Star Wars Episode VIII "The Last Jedi" Coming December 15, 2017 (1 Viewer)

[Adam Lenhardt]

Disagree. I thought Rogue One was a mess for its first two acts and thankfully was saved by a spectacular third act.

I would rank it third among the new SW films ahead of Solo being the weakest.

I would rank them:

1. The Last Jedi
2. The Force Awakens
3. Solo
4. Rogue One

Even while I recognize its flaws, I love the hell out of The Last Jedi. And it's the only post-Lucas Star Wars movie so far that takes some really big swings.

The Force Awakens was too derivative for my tastes, and it has some structural issues early on. But there's no question that it was a cultural phenomenon. It gave us another classic Han Solo performance from Harrison Ford. A fun trio of new protagonists as well as an interesting, conflicted antagonist. And -- despite a bit of hand waving to get us there -- one hell of a cliffhanger.

Solo is a bit hobbled by the fact that it's built around an actor other than Harrison Ford playing Han Solo. If Harrison Ford could have been copied circa American Graffiti and brought to 2016 to film this movie, it'd be pretty beloved, I think. The script takes large chunks from his Expanded Universe backstory and plants it firmly in the new post-TFA canon, so it feels more like confirming our expectations than surprising us with grand revelations. But it might be the best structured of the Disney-era Star Wars films, and Larry Kasdan still knows how to write Han Solo. Even when Alden Ehrenreich isn't delivering the goods, you can imagine Harrison Ford nailing those lines and how well the scenes would have played. And the closing reveals, particularly the reveal of who Enfys Nest is and what the character's real objectives are, perked up my interest in that period of the Star Wars timeline.

Like you said, Rogue One was a mess for its first two acts that was saved by a spectacular third act. But the problems in the first two-thirds of the movie are so problematic that it falls to the bottom of the pack for me. When Rogue One gets it right, it gets it really right. But when it gets it wrong, it gets it more wrong than any of the other Disney-era movies. And I'm still not sure it justified itself as a story needing to be told, when we get the cliff notes in the opening crawl for A New Hope. That being said, the Alexa 65 cinematography is phenomenal. This is, for long stretches, one of the most beautiful-looking Star Wars movies. And, given George Lucas's artistic eye, that's really saying something because the Star Wars franchise as a whole is one of the most beautiful-looking franchises.

 

[Wayne_j]

The Force Awakens
Rogue One
SOLO
The Last Jedi

 

[TravisR]

The Last Jedi (by a country mile)
The Force Awakens
Rogue One
Solo

It's a tough call for me to rank Solo and Rogue One. While I liked Solo alot, the last chunk of Rogue One helps give it the edge in my mind.

 

[Tommy R]

This is fun! My turn!
1. The Last Jedi - Loved it, up there with Empire as the best SW has to offer.
2. Rogue One - Not at all a distant second, I loved this one too. On my first viewing I found the first half hard to follow and would have agreed that it hurt the movie, but upon repeated viewings I felt it became much clearer and really fun to watch all the way through.
3. Solo - I found it a lot of fun (and we actually get to see the Falcon make the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs!) but it was bit by-the-numbers. I really wonder if those two guys who got fired were actually making a better movie than what we got. We'll never know I suppose.
4. The Force Awakens - Though I was very happy watching it on it's opening night, it is VERY derivative of ANH. It had it's good elements for sure, the new core of characters, Ford as Solo, a few good action pieces, lightsaber action. But there's just so much bore in between the good stuff it actually has become very hard to re-watch it. And I think I've only seen it maybe 4 or 5 times since 2015.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I agree with the ranking Travis posted a couple posts ago.

 

[Tino]

TFA
TLJ
R1
Solo

 

[tempest21]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Kathleen Kennedy is no more responsible for the success of these new films as George Lucas is. If you mean she's responsible for insulting, offending and turning these new films into a disaster, then you're right, she is responsible. I found it hilarious that someone said The Last Jedi was a success. Hate to burst someone's bubble, The Last Jedi had divided Star Wars fans who saw the movie. Only half of the fans who saw the movie actually liked it. The Last Jedi wasn't made for fans, it was made for the critics. The abysmal rating reviews that the movie received from fans sunk the movie.

Solo: A Star Wars Movie failed because fans got tired of all the social justice crap being pumped into these films and nobody turned out to see the movie. While it garnered a 64% approval on Rotten Tomatoes, fans didn't turn out for it because of the message that Kathleen Kennedy and the Rian Johnson social media crap they had been sending out. Not even Ron Howard could save Solo and Disney lost monjey because of it. Unfortunately, the vitriol that Kennedy and Johnson had been spewing had finally builed over.

Now, I'm a first generation Star Wars fans and I don't personally care one rat's behind about what fools say in an unguarded moment but Kennedy and Johnson should have known better than to post their hateful and harmful comments about how they feel about Star Wars fans on a social media site. Defend Lucasfilm all you want, in the end, it's eventually going to bite you. Karma always comes back to you. I remember my parents taking me and my brother to see Star Wars when it premiered in theaters in 1977 and I have enjoyed every Star Wars film that has been made (even the prequel movies). But, I do see problems in regards to how Kathleen Kennedy views fans and how Rian Johnson's comments were perceived. When you're making a movie, the last thing you want to do is to create controversy and offend and insult the fans who are going to pay money to go out and watch the movie you're making.

It's not a hard concept.

It's a concept that Kevin Feige is about to learn considering the rumors on where Phase IV of the MCU is headed for. Brie Larsen really should learn to shut up on social media (I heard about what she said regarding fans of the MCU).

Some people might feel obliged to just argue with everything I've said here but when it comes right down to the final line, Kathleen Kennedy is the one ultimately responsible when these Star Wars fail to perform at the box office. Disney is in the business of making money from the movies they produce. Solo failed at the box office because of poor decisions, overinflated budgets and an unwillingness to hire the right people. Telling everyone that you need to hire an actign coach for Alden Ehrenreich was a bad move. That was information that should never have gotten out.

What Lucasfilm failed to realize is that while they may have a 'social justice' attitude when it comes to white male Star Wars fans, it's those same Star Wars fans who go to see these Star Wars films. Angering a very large portion of your fanbase is not a smart thing to do. That should have been evident before Solo even started production, after how poorly received The Last Jedi was with fans. Sure, it made a lot of money, but it took a massive hit in the reviews among fans. Star Wars fans don't care about what critics have to say about a movie. These days, all movie studios seem to care about is making movies for critics and winning Academy Awards for those films. They forgot who they were making films for, in the first place.

There has been a lot of speculation that Disney had seen what Rian Johnson wanted to do with The Last Jedi and they weren't exactly happy with it. Even Mark Hamil criticized the portrayal of Luke Skywalker in his film. I just think all of this anger about these films has been slowly perculating until Solo hit theaters and that has Disney very worried about the future of this franchise. They need someone as Lucasfilm President who won't be so polarizing when it comes to the fans who support the Star Wars franchise.

 

[Simon Massey]

ESB
TLJ (controversial)
ANH
TFA
R1
ROTS
ROTJ
SOLO
AOTC
TCW
TPM

 

[Simon Massey]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Kathleen Kennedy is no more responsible for the success of these new films as George Lucas is. If you mean she's responsible for insulting, offending and turning these new films into a disaster, then you're right, she is responsible. I found it hilarious that someone said The Last Jedi was a success. Hate to burst someone's bubble, The Last Jedi had divided Star Wars fans who saw the movie. Only half of the fans who saw the movie actually liked it. The Last Jedi wasn't made for fans, it was made for the critics. The abysmal rating reviews that the movie received from fans sunk the movie.

Solo: A Star Wars Movie failed because fans got tired of all the social justice crap being pumped into these films and nobody turned out to see the movie. While it garnered a 64% approval on Rotten Tomatoes, fans didn't turn out for it because of the message that Kathleen Kennedy and the Rian Johnson social media crap they had been sending out. Not even Ron Howard could save Solo and Disney lost monjey because of it. Unfortunately, the vitriol that Kennedy and Johnson had been spewing had finally builed over.

Now, I'm a first generation Star Wars fans and I don't personally care one rat's behind about what fools say in an unguarded moment but Kennedy and Johnson should have known better than to post their hateful and harmful comments about how they feel about Star Wars fans on a social media site. Defend Lucasfilm all you want, in the end, it's eventually going to bite you. Karma always comes back to you. I remember my parents taking me and my brother to see Star Wars when it premiered in theaters in 1977 and I have enjoyed every Star Wars film that has been made (even the prequel movies). But, I do see problems in regards to how Kathleen Kennedy views fans and how Rian Johnson's comments were perceived. When you're making a movie, the last thing you want to do is to create controversy and offend and insult the fans who are going to pay money to go out and watch the movie you're making.

It's not a hard concept.

It's a concept that Kevin Feige is about to learn considering the rumors on where Phase IV of the MCU is headed for. Brie Larsen really should learn to shut up on social media (I heard about what she said regarding fans of the MCU).

Some people might feel obliged to just argue with everything I've said here but when it comes right down to the final line, Kathleen Kennedy is the one ultimately responsible when these Star Wars fail to perform at the box office. Disney is in the business of making money from the movies they produce. Solo failed at the box office because of poor decisions, overinflated budgets and an unwillingness to hire the right people. Telling everyone that you need to hire an actign coach for Alden Ehrenreich was a bad move. That was information that should never have gotten out.

What Lucasfilm failed to realize is that while they may have a 'social justice' attitude when it comes to white male Star Wars fans, it's those same Star Wars fans who go to see these Star Wars films. Angering a very large portion of your fanbase is not a smart thing to do. That should have been evident before Solo even started production, after how poorly received The Last Jedi was with fans. Sure, it made a lot of money, but it took a massive hit in the reviews among fans. Star Wars fans don't care about what critics have to say about a movie. These days, all movie studios seem to care about is making movies for critics and winning Academy Awards for those films. They forgot who they were making films for, in the first place.

There has been a lot of speculation that Disney had seen what Rian Johnson wanted to do with The Last Jedi and they weren't exactly happy with it. Even Mark Hamil criticized the portrayal of Luke Skywalker in his film. I just think all of this anger about these films has been slowly perculating until Solo hit theaters and that has Disney very worried about the future of this franchise. They need someone as Lucasfilm President who won't be so polarizing when it comes to the fans who support the Star Wars franchise.

Im curious - which of ANY of the Star Wars films do you think was "made for the fans" ?? Do you actually think ANY of them were made that way ? If anything its The Force Awakens, the first film on Kennedy's roster that was more purely fan driven in narrative and character than any other.

And how exactly do you make a film for critics ?

Id say there making the films for fans, new and old alike. Im a "first-generation" SW fan too just about but not sure how my "fandom" is any less valid than someone who came into enjoying the franchise through the latest films.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

I guess the fact that The Last Jedi has outsold every other film on home media this year (including the beloved Black Panther) is more evidence that half the fans hate it, and not that it was just a very vocal portion of the ‘fanbase’ stirring up an inflated sense of outrage. If you want actual outrage against a Star Wars film you need to turn to the Prequel Trilogy (the first two at least). That was very much a divided fanbase (despite the very healthy box office takes). The second film in a trilogy tends to gross the least of the three (not always, but it was the case for Empire and Attack of the Clones at least), and that’s all I really think happened with The Last Jedi, plus a little bit of franchise fatigue, and some disappointment with Solo’s exit and a feeling that TFA was a retread. But the global Box office take for The Last Jedi was very healthy, indicative of lots of repeat business - something you only really see when people like what they saw enough to shell out money to see it again n on the big screen.

It’s okay not to like The Last Jedi, but to blanket say that it was a failure; that “half the fans” hated it or that it somehow was against white males is so preposterous that I’m struggling to respond without shaking my head here.

This lifelong, white male Star Wars fan really enjoyed The Last Jedi. Flaws and all.

 

[TravisR]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Kathleen Kennedy is no more responsible for the success of these new films as George Lucas is. If you mean she's responsible for insulting, offending and turning these new films into a disaster, then you're right, she is responsible. I found it hilarious that someone said The Last Jedi was a success. Hate to burst someone's bubble, The Last Jedi had divided Star Wars fans who saw the movie. Only half of the fans who saw the movie actually liked it. The Last Jedi wasn't made for fans, it was made for the critics. The abysmal rating reviews that the movie received from fans sunk the movie.

Solo: A Star Wars Movie failed because fans got tired of all the social justice crap being pumped into these films and nobody turned out to see the movie. While it garnered a 64% approval on Rotten Tomatoes, fans didn't turn out for it because of the message that Kathleen Kennedy and the Rian Johnson social media crap they had been sending out. Not even Ron Howard could save Solo and Disney lost monjey because of it. Unfortunately, the vitriol that Kennedy and Johnson had been spewing had finally builed over.

Now, I'm a first generation Star Wars fans and I don't personally care one rat's behind about what fools say in an unguarded moment but Kennedy and Johnson should have known better than to post their hateful and harmful comments about how they feel about Star Wars fans on a social media site. Defend Lucasfilm all you want, in the end, it's eventually going to bite you. Karma always comes back to you. I remember my parents taking me and my brother to see Star Wars when it premiered in theaters in 1977 and I have enjoyed every Star Wars film that has been made (even the prequel movies). But, I do see problems in regards to how Kathleen Kennedy views fans and how Rian Johnson's comments were perceived. When you're making a movie, the last thing you want to do is to create controversy and offend and insult the fans who are going to pay money to go out and watch the movie you're making.

It's not a hard concept.

It's a concept that Kevin Feige is about to learn considering the rumors on where Phase IV of the MCU is headed for. Brie Larsen really should learn to shut up on social media (I heard about what she said regarding fans of the MCU).

Some people might feel obliged to just argue with everything I've said here but when it comes right down to the final line, Kathleen Kennedy is the one ultimately responsible when these Star Wars fail to perform at the box office. Disney is in the business of making money from the movies they produce. Solo failed at the box office because of poor decisions, overinflated budgets and an unwillingness to hire the right people. Telling everyone that you need to hire an actign coach for Alden Ehrenreich was a bad move. That was information that should never have gotten out.

What Lucasfilm failed to realize is that while they may have a 'social justice' attitude when it comes to white male Star Wars fans, it's those same Star Wars fans who go to see these Star Wars films. Angering a very large portion of your fanbase is not a smart thing to do. That should have been evident before Solo even started production, after how poorly received The Last Jedi was with fans. Sure, it made a lot of money, but it took a massive hit in the reviews among fans. Star Wars fans don't care about what critics have to say about a movie. These days, all movie studios seem to care about is making movies for critics and winning Academy Awards for those films. They forgot who they were making films for, in the first place.

There has been a lot of speculation that Disney had seen what Rian Johnson wanted to do with The Last Jedi and they weren't exactly happy with it. Even Mark Hamil criticized the portrayal of Luke Skywalker in his film. I just think all of this anger about these films has been slowly perculating until Solo hit theaters and that has Disney very worried about the future of this franchise. They need someone as Lucasfilm President who won't be so polarizing when it comes to the fans who support the Star Wars franchise.

Ugh. Am I on Twitter?

 

[TJPC]

To me, these are only movies. I found them all enjoyable to a lesser or greater extent. Some people however seem to regard these as a religion!

 

[Tino]

I was going to respond to some of the silly absurd comments above but why argue with a closed book right?

 

[Tommy R]

Aren't a lot of movies like this though? I feel there are a lot of mainstream films over the years that split audiences. The question is then, does it matter? I'm thinking no.

 

[tempest21]

I wasn't really trying to argue about it, I'm just going on this based on the box office receipts and the home video sales between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Geeks and Gamers had reported on the figures related to the sales and that TLJ is simply lagging behind other Disney related films and it simply doesn't look good, if you're the CEO/President of Disney or happen to be one of their principle stockholders. There was a substantial drop between the opening weekend receipts of The Force Awakens when you compare it to The Last Jedi. From the figures I saw, The Force Awakens generated 3,420,540 total units sold during the first week of sales while The Last Jedi sold 1,802,697 total units. Even 17 weeks into the sales figures of The Last Jedi, the Blu-ray release hasn't come close to matching the first week of sales for The Force Awakens. These are sales figures from the first week of the Blu-ray releases for these films. That is a staggering drop in sales, which I doubt Disney was prepared for. With J.J. Abrams return for Episode IX, no doubt Episode IX will match the sales of The Force Awakes Blu-ray if not exceed those numbers.

Even if you look at the box office receipts for The Force Awakens compared to The Last Jedi, there is a huge drop off between those two movies as well. The Force Awakens generated $2,068,223,624 in box office receipts while The Last Jedi generated $1,332,539,889. While the movie made money for Disney, it didn't come close to matching J.J. Abrams box office take on TFA. Solo did far worse, taking in $392,923,281.

Ron Howard did a fine job but clearly the content of the films that Kathleen Kennedy wanted injected into the film were met with considerable backlash. While I did go out this past week and purchase the Star Wars Saga (Reissue) and Rogue One on Blu-ray and will no doubt purchase Solo, I'm just on the fence about The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi because of how Lucasfilm's president treated those films. I had flashbacks to the Star Trek reboot films. Lens Flares are one thing I never want to see in a movie, ever again. I think they are overused special effect that weren't properly utilized in the Star Trek films and in The Force Awakens. The main problem that bothered me about The Last Jedi was how Luke Skywalker was treated in the movie. I just understand why Mark Hamil made the comments he did make. I got to see Solo for the first time, watching the digital HD release of it and I think Lucasfilm went overboard with the SJW crap in these films. It wasn't as bad in The Force Awakens but The Last Jedi and Solo are infested with it.

These Star Wars films should only have had one goal: making a fun Star Wars movie that everyone could enjoy. Whether you agree with with I said or don't, the unmistakable truth is that Star Wars fans were affected by the tone of TLJ and Solo and they made sure that Lucasfilm was aware of it by not paying to watch these films at the box office. Personally, I think Solo failed because Lucasfilm crammed too much crap into the movie, the same reason why Sam Raimi's Spiderman 3 failed. Movie studios don't learn the lesson that other studios had to learn the hard way. Solo wasn't a bad movie but it just felt that they could have saved some of the plot developments for potential sequels. The movie just felt like it was rushed, there was no character development. I felt the same way about the characters in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, there was just no character development.

 

[Tino]

the unmistakable truth is that Star Wars fans were affected by the tone of TLJ and Solo and they made sure that Lucasfilm was aware of it by not paying to watch these films at the box office.

It’s certainly not unmistakable. TLJ was a boxoffice hit despite your incorrect claims. The fact that it made less than TFA does not equate to it not being successful.

Do you really not get that??

 

[Tommy R]

I think nothing was going to beat TFA. It was the first SW movie in a decade, and the first with the original three cast members in 32 years (one of whom is Harrison Ford). I think the B.O. performance of TLJ pleased Lucasfilm perfectly well as a drop was undoubtedly and inherently expected.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

As has been reported many, many times, Disney was well aware that The Force Awakens was a once-in-a-generation success and went out of their way to caution shareholders not to expect the same results from future Star Wars films.

 

[WillG]

It’s certainly not unmistakable. TLJ was a boxoffice hit despite your incorrect claims. The fact that it made less than TFA does not equate to it not being successful.

Do you really not get that??

Also remember that TESB made less at the BO than ANH

 

[WillG]

When a movie studio refuses to listen to the legions of fans of this franchise, then the movies you produce are going to bomb at the box office. The failure of Solo is evidence of this theory.

Not sure Solo is a good example of your point. Logically speaking, anyone who hated TLJ because it fucked with the formula and subverted expectations should have been quite pleased with Solo because it did give those fans pretty much everything they expected:

Meeting Chewie
Meeting Lando
Kessel Run
Winning the Falcon from Lando
The dice
etc.

Now I get that some probably stayed away from Solo because of TLJ but Solo should have been a real crowd pleaser on the "listen to the fans" aspect