"Tweaks" forum in Hardware section issue (1 Viewer)

[Kimmo Jaskari]

I'm looking for a little clarification on the rules for the new Tweaks forum in the Hardware section.

The rules as stated on the forum page pretty much sounds to me like "Anything people post here may not be disagreed with".

Personally I don't care that much about the whole area, to be frank, except that I hate the idea of newbies going there, reading everything and taking it as gospel, when so much of it is pure supposition, personal opinion or completely unproven theoretically.

I'm not saying "No tweaks work", but I do have serious reservations about much that has been posted there already. I think it should be emphasized somewhere - like in a sticky thread perhaps - that tweaks are a hotly contested area of hifi/home theater and that people need to try to think critically and not accept everything as fact just because someone says so.

 

[RicP]

I hate the idea of newbies going there, reading everything and taking it as gospel

Why? Do you feel that it's your job to save them? Or is that you think that they have no minds of their own and are easily led astray like lemmings?
See, I look at it like everyone there is an intelligent Human being and is perfectly capable of making up their own minds about something. The reason that the disclaimer is there is to stop the endless flame wars that result when certain individuals enter a tweak discussion with the sole purpose of "debunking it", which serves absolutely no purpose.
If you don't agree with the tweaks discussed, that's great, don't go to that area anymore.

 

[Parker Clack]

Kimmo:

THE majority of the time what the real problem boils down to is someone jumping into a thread offering an opinion that was not asked of them. The worst of these is in the tweaks and cables area. They are the MOST debated (other than the DTS vs DD) areas of Home Theater and highly are subjective and opinionated. But when someone starts a thread asking which of a particular brand tweak/cable he/she should buy they have already done the research on whether to get the tweak/cable and then someone always has to come into the thread and tell them not to buy it in the first place because it won't work. That their is no scientific reason for this to work and so on. The point is who cares? Did they ask for this information? NO! So why offer it? It only insites another war of the opinions.

Hence the policy in the tweaks and cables areas. If someone asks what brand to buy the posts that offer nothing more than an opinion on whether to buy it in the first place or not will be deleted. If they ask for everyone's opionion on the tweak or the cable then that is a different story. They asked for the information.

Parker

 

[Kimmo Jaskari]

The problem IMHO is that so few people even stop to question many tweaks. They just read some pseudoscientific babble and accept that. Thus, many newbies (and for that matter many more experienced people) just don't stop to question it. Thus, they post questions about what to buy rather than asking if they should bother in the first place.

I don't feel like I'm on a holy mission to save people from their own folly, but I do feel that we need more people applying a little critical thought on most issues - tweaks especially so.

For instance, there was one gentleman earnestly claiming that radio shack cables were inferior to boutique cables because the copper wasn't as pure. At that point there are two choices for someone reading the thread who knows that is pure bull - either grit his teeth and let it stand, knowing many will read it and accept the statement and propagate that disinformation despite it being nonsensical, or try to debate the issue.

The way I read the rules, that debate can't take place as it is. Or am I wrong?

 

[Mike Knapp]

Kimmo,
You may notice that I preface all of my tweak posts with a disclaimer. I think the disclaimer at the top of that section is just to make it easier for people to post there without having to add their own disclaimer.
Discrediting tweaks is an old pastime of the science oriented crowd here. It got so bad that no advice was given to queries on cables for fear the skeptics would charge in waving their oscilloscopes high and shouting their "DOUBLE BLIND TEST" battle cry.
The tweaks area was set up as a refuge from the constant onslaught from the skeptics. I for one am thankful for it.
There is no need for the science camp to fret. Surely all that will happen is that someoneone wanting information on tweaks will try the things suggested, find out they dont work and then become one of the naysayers!
Happy listening.
Mike

 

[Parker Clack]

Kimmo:

You are missing my point. If someone just posts an abritary post that Radio Shack cables are crap compared to X cables then it is up for debate. If on the other hand someone posts a question regarding which Radio Shack cable to buy this is not an open invitation to come in a tell that person not to buy them at all. This is what I am trying to get away from. If someone asks which tweak is better x or y then the answers should be x or y not do not do this. If on the other hand they ask should I use then tweak then pros and cons would be expected.

The problem is giving advise when none is asked. That is what I am trying to get away from.

Parker

 

[Kimmo Jaskari]

Well, I can see your point, but I still feel I have a valid one too. When asking is x or y better, a valid answer may well be "neither".
Ah well, I'm staying out of the area or else there is no way I can keep from challenging some of the opinions people have. I'm still reading essentially a carte blanche to post any opinion one may have over there and a veto for anyone to actually gainsay it.
I happen to think I have a reasonable approach to tweaks; that unless there is at least a coherent theoretical base for some tweak to stand on, chances are it's not true. When people post sometimes quite outrageous claims and base it solely on "Well, I think so" it really gets hard to stomach sometimes.
Mike: people are irrational dumb beasts. Yes, me too. We can convince ourselves about anything if we try enough. That's all the "science camp" recognizes and tries to deal with by demanding at least some corroborating data beyond subjective listening. I don't think that is a bad thing, rather the opposite... but then again, that's just me.
For the sake of argument, would it be ok to post a thread in there that directly starts out questioning the value of most tweaks? I mean, does the freedom to post and not have it debated run both ways, or is the forum there to promote tweaks and discourage debate on the topic?

 

[RicP]

people are irrational dumb beasts. Yes, me too. We can convince ourselves about anything if we try enough. That's all the "science camp" recognizes and tries to deal with by demanding at least some corroborating data beyond subjective listeni

So? Everyone is an irrational dumb beast except those in the "science camp" right? After all, you said, they're the ones that recognize that people are irrational and dumb.
It's that kind of "holier than thou" attitude that starts the flamewars in the tweaks area to begin with. If you feel tht you lack the self-control to avoid falling into that, then I guess the best answer would be to avoid the area as you suggested.

 

[Mike Knapp]

For the sake of argument, would it be ok to post a thread in there that directly starts out questioning the value of most tweaks?

I dont run this place but I dont see why that type of post would not be allowed.

I certainly wouldnt jump into that thread and try to convince everyone that a tweak that had been questioned by skeptics actually worked regardless of what was being reported. That would violate the spirit of the rule we are discussing.

Mike

 

[DaleR]

put me somewhere between the complete newbie and hoary old sage. i think tweaks are fun. most are relatively inexpensive and cost little to try. if they don't work, so what? if they do, or i think they do, hey great. isn't that what a hobby is supposed to be about? fun? i for one have not seen any potentially system damaging tweaks written up here. nor have i seen any outrageous claims made. i for one would love to see more tweaks listed that i could try or not as i see fit. i find any time spent in the improvement or attempted improvement of my home entertainment system time well spent.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Ahhh, but some tweaks that appear "harmless" on the surface may not be when you apply a little bit o' scientific thinking.

(My personal fave is the Auric Illuminator stuff you put on a DVD or CD. Based on the physics that are involved with how a CD/DVD is read, it's of dubious value to begin with, and then when you consider that if there's any appreciable heating of the disc by the laser, and that over time, enough of the stuff could evaporate from enough CD/DVDs to actually coat the lense of the lasers, might make one think twice about trying the stuff. Just an example...)

So, I think you should be able to post info both ways in terms of whether a tweak is *likely* to be of real value or not.

 

[RicP]

heating of the disc by the laser, and that over time, enough of the stuff could evaporate from enough CD/DVDs to actually coat the lense of the lasers.

Sorry Kevin, but that's actually funnier than what Auric actually claims Illuminator can do. CD lasers giving off heat?

 

[Mark Austin]

...to be frank, except that I hate the idea of newbies going there, reading everything and taking it as gospel, when so much of it is pure supposition, personal opinion or completely unproven theoretically.

This is rich!
Through reading several internet boards I have become thoroughly convinced that scientist types have some inherent gene that makes them overly concerned for those of us that they feel aren't quite as smart as they think they themsleves are. :rolleyes

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Ric- Think for a second: how does LASIK work?

A laser hot enough to cut human tissue is used to reshape the cornea. A laser in a DVD/CD player is no different. Just lower power. There is still heat involved...

 

[RicP]

A laser in a DVD/CD player is no different

Uh....yes it is. How does a laser in a laser pointer work? Can you burn yourself if you point it at your skin? No you can't. I could point a laser pointer at a piece of paper for 90 hours straight, it wouldn't even raise the temp 1 degree. That's the same laser that's used in optical reading technology. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

^pointer =>
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=45196