder hits, or what appeared to be much harder hits, and would keep on coming. Maybe Andersons hits were just hitting the perfect spot, but the first one that seem to rock him didn't look like it had much on it and the one that dropped him was what I would call a tap. Maybe it was a bad camera angle and the hit was actually harder, but after the fight I was thinking maybe he was fighting with a concusion or something and those couple of hits really rattled him. I don't know, but it just hasn't been the same Forrest since he got knocked out by Jardine. He's had some instances where it looked like he was back but ever since that fight its like he can't take a hit anymore.

The rest of the fights were pretty bad, ref stoppage in one was bad, the ref's not getting the guy back on thier feet more during a couple of others was pretty bad and all in all made for a pretty lack luster night of fighting. Penn v florian, I was very dissapointed in Florian, thought he would have been pushing the fight more, but he seemed to be back on his heels, and BJ took him apart.

Just wasn't a good night of fights.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

I read once that getting hit with such a force that your brain basically says "screw that" and goes into survival mode, does take something out of a fighter. And that's just physically. Then there's the psychological component. It's not just Forrest. Look at how quickly Chuck Liddell tumbled once he was knocked out. Remember, before Rampage, he was considered close to unbeatable @ LHW. Age catches up to a fighter (and "age" can be more than chronological numbers) in varying ways, but getting knocked out sure does accelerate the process. Younger fighters can come back from it easier. Getting submitted is much easier on a fighter than getting KTFO. I need to see more from Forrest before I'm ready to drop him a tier.

And yes, Anderson was going backwards, and the punch didn't look hard, which is why some have said Forrest was Petrucellized (after the way Seth Petrucelli knocked out Kimbo Slice). I wasn't in the ring, so I couldn't tell you if it was the accumulation of blows, or just a blow that hit exactly the right spot, but I think where it landed had at least something to do with it. What I don't think, is that Forrest in any way threw the fight (and yes, I've seen those claims as well). Anything is possible, but I'd need more proof of that than what we saw.

I'll take away a style point for Forrest running from the ring like that, but hopefully he'll realize it wasn't cool and can learn and grow from it.

 

[Carl Miller]

General theory (unproven by medical science) is that being knocked out has less to do with the actual force of a punch, and more to do with how the head reacts to getting hit and whether it rotates or snaps upward fast and violently after being hit..and if so, how fast and how violently. You can get hit pretty hard across the jaw for example, but if you're ready for it, your head wont rotate as much or as violently after being hit....you'll have muscles braced for the blow, you'll turn your body with the punch etc, etc.....Compared to a lighter punch which you're not ready for, which can spin your head even more quickly and violently than the harder punch you were expecting and thus knock you out.

Far as Forrest goes. I still think he's a great fighter, but that was poor sportsmanship on his part.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

Don't forget Strikeforce Carano vs. Cybort tonight.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

Cyborg !!!

 

[Bill Griffith]

Sweet fight Saturday Night.

Gagard was a pleasant surprise, while I like Babaloo, Gagard was impressive.

Cyborg, man oh man, I had seen fight only about 3 other times and while she was impressive I figured it was because the other people just weren't there. Gina I saw fight only 1 other time, but had always heard about her power and technique. Well, I think Cyborg fights like a man, while Gina still fights like a woman. Granted she is one of the best but Cyborg really showed how good she is. She's powerful, she's quick, and she can definitely take a punch. IMO Gina needs to work on her ground game more, she had Cyborg in two bad positions that she couldn't capitolize on. It was unfortunate as I was pulling for Gina, but a great main card and fight. Would have liked to see it go into the third though. I don't think Either women had the stamina to go 5 rounds though, at least not at the pace of the first round.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

Originally Posted by Bill Griffith

Sweet fight Saturday Night.

Gagard was a pleasant surprise, while I like Babaloo, Gagard was impressive.

Cyborg, man oh man, I had seen fight only about 3 other times and while she was impressive I figured it was because the other people just weren't there. Gina I saw fight only 1 other time, but had always heard about her power and technique. Well, I think Cyborg fights like a man, while Gina still fights like a woman. Granted she is one of the best but Cyborg really showed how good she is. She's powerful, she's quick, and she can definitely take a punch. IMO Gina needs to work on her ground game more, she had Cyborg in two bad positions that she couldn't capitolize on. It was unfortunate as I was pulling for Gina, but a great main card and fight. Would have liked to see it go into the third though. I don't think Either women had the stamina to go 5 rounds though, at least not at the pace of the first round.

One of the great things about how I enjoy sporting events is I usually don't have favorites, so I'm OK with however the chips fall. Whoever wins usually deserves it, so I take it that way. There are rare exceptions, such as my hope that Couture would win out over Lesnar.

Anyway, I completely agree about Cyborg and Gina. Gina did look like a girl fighting, and Cyborg didn't. I knew there trouble ahead when Gina gave up a full mount. As for neither woman having the stamina to go 5 rounds like the first... well, neither would the vast majority of guys. There's a natural tendency to slow down as the fights wear on. Even a male fighter as famous as BJ Penn is constantly questioned on stamina.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

Gina gave up that full mount becuse she was scared of the ground game of Cyborg. If you watch the fight you can see that when Cyborg goes to grab Gina's leg, Gina jumps out of the mount and goes back to the stand up. She is weak on the ground and knows it to be a strength of Cyborgs so she was going to what she thought was her best option.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

Right. But how often do you see a fighter give up a full mount because he's afraid of the other fighter's ground game? I've seen all kinds of bad things happen from a half mount, but a full mount? That's usually when the countdown to "fight over" starts. You afraid of Cyborg's ground game? Fine. Neutralize it by pounding her in the face. She can either grapple at your limbs or protect her face from crushing blows. She can't do both effectively. But then, maybe Gina didn't feel should had enough to finish Cyborg. I still strongly suspect Gina was beaten mentally before she got into the ring. Gina came to spar. Cyborg came to fight.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

I agree with you Mikah and I think in the rematch that she may fare worse. Cyborg was full of nervous energy and excitement that I haven't seen from her before. In the rematch she will be more confident and more focused.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

Originally Posted by Raasean Asaad

I agree with you Mikah and I think in the rematch that she may fare worse. Cyborg was full of nervous energy and excitement that I haven't seen from her before. In the rematch she will be more confident and more focused.

Rematch? Can you think of a reason for a rematch other than money? Have you heard anything, or are you just assuming it has to happen since they're the biggest names in women's MMA?

I watched the fight again, paying closer attention to Gina's disposition at various points during the fight. I'll probably watch it a few more times. But Cyborg was so much stronger and faster than Gina. Even if the fight stayed off the ground, I didn't see Gina having much of chance. Why? Because everytime Gina threw a punch, she barely deterred Cyborg, and often ate a punch in return. Unlike Gina, Cyborg's punches had bad intentions. She was going for a knockout with just about every punch, and you could see Gina recoiling and wincing after each one.

That's why I say Gina was completely outclassed (she's still my girl, though). I can't see a single area where she had any hope. Not standup/striking, ground/submission, or kicking. There are people on-line I've seen who predicted this outcome as said Cyborg surpassed Gina in every category. I wasn't aware, and it took me by surprise.

If Gina hopes to have any better luck in a rematch, she needs the equivalent of Apollo Creed to break through the mental beating she took to go along with the physical one.

In other news, Chuck Liddell was officially announced as a contestant on Dancing With The Stars.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

Yeah, I think that for the money there will be a rematch. And I was saying that Cyborg will be more confident and focused; I was typing fast so that may have been confusing (I'm a big Cyborg fan). And I don't think Gina would ever beat her; truthfully I think that if Gina loses again she will be in a similar situation to Urijah Faber having lost 2 to the champ and the champ having no reason to fight them again. Cyborg was destroying Gina no doubt, she is too fast and too strong and too hungry.

Just goes to show just the caliber of womens fighter that was "fed" to Gina to make her thae face of womens MMA. Now Gina may have better luck against Megumi Fuji or Yuka Tsuji but they are nowhere near her weight class.

I have no idea whom either fighter would face, I know that StikeForce is considering having a tournament to decide Cyborgs next opponent.

Edit: I forgot about Marloes Coenen, now she has the size and the ground game to potentionally submit Cyborg and got signed recently so there is that.