Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread(Warning: Spoilers!)

TravisR

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This is why I would hate to be JJ Abrams trying to write a completely satisfying conclusion to this trilogy (saga).
In this age of social media whining, there will be no ending that doesn't cause a segment of the fanbase to lose their minds and proclaim the movie to be the worst moment in the history of mankind.
 

Tino

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I’ve said it before. No matter what JJ and company do, it’s a lose/lose situation.

Half will love it
Half will hate it

And each side will think the other is insane for their opinion.

Oh......

And Kylo will not be redeemed. :D
 

BobO'Link

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This is why I would hate to be JJ Abrams trying to write a completely satisfying conclusion to this trilogy (saga).
Have you not payed attention to what he writes? I don't think he would know a "completely satisfying conclusion" if it came up and slapped him on the face.
 

JimmyO

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Yeah but you never saw Thise children killed. It was off screen. And other than a few dopey commanders and a rebel officer that’s it.

Imo it’s more hardcore and less forgiving having Kylo kill his dad Han Solo on screen.
I've had a bit of a think about what you've said here Tino. And I have to say, I think in an indirect way you've misproven your own point.

I ask myself "why" was the murder of the children not shown? The answer simply is - murder of children is considered probably the most awful thing, ever. Murdering a man in the twilight of his years, even if he's a relative, is still horrible, but IMHO not as awful.

So the fact that Lucas didn't show Anakin killing the children was simply because it would be too much - far too terrible. Not showing it doesn't change that it happened, and yet Vader was redeemed in spite of this.

I have no idea if Kylo Ren can walk such a path, but I think the Vader precedence shows it's entirely possible.
 

Jake Lipson

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I ask myself "why" was the murder of the children not shown? The answer simply is - murder of children is considered probably the most awful thing, ever. Murdering a man in the twilight of his years, even if he's a relative, is still horrible, but IMHO not as awful.
The murder of the children is especially hard to reconcile with the fact that, not even ten minutes earlier, Anakin was telling Mace Windu that killing Palpatine is "not the Jedi way." I get that there might have been a time cut in there, but still. That whole section where he turns so completely on a dime is really challenging not only because of the content, but because I don't think it was well-executed on a character level.

I think Lucas didn't show it because he didn't need to; it was shocking enough as it is. Plus, kids were going to be admitted to see the movie. Even though he went PG-13, there was still a limit to what he could do without pushing it into more adult territory. I think showing a scene of Anakin murdering children in graphic detail likely would have made it R, which obviously he wouldn't have wanted.

The question for me is whether or not Kylo Ren is even interested in being redeemed. I don't think he would say he is. Granted, Vader wasn't quite, either, but when Luke spoke with him about it, he just kept citing that Luke doesn't know the power of the Dark Side. That Kylo is now in charge, and could have called off the First Order to spare the assault on the Resistance but chose not to do so, feels significant to me. Vader was never in a position to do something like that, because overthrowing the Emperor took his life.
 
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JimmyO

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The question for me is whether or not Kylo Ren is even interested in being redeemed. I don't think he would say he is. Granted, Vader wasn't quite, either, but when Luke spoke with him about it, he just kept citing that Luke doesn't know the power of the Dark Side. That Kylo is now in charge, and could have called off the First Order to spare the assault on the Resistance but chose not to do so, feels significant to me. Vader was never in a position to do something like that, because overthrowing the Emperor took his life.
I think Vader gave us a clue,somewhat. The way Vader said "It's too late for me, son" had a note of hope in it. Even though he denied it, it was the first time Vader spoke in the voice of a father. It was, for Vader, a very gently delivered line. It felt emotional, almost as though the tone of the line completely worked against what he was saying. As though there was good in him after all.

The conflict in Kylo Ren seems along these lines to me. His being torn apart, the light calling to him. I am unsure if we're meant to believe he resolved that by killing Solo and Snoke.

I have a feeling there's going to be a redemption. After all, it's J.J. in charge of Ep. 9, and as we all know, J.J. loves repeating stories. Loves it a lot.

My guess is that he dies in Rey's arms.
 

Bryan^H

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I think Vader gave us a clue,somewhat. The way Vader said "It's too late for me, son" had a note of hope in it. Even though he denied it, it was the first time Vader spoke in the voice of a father. It was, for Vader, a very gently delivered line. It felt emotional, almost as though the tone of the line completely worked against what he was saying. As though there was good in him after all.

The conflict in Kylo Ren seems along these lines to me. His being torn apart, the light calling to him. I am unsure if we're meant to believe he resolved that by killing Solo and Snoke.

I have a feeling there's going to be a redemption. After all, it's J.J. in charge of Ep. 9, and as we all know, J.J. loves repeating stories. Loves it a lot.

My guess is that he dies in Rey's arms.
Bingo!
 

TravisR

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I think Lucas didn't show it because he didn't need to; it was shocking enough as it is.
Yeah, showing a bunch of kids getting chopped up would have just been tasteless. Having the shot of Vader igniting his saber as the kid is looking at him is powerful and it allows your imagination to fill in the awful blanks.
 

Tino

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I’m pretty sure showing a child killed onscreen is an automatic “R” rating so Lucas would never have shown it.

Can anyone give an example of a child killed graphically on screen that is less than an R?

I can’t think of one.
 
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Bryan^H

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My question is why did Lucas even go there?
Wasn't it evil enough that Vader wiped out the Jedi Temple, and betrayed them with order 66?

I know there were younglings in the temple, and it would have been in the back of our minds if it didn't show the "Master Anakin, what do we do?" scene. I just thought it was one scene too many.
Pretty savage.

But I did get a warm feeling when Yoda threw his light saber in the heart of a clone trooper, jumped on his chest, and yanked it out;)
 

Brett_B

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I have a feeling there's going to be a redemption. After all, it's J.J. in charge of Ep. 9, and as we all know, J.J. loves repeating stories. Loves it a lot.
This is why I don't want J.J. to do the final episode. Not because he loves repeating stories, rather he is now faced with a difficult task to writing the conclusion of the Skywalker saga. I really wish that Rian Johnson would write and direct Episode IX to see where he would take the story after what he did with The Last Jedi.
 

Jake Lipson

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I really wish that Rian Johnson would write and direct Episode IX to see where he would take the story after what he did with The Last Jedi.
If you believe the trades, Rian Johnson was asked, but declined, citing exhaustion. He'll have a break before gearing up for his own trilogy. I understand the hesitancy around Abrams from some fans, but I would think that the challenge might be exactly what appeals to him about it. I also think he knows how important this is and will hold himself to a high standard. So, I'm optimistic. And if it wasn't going to be Rian, J.J. is absolutely the best choice. Much better than having someone totally new come in for the ending.
 

Bryan^H

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This is why I don't want J.J. to do the final episode. Not because he loves repeating stories, rather he is now faced with a difficult task to writing the conclusion of the Skywalker saga. I really wish that Rian Johnson would write and direct Episode IX to see where he would take the story after what he did with The Last Jedi.
Well the writers sort of painted themselves in a corner. Regardless of who it is, it is still a difficult spot to work from.

Either Kylo Ren is redeemed, and it makes for a happy ending, or he isn't and his character will have very little depth. Just another bad guy that loses a war(of course the First Order will lose, that is a given) and dies,or lives. But in order for closure to this trilogy, I think his death may be inevitable.
 

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