This just in from Denon regarding the chroma bug... (1 Viewer)

[Alex Prosak]

I just got this from the AVS Forum:

The rumours have been around recently that we have corrected the 'Chroam Bug' in the DVD-9000 and DVD-3800, and I'm hear to say officially that "IT IS TRUE!". Actually our engineers along with ESS corrected the Bug maybe over a month ago, in fact I am in possession of a Chroma Free 9000 right now. The 'fix' was to be implemented in September when ESS would have full production chips available. This was good news indeed.

But late last week, I was informed from Japan of even better news. Instead of a chip change, they have delivered us a FIRMWARE fix!! The delay in this annoucement was getting the discs and confirming the fix. I have personally corrected 2 3800s and 1 9000 with spectacular results!

So what's next? We are in the process of making discs at this moment to get to our reps and dealers. Unfortunately we are not going to post the fix on the web at this time, the software is not secure, and some folks may be inclined to alter the software, which I don't understand, and cause major problems to the players. Also I am writing the procedure to do the fix.

If you want the firmware ASAP, please PM me with your request, which model you own (software is model specific), model serial number, and your e-mail address. Once I have completed the procedure, I will mail you the firmware and documentation.

Obviously we will have a running production change on new units, when I receive serial numbers I will post, so those waiting to purchase will know they are getting a corrected player. Also since our dealers will have the firmware, they will be able to correct any units in their inventory at the store level.

Regarding DVD-A1, I wouldn't see why the firmware wouldn't work, unless it is region coded. Check with your dealer.

Regards,


__________________
Jeff Talmadge
Product Manager
DENON Electronics (USA), Inc.

 

[Brian Kleinke]

Hmm what about the DVD-2800s any word on those? Or has Denon given up on those of us with 2800's. I got so annoyed at it, I now use my 2800 to play movies on my Sony KV80 20" which doesn't care about progressive signals or component inputs. (Something sick about a $800 MSRP player running a $400 MSRP TV eh?)

Brian

 

[Chip E]

This is Most Excellent news !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KeithH]

Alex,
That is great news. The '3800 suddenly is back on the my list for a potential DVD-Audio player upgrade. Now if we could only get more titles. I think Warner's marketing department needs a firmware upgrade. They have a bug of some sort.
Chip,
Time to replace that one 9000 with the other, eh?

 

[Craig W]

Now I wonder if they have actually fixed it in the firmware or if they are using more smoke and mirrors to mask it. I would be tempted to wait for the next generation from Denon before proclaiming it fixed. IF the root cause was hard coded in the ESS chip no amount of firmware will actually fix it.

Being a firmware engineer, I am just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Craig can you ellaborate on this?
I'm not an engineer.

 

[KeithH]

Craig, fair point. However, I would like to think that if Denon is issuing a firmware upgrade, then they have good reason for doing so. I feel Denon has dropped the ball with its progressive-scan players (continual chroma bug), but they would create a lot of angst if they were to release a "fix" that in reality did nothing. Hopefully they know what they are doing. Let's see.

 

[Mark Tranchant]

in fact I am in possession of a Chroma Free 9000 right now.

They've "fixed" it by eliminating chroma data, leaving just luminance data. What do you want, perfect black and white or flawed colour?

 

[Chip E]

Quote:
"Chip,
Time to replace that one 9000 with the other, eh?"
Keith,
actually, at the moment i'm a little tapped out. I'd love to just go buy the Denon 9K and retire my Sony 9K but, i'll wait a while...wait for the price to come down some. If my Sony 9K wasn't doing everything i want and need, it'd be different. It really is great news though! I wish i could find the thread over at AVS but, i'm having a little trouble searching for it?
Alex, can you provide a link? or is that not permitted? Thanks.

 

[Michael Lee]

Chip-
Th thread can be found right here. I think this is fabulous news and shows that Denon really is committed to their product quality. They didn't wait for the next model to fix things...they sought to fix a current flawed product. I am optimistic in their fixing the chroma upsampling error completely.

 

[KeithH]

Chip,
I understand your point. The '9000 ain't cheap. We'll see if the price drops before a replacement is on the way. Have you considered the '3800?
Michael said:

I am optimistic in their fixing the chroma upsampling error completely.

I hope you are right. I'll be watching this one.

 

[Chip E]

Keith,
Yea, the 3800 is more my speed at the moment... it's on my short list (do i have a short list? lol...) I may just hold out for the Denon 9K.
Also, my buddy Jimmy at Tweeter Delaware just moved back to the Deptford,NJ store as assist. manager. I was at the Kirkwood HyWy store this past Sunday. He informed me that the Proceed line has been dropped by Tweeter (only available in north Jersey) and they are going to sell Krell seperates starting real soon. I'm thinking the new "Showcase processor and amp combo. I didn't ask. Anyway, what's he say too me? "Ah man, you want to upgrade? Just bring your 5803 in and i'll hook you up brotha" *sigh* Lol...

"My name is Chip and i'm an audio-video addict. Hi Chip!
Keep com'n back"

 

[Alex Prosak]

Thanks for posting the link Michael.

I had a feeling this news would make a lot of people very happy.

 

[Han]

So what was that Shrink/Zoom feature on these two models supposed to be about anyway? I kinda lost interest in the 3800 when it first came out with the Chroma Upsampling error.
(I know, I posted this same question in that other thread):b

 

[KeithH]

Chip, yeah, I never saw Proceed stuff at Tweeter. Krell at Tweeter? Are you saying that only stores in North Jersey had Proceed gear and will carry Krell gear? How far north? My brother lives all the way up near the Hudson and has no Tweeter stores in his area. If he ever wanted Krell, there are other dealers (e.g., Harvey Electronics).
Deptford isn't far, so at least you still have your Tweeter connection. It's just you will have to pay sales tax in Jersey. Gotta love Delaware!
*Fast forward two months. Chip lugs the '5803 into his car. He then takes a three-hour nap since that '5803 is so dang heavy (), then points his car up the road to Tweeter to score some Krell gear. Then he is up until 5 a.m. going through every CD, SACD, DVD-Audio disc, and DVD he owns. He is stunned by the sound quality. It's a revelation! He gets a half-hour of sleep, then bleary-eyed, is back at it again.*

 

[Dzung Pham]

Actually, the Denon is not the first dvd player to resolve its chroma bug using a firmware update. The Philips Q50 also was able to remove its chroma bug by upgrading the firmware. See the section on the Q50 at
Link Removed
It appears that certain MPEG decoders are capable of this but most are not. If it was just smoke and mirrors, Denon would have done this with their 2800 as well, but they were not able to.

 

[Alex Prosak]

Hmm what about the DVD-2800s any word on those? Or has Denon given up on those of us with 2800's. I got so annoyed at it, I now use my 2800 to play movies on my Sony KV80 20" which doesn't care about progressive signals or component inputs. (Something sick about a $800 MSRP player running a $400 MSRP TV eh?)

Brian, I asked Jeff about the 2800 and this is his response:

"The ESS chipset in 2800 was worked over thoroughly before release, with no more correction possible, sorry to say. This also holds same for 2800MkII which uses the same front end as the 2800."

Sorry for the bad news.

 

[Craig W]

I will elaborate a little more. They said that they were waiting for a IC (integrated circuit) solution from ESS.

I believe that the root cause of the problem is in the ESS MPEG decoding if this is the route they want to go with long term. I believe the firmware fix is just a short term solution to appease the customers they have royally PO'd. The MPEG decoder is probably a hard wired IC with some programable parameters. If the chip is hard wired and it displays the chroma bug under it normal operating parameters, then the decoder is infected with the chroma bug.

I believe firmware that Denon is using is just readjusting some parameters on the ESS decoding to mask it. If it works fine, but I still believe that this will not be their long term fix. ESS will probably use corrected design for fabrication when ready.

Denon I am sure is under pressure since the 3800 and 9000 where supposed to be the cream of the crop on the market.