Twilight Time announces Blu-ray releases March/April 2013 (1 Viewer)

[Bryan^H]

In the laserdisc days $40-$50 for one film was the norm.

Right, and adjusted for inflation(mid 80's to early 90's) it would be closer to $75-$85 today.
I was one of those that shelled out lots of bread for movies back then.
But I agree, it depends on the individual. If $30 is to steep for you then it is. If it isn't, buy the title.

 

[Jason_V]

Originally Posted by MichaelEl /t/325955/twilight-time-announces-blu-ray-releases-march-april-2013/30#post_4014541
I don't have a problem with the price point so much as the limited availability. Criterion Blu-Rays are also expensive, but you don't have to rush to buy them on the release date because they are continuously in stock at Amazon and other online outlets. I'm sure there are many fans of NOTLD '90, FRIGHT NIGHT, MYSTERIOUS ISLAND, and JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH who would've bought the Blu-Ray but couldn't afford it in the limited time frame they were available.

It's a Limited Edition model. It's been for eons on CD's and DVD's and VHS, not to mention a slew of other products. Not too long ago, DVD's had 2 disc versions which were essentially "limited editions." Disney had their Treasures line which was "limited edition." Heck, Disney movies on home video have always been "limited" since they're pulled after a certain time.

(The McRib is a "limited time" item at McDonald's, but that really isn't a fair comparison since it does come back to stores occasionally.)

You kinda have to know what's going on in the home video market and jump on items when you want them ESPECIALLY if you know they're going to be limited. It's not like the discs get released the day after an announcement.

 

[Persianimmortal]

You know what? If their discs were ten bucks you'd read (not on this board so much) how people were waiting for them to hit the five dollar bins.

Bingo. Quite literally, even $12.99 releases (like To Catch a Thief) got the "I'll wait for it to hit $5.99" comment, on a certain board that shall remain nameless. If blu-rays are collectible toy-like objects to you, then I can understand that mentality. If you're a fan of the movie however, I can't see how what is effectively the cost of two movie tickets for a nicely presented blu-ray is going to break the bank. Obviously, we can't decide how people spend their money, but surely this "It's too expensive" spiel on virtually every page of every Twilight Time thread is getting tedious, no?

 

[Ken Volok]

Beyond stoked to see "The Fury" coming out on blu, a guilty DePalma pleasure of mine. There is one night scene inside a cab that has always been a grainfest, the aperture must've been open a mile wide! I'm wondering if any digital fixing will be employed. I think if it meets with DePalma's approval then such digital fixing is legit, he is the auteur of the film. I doubt he envisioned the image as grainy as it turned out. The grain is really so bad Universal could harvest it and add it to some of their HD masters.

 

[Jon Hertzberg]

Beyond stoked to see "The Fury" coming out on blu, a guilty DePalma pleasure of mine.

Why the guilt, Ken?

 

[rich_d]

Comparing the price of TT discs with laserdiscs? This is a wholly new argument that I've never seen before that just *might* change the way that I, and 1000s others, view their rather radical business model.
Repeat it again, 10 or 20 times, and I may just grasp it.

Agreed. This ... 'well, I paid a boatload for titles back in the day and even that didn't phase me' is great for the history books but doesn't mean a thing regarding current video valuations. Not a thing ... other than a 'sucks to be you' report.

snip ... Now we get Blu-rays that (in many cases) can even blow away the quality of film prints, so I'm an avid supporter of Twilight Time and the other labels.
Also with physical media not selling as well as it used to, I want to do all I can to support it so that we can continue to be able to buy discs for years to come.

Which is fine in intent, I just don't believe anything you do as an individual consumer truly matters. What I mean is, you might like a local restaurant but if others don't feel the same way, it won't matter how many times you dine there because they're not going to make it. Same thing with Twilight Time. So, if they put out great releases like Bye Bye Birdie that get me to blink at the price, I'll buy them. If not, I won't.

Bingo. Quite literally, even $12.99 releases (like To Catch a Thief) got the "I'll wait for it to hit $5.99" comment, on a certain board that shall remain nameless. If blu-rays are collectible toy-like objects to you, then I can understand that mentality. If you're a fan of the movie however, I can't see how what is effectively the cost of two movie tickets for a nicely presented blu-ray is going to break the bank. Obviously, we can't decide how people spend their money, but surely this "It's too expensive" spiel on virtually every page of every Twilight Time thread is getting tedious, no?

Sophistry. You contrast blu-rays purchasers of toy-like collectibles with true fans of the film. C'mon ... this is the Blu-Ray sub-forum for goodness sake and this is just stuff. Stuff we truly enjoy, yes, but just stuff.

 

[Ruz-El]

The laser disc/TT cost thing isn't a proper comparison. It would be a case of where the average price of a laser disc was $40, the deluxe laser boxsets are $80-$100 and a bare bones TT version of the laser disc would be $80. Seeing how LD never really took off, I really doubt if a company could get away charging those kind of prices in that market.

Average price of a bluray is $20-$30 new, catalogue titles are cheaper. A deluxe/prime version by a company like Criterion is $30-$40 dependent on sales. Twilight time is in the Criterion range and typically bare bones and of a limited quantity. For many it makes it a bad deal since their is no added value. An exceptional transfer is to be expected. It doesn't matter what people have paid for in the past for the dumb dead formats that proceeded bluray,

It's a dumb release strategy that puts consumers over a barrel instead of offering them choice. My typical choice is not to buy since adding freight to Canada (if they even ship to Canada) makes them insanely high priced and I'm not a big enough fan of any of the titles to bite. If there was an all time fave title I'd maybe consider it, but then I missed out on "Fright Night" (a title that was deemed unmarketable and niche despite being popular enough to spend 30 Million on a remake released to theatres and home video, this is absolutely the first time I've ever seen such a thing happen in the hobby) due to the limited run. I still find it hard to imaging that they wouldn't be selling a lot more of these titles if it wasn't for price, lack of advertising and restrictions.

I'm not a huge fan of the Warner Archives either, mostly due to cost, but at least you can purchase the titles. This limited run nonsense on top of the jacked up price is ridiculous.

Unless your favourite film comes out, then what can you do? I'm surprised "Christine" is coming out this way. Both John Carpenter and Stephen King are marketable names, Shout or someone couldn't get this disc into stores if the studio couldn't afford it? I mean, Shout is putting out stuff only hard core genre fans have heard about and their on the shelves, what the hell is wrong with the bigger studios? "Christine" might be my first bite of the TT apple. I would of bought "The Fury" in a hot minute, but it's way too expensive for a blind buy so it's most likely going to be a no sale.

 

[Robin9]

Sophistry. You contrast blu-rays purchasers of toy-like collectibles with true fans of the film. C'mon ... this is Blu-Ray sub-forum for goodness sake and this is just stuff. Stuff we truly enjoy, yes, but just stuff.

Persianimmortal's point wasn't sophistry at all. It was a perfectly valid and pertinent observation. Let me repeat it. Someone who really loves the movie in question may well be willing to pay more than normal for a high quality Blu-ray disc.

Twilight time is in the Criterion range and typically bare bones and of a limited quantity. For many it makes it a bad deal since their is no added value. An exceptional transfer is to be expected. It doesn't matter what people have paid for in the past for the dumb dead formats that proceeded bluray,
 
It's a dumb release strategy that puts consumers over a barrel instead of offering them choice.

A dumb release strategy is one that fails: fails to earn a return on money invested and fails to enable the company to continue trading. A clever release strategy is one that enables a company to continue trading in a depressed and difficult market. The fact that Twilight Time's strategy does not suit you does not make it dumb. Quite evidently you still have not come to terms with the simple fact that Twilight Time have crunched the numbers and have concluded that selling to a minority market and antagonising a few people is their safest policy.
As for "an exceptional transfer is to be expected" I can only suggest you read the threads about the Hitchcock and Marilyn Monroe box-sets. And then read about several Universal BDS.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Does anyone seriously believe that if TT lowered their prices, most of their titles would somehow see any substantial increase in sales? Certainly not enough to offset the reduced price. These are niche movies, and you don't need to be a business expert to see that a movie like Swamp Water, to take an example, is not going to sell heavily, whether at $5 or $30.
And I'm not particularly sure how my point was "sophistry". We pay much more for a single meal at a restaurant, or a couple of movie tickets, yet when it comes to a nicely presented classic movie on BD, all of a sudden shelling out $30 becomes a lot like getting blood out of a stone? If it's all "stuff" to you, then weigh up how much enjoyment you get out of a single meal, or a single viewing of a film in a theater, against owning a BD of a classic movie that you can rewatch many times.
Sure, I'd love to see these movies selling on blu-ray for a buck each. But as I noted, even when beautifully presented classics are selling around $15-12, people will baulk and hold out for a lower price. At some point, some semblance of sanity has to enter our considerations as to the true value of certain things, not just how wonderful it is for us to get a "good deal".
In any case, the bottom line is that this is the release strategy Twilight Time has chosen, that works for them, and results in classic movies on BD that would otherwise be much less likely to see a release on the format. I have six TT movies so far that I thoroughly enjoy, and consider them well worth the money spent.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Russell G /t/325955/twilight-time-announces-blu-ray-releases-march-april-2013/30#post_4015068
The laser disc/TT cost thing isn't a proper comparison. It would be a case of where the average price of a laser disc was $40, the deluxe laser boxsets are $80-$100 and a bare bones TT version of the laser disc would be $80. Seeing how LD never really took off, I really doubt if a company could get away charging those kind of prices in that market.

Average price of a bluray is $20-$30 new, catalogue titles are cheaper. A deluxe/prime version by a company like Criterion is $30-$40 dependent on sales. Twilight time is in the Criterion range and typically bare bones and of a limited quantity. For many it makes it a bad deal since their is no added value. An exceptional transfer is to be expected. It doesn't matter what people have paid for in the past for the dumb dead formats that proceeded bluray,

It's a dumb release strategy that puts consumers over a barrel instead of offering them choice. My typical choice is not to buy since adding freight to Canada (if they even ship to Canada) makes them insanely high priced and I'm not a big enough fan of any of the titles to bite. If there was an all time fave title I'd maybe consider it, but then I missed out on "Fright Night" (a title that was deemed unmarketable and niche despite being popular enough to spend 30 Million on a remake released to theatres and home video, this is absolutely the first time I've ever seen such a thing happen in the hobby) due to the limited run. I still find it hard to imaging that they wouldn't be selling a lot more of these titles if it wasn't for price, lack of advertising and restrictions.

I'm not a huge fan of the Warner Archives either, mostly due to cost, but at least you can purchase the titles. This limited run nonsense on top of the jacked up price is ridiculous.

Unless your favourite film comes out, then what can you do? I'm surprised "Christine" is coming out this way. Both John Carpenter and Stephen King are marketable names, Shout or someone couldn't get this disc into stores if the studio couldn't afford it? I mean, Shout is putting out stuff only hard core genre fans have heard about and their on the shelves, what the hell is wrong with the bigger studios? "Christine" might be my first bite of the TT apple. I would of bought "The Fury" in a hot minute, but it's way too expensive for a blind buy so it's most likely going to be a no sale.

Just because you disagree with their business model, it doesn't mean their marketing strategy isn't the right one for them. I would think they have marketing data that would support their current strategy while any of us can express how wrong they might be with their business model, but we have little marketing data to back up our stated opinion.







Crawdaddy

 

[ShowsOn]

Forget about extras, the bigger change here is that they will be releasing two films per month!

 

[rsmithjr]

Every new title from TT elicits this discussion of their business model with complaints about the prices and count limitations.
The studios have clearly concluded that they cannot market these catalog titles on Blu-ray using their normal retail model. They have enough evidence from the last six years to have a very accurate idea of what will be profitable or not. Similarly, TT has enough experience with their model--including their prices--to know that they can be profitable.
Many of the titles we have seen from Sony were actually all ready to go as standard retail releases until they looked at the results from many other titles. This includes the excellent quality and special features that we are seeing on titles like Lost Horizon. Sony switched to TT when they realized what the market realities were. Other studios are doing the same thing.
So, for customers, the stark choice is as follows:
EITHER:
1. We have the titles available to us through TT (or Warner Archive or something similar) at high prices and with their restrictions.
OR
2. We don't have the titles available at all.
I am guessing that we will see these models proliferate in the next two years as the studios move to models like TT for the rest of their catalogs.
It is an individual choice to buy or not to buy. If you don't think a title is worth the price, don't buy it.
If enough people don't buy these titles, then TT will disappear as well and the titles will never be available on Blu-ray.
The customer always gets what he is willing to actually pay for, which is often different that what he says he wants.

 

[David_B_K]

Every new title from TT elicits this discussion of their business model with complaints about the prices and count limitations.
---SNIP---
Other studios are doing the same thing.
So, for customers, the stark choice is as follows:
EITHER:
1. We have the titles available to us through TT (or Warner Archive or something similar) at high prices and with their restrictions.
OR
2. We don't have the titles available at all.

Yes, it is humorous that this debate rages every time TT announces new releases. I personally look at their program (and Warner Archive) as a good thing. It gives collectors a chance to get a title they really, really want, even though it may not sell well to other buyers. Am I the only one who reads threads with titles like "when is 'Blah Blah' coming out?", and thinking "wow, you actually want to see that POS again, let alone buy a Blu-ray of it?" Movies that some of us love are often poison to other collectors. I have only bought 3 Blu-rays and one DVD thus far from TT (much more from Warner Archive during sales); and those were of titles I really wanted. I always eagerly await news of their new releases to see if one of my favorites is on the list. If it is a film I have only a casual interest in, I just don't buy it from TT. I would have liked to have seen the transfer of The Egyptian, but I consider it to be a dull and plodding film that would not have repeat value; so I passed on it. However, I am glad that its fans got a chance to get a stunning copy of one of their favorites.
I don't see how anybody can complain about getting a chance to get a Blu-ray they really want as opposed to having no chance at all. As to those who complain about shipping to other countries, I can only say that TT was apparently not set up with international shipping in mind. If shipping was not so cheap from Amazon.UK, I doubt I'd have imported most of the stuff I've ordered from them. It would be great if more companies had a deal like Amazon's; but few do. I have to import some items from the UK at the company where I work, and the shipping charges are brutal.

 

[rich_d]

And I'm not particularly sure how my point was "sophistry". We pay much more for a single meal at a restaurant, or a couple of movie tickets, yet when it comes to a nicely presented classic movie on BD, all of a sudden shelling out $30 becomes a lot like getting blood out of a stone? If it's all "stuff" to you, then weigh up how much enjoyment you get out of a single meal, or a single viewing of a film in a theater, against owning a BD of a classic movie that you can rewatch many times.

Stop with the rationalizations ... this ... 'well you pay good money for a nice meal that's freakin' gone like the wind so how hard a concept is it to spend half of that and get a film you could watch and rewatch for a lot more hours of enjoyment than that meal ever gave you' stuff. If you're going there, why not bring up all the money spent on home video and how that money could have been spent helping your children afford their first home ... or help starving children in poverty, et cetera? Because that's not the point either.
However, if your point is that - while you know that opinions differ - people constantly bringing up that boutique prices are high is just a reaffirming of the obvious and thus become tiresome .... then just say that. I get that and can appreciate the point. It would be like going to a forum about luxury watches and bringing up that your Timex keeps just as good time. Yeah, it's true but tiresome if constantly repeated.

 

[Alan Tully]

This price thing will run & run. They are expensive (about just over £23 to the UK) which puts me off any casual purchase, but I do get a lot of other titles quite cheap, the Jaws Blu for £7, the big Alien box for £13, The Bourne Trilogy for £9, so the odd splash-out is OK if it's a must have title, & it's probably only one or two of those a year.

 

[RobHam]

Every new title from TT elicits this discussion of their business model with complaints about the prices and count limitations.
The studios have clearly concluded that they cannot market these catalog titles on Blu-ray using their normal retail model. They have enough evidence from the last six years to have a very accurate idea of what will be profitable or not. Similarly, TT has enough experience with their model--including their prices--to know that they can be profitable.
Many of the titles we have seen from Sony were actually all ready to go as standard retail releases until they looked at the results from many other titles. This includes the excellent quality and special features that we are seeing on titles like Lost Horizon. Sony switched to TT when they realized what the market realities were. Other studios are doing the same thing.
So, for customers, the stark choice is as follows:
EITHER:
1. We have the titles available to us through TT (or Warner Archive or something similar) at high prices and with their restrictions.
OR
2. We don't have the titles available at all.
I am guessing that we will see these models proliferate in the next two years as the studios move to models like TT for the rest of their catalogs.
It is an individual choice to buy or not to buy. If you don't think a title is worth the price, don't buy it.
If enough people don't buy these titles, then TT will disappear as well and the titles will never be available on Blu-ray.
The customer always gets what he is willing to actually pay for, which is often different that what he says he wants.

I think above sums it up quite nicely.
I keep an eye on what Twilight Time, Blue Underground and Olive are putting out, chose specific items that I actually want and am willing to pay for, then leave it for a few days before making a final decision on want vs price.
Like Robert Smith above, I think as individual consumers we have to decide whether to pay above norm prices for non-mass market niche Blu Rays or never see them released in this format..

 

[Robin9]

Am I the only one who reads threads with titles like "when is 'Blah Blah' coming out?", and thinking "wow, you actually want to see that POS again, let alone buy a Blu-ray of it?"

No; you are not the only person who responds like that!

As to those who complain about shipping to other countries, I can only say that TT was apparently not set up with international shipping in mind.

Screen Archives ship overseas.

 

[MichaelEl]

It is an individual choice to buy or not to buy. If you don't think a title is worth the price, don't buy it.
If enough people don't buy these titles, then TT will disappear as well and the titles will never be available on Blu-ray.

I didn't buy into laserdisc because of the prices, and laserdisc disappeared. All of the laserdisc titles I wanted then emerged in a better format at a lower price. No doubt the same will happen with the titles TT is trying to sell at inflated prices.

 

[rsmithjr]

I didn't buy into laserdisc because of the prices, and laserdisc disappeared. All of the laserdisc titles I wanted then emerged in a better format at a lower price. No doubt the same will happen with the titles TT is trying to sell at inflated prices.

Wrong conclusion from the history.
LD was a niche product that had a huge mindshare of people supporting it even while the actual sales were not that spectacular.
The studios and CE companies realized that a similar product (a laser-based disk) albeit with a smaller footprint, much cheaper manufacturing costs, etc., could be a big hit.
Companies looked at what LD's were doing (multiple soundtracks, special features, menus, commentary tracks, widescreen, stereo) and incorporated everything into a new format, eventually named DVD. Later, the same features (on steroids) were included in a higher-quality version called Blu-ray.
LD was the prototype, DVD was the real product, Blu-ray was the next generation.
Those who did not support LD were hardly helping bring about DVD, they were simply allowing the LD supporters to do the heavy lifting of laying the foundation for DVD and Blu-ray.
If the TT and Warner Archive models fail, we will not see a new packaged media format or model replacing them, packaged media will just wither away, at least for catalog.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Yeah, it's true but tiresome if constantly repeated.

As tiresome as the people who constantly complain about how Twilight Time is so expensive on every page of every Twilight Time thread perhaps?