Source Direct and Marantz receivers

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by AjayRAV, Jul 10, 2003.

  1. AjayRAV

    AjayRAV Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi guys,

    I have a Marantz SR6200 receiver, VC5200 DVD changer, Klipsch KSB 2.1 fronts, KV2 center, KSB1.1 rears and Adire RAVA sub. I've set the speakers to small and sub on. It sounds OK in the Auto mode, but the soundstage widens dramatically in source direct. Would it be best if I fed the SW from the LR pre-outs, set the receiver settings as follows: LR Large; rears and center small,sub off and use the sub level and frequency to blend in the bass. I listen to both music and movies. Comments, suggestion???

    Thanks,
    Ajay
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Using source direct sets all your speakers to large and defeats all tone adjustments. The reason it seems like a wider soundstage is beause your mains extend below the x-over slope, and the x-over point (100Hz) is probably a bit too high. I have a 6200 also, and experience the same thing. If you use the sub to handle the x-over of the mains, you will likely get better results, as you can select a better point for the mains to blend.
     
  3. AjayRAV

    AjayRAV Stunt Coordinator

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    Actually, it almost seems like the top-end is affected. When I switch from SDirect to 2 channel or auto, the top end actually loses some sparkle, resulting in a duller sound. Since only the lower frequencies should be affected by the receivers crossover, I am curious as to this alteration in the treble.
     
  4. ChrisDixon

    ChrisDixon Second Unit

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    Are you connected to your CD player via analog or digital? If analog, it will sound much better in SD. Here's why:

    Source direct: 1. CD player DACs convert digital to analog, 2. Marantz sends amplified signal to speakers.

    Stereo/Auto: 1. CD player DACs convert digital to analog, 2. Marantz converts analog to digital and applies tone controls and bass manangement, 3. Marantz converts digital back to analog, 4. Marantz sends amplified signal to speakers.

    As you can see, there is a lot more processing that is prone to loss of clarity in Stereo/Auto. Source Direct is much better at passing the "pure" sound.

    If you have a digital connection from your CD player, the Marantz is doing the initial digital-to-analog conversion (whether in source direct or not). A good CD player will usually do a better job of it, so I would recommend using analog source direct with the 6200.

    Chris
     
  5. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Since you are using a DVD player to play CDs, I would say the 6200 has better DACs, so I would stick with a digital connection. A decent stand alone CDP will likely have better DACs than both your DVD and the 6200, though I had a CC4000 (not OSE) and I was not impressed at all with it's analog output. I am using a Sony 222ES via analog to my 6200 and it sounds great. If I play music with my DVD, I get better results with digital and source direct, but it still does not compare to the DACs in the 222.
     
  6. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    I have a 5300, but the setup is similar. In Source Direct, all bass management is bypassed, and your mains are set to large, sub to ON. You can then use the sub's crossover to blend it in with your mains. This is essentially exactly the same as using the pre-out L/R. You sould leave the sub connected to the sub out, NOT the L/R preout.

    When you listen to music, engage the crossover in your subwoofer, put your system in source direct, you'll get stereo full-range out of your front two speakers, and the sub should be blended in to help in the lowest registers.

    Then when you listen to movies, disengage, turn up the sub crossover, and take the receiver out of S. Direct, and then bass management will be engaged. Note that you will want to set your speakers to small (or however you prefer the settings) for movies, and leave them that way. When engaging S. Direct for music, the receiver automatically sets the mains to Large and the sub to on. Afterwards, it reverts back to your settings of small, etc.

    As much as you'd want to listen in S. Direct for movies, the difference is hard to hear, (i can't in movies anyway), this defeats any bass management, so your sub will not be getting any of the bass from the main channels, and I am also pretty sure that no time alignment is done either. Here the benefits of S. Direct is most likely surpassed by the negatives of these two things, so I would recommend you set it up as I have, by only using S. Direct for music and regular for movies, it works best (sounds better to me too), relieves strain on the receiver and speakers by sending all the bass to the sub.
     
  7. Jason.Soko

    Jason.Soko Stunt Coordinator

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    Have you ever tried using the preouts on your sr6200? I cannot get ANY sound to be played out of them if the source is digital.
     
  8. Steve Lucas

    Steve Lucas Stunt Coordinator

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    This may be a little off topic, but since we are talking about Marantz SP-6200 recievers, I thought I'd ask.
    In my HT, I am running 6.1 channels. No complaints with the Marantz's sound, but in order to engage the 6th channel, I have to specifically keep the surround mode in 6.1. However, most previews on DVD's and main menu sounds effects don't work in 6.1 mode. To hear them, I have to use auto or Pro-Logic II, etc. Am I missing something? Is there a way to use Auto and have the recieve drive the 6th channel? Or a way to get sound from the previews while in 6.1 mode? I love this reciever, but this one problem is annoying.

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  9. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    My 6200 does not seem to have a problem picking up 6.1 signals and selecting the appropriate mode. I leave it in auto all the time.
     
  10. Mark Ro

    Mark Ro Agent

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    Since were still talking about the 6200, does anyone have any recommendations for an illuminated universal remote for around $100.00. I'v e tried all the radio shacks and no luck. I was thing of the MX-500.
     
  11. Steve Lucas

    Steve Lucas Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the MX-500 and I love it. The only downside is that it seems to eat batteries much faster than any other remote I've ever had, ie. about 3 months for a set of batteries. But since it doesn't lose any of it's settings when you change batteries, that's a very minor point. It controls all my equipment, including my Lutron light controls and learns macros, so my wife can run the theater. It seems to be pretty powerful as well, I don't need to point it ant the component I want to control, I can point it at my screen and the bounce seems to hit all my equipment in the room.

    Steve
     
  12. Steve Lucas

    Steve Lucas Stunt Coordinator

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    Any idea why mine doesn't drive the 6th speaker in Auto mode? Is there a menu setting somewhere that I've missed?

    Steve
     
  13. Daniel T.

    Daniel T. Agent

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    Steve Lucas-

    I have a SR5200, and in the speaker setup menu there is a "SURR.CENTER" setting. Mine is defaulted to "NO".

    With my OSD, I hit menu/speaker setup/page 1 of 3, and its where ya set speakers to large or small or off. Hope that might help.
     
  14. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    With DD EX material, the rear center may not illuminate (I had to walk back and listen to make sure it was playing), however on 6.1 discrete material it definitely should. Try out a DVD that is DTS-ES discrete, such as: Gladiator, The Haunting (DTS ver), Blade II.

    Remote: I picked up a Marantz RC2000 MkII brand new for $129 (MSRP $249?). I picked up this remote the week I bought my 6200 because I hated the remote that came with it. Already has most of the receiver's codes, but needs the 6.1 and 7ch input buttons programmed, which is a matter of minutes. Backlit, but does not eat batteries because you can turn off the backlight from the menu and control backlighting with the push of a button only when you want it (a very nice feature). It retains it's memory for quite a long time with the batteries removed or dead and it also gives you a warning about low batteries well in advance of their demise.
     
  15. Steve Lucas

    Steve Lucas Stunt Coordinator

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    Daniel T.
    Thanks for the info. I'll look at mine tonight and see if I have that same menu.
    One other question...with the mode set to 6.1, I get 6 channels of surround no matter what disk I am watching. Are you saying that in Auto mode, the 6th channel only works when the disk is encoded with either 6.1 or DD EX?

    Steve

    PS.. Can't help but laugh. Your name reminds me of "O' Brother where art thou"...."Big Dan T.", John Goodman's character.
     
  16. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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  17. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Things are often mis-flagged too, are they not? It should aut-detect DTS-ES discrete, and correctly flagged 6.1 titles. Otherwise, you need to engage it manually.
     
  18. AjayRAV

    AjayRAV Stunt Coordinator

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  19. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Clarification - if you have a stereo (2ch) signal, you will get no sound from the sub when the sub is hooked up via the sub pre-out. If you have material, such as DTS CDs, that has an LFE channel present, you WILL hear sound from the sub even in source direct.

    I think he is talking about if you wire the mains directly to the sub with the large setting, in which case you can use the sub to control the x-over frequency.
     
  20. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    No. Most definitely not. I have my subwoofer (SVS PCi 2039) hooked up via pre-out. I have my speakers set as small, sub to ON. When I engage source direct (which is about 95% of the time, unless I want to blow myself away with SVS bass without endangering my mini-monitors), the receiver turns sets the speakers to LARGE, and the sub to ON. It does not use (as far as I can tell) any crossover at all, but sends a full-range signal out of the sub out. If i leave the crossover on the SVS off, you can hear it trying to do some voices and midrange. I do not have my sub wired via the mains. This is a particularly handy setup, because when i get the whole theater setup, I can just take it out of source direct, and turn off the crossover on the sub and i'm good to go, all the speakers will revert to small, and bass management will give all the bass to the SVS. Then I can flip into S-direct, flip on the crossover switch on the SVS and then it will set my mains to large, everything else to off for stereo, and i'm good to go again.

    Again, I'm using the 5300, which may work a little bit differently than the 5200. By bypassing the A-D D-A conversion for crossover, you get a full-range signal to the sub so you have to use the sub's crossover. I DID have problems originally, because I wanted to have s-direct turn OFF the sub, and then turn it on in stereo mode, but this did not work, and then i got the SVS and i use that all the time now. I had a pathetic sony wm20 that i didn't want to hear when listening to most music. I'd check your manual, my manual was somewhat cryptic, but I figured it out at the dealer, and then again at home here.

    John is right in saying that the sub out will ONLY give you LFE for DD/DTS material, which may be fine if you have capable speakers, because in a lot of sountracks most of the bass is in the main channels. That's why I don't run in s-direct for movies because i want that bass given to the SVS, and not straining my smaller bookshelves and the amp too. He is, however incorrect in that it will not work via sub pre-out in source direct. It may not on other receivers, as you may be exxperiencing on your 5200, but it definitly works on my 5300, and it's one thing that is a pretty important feature for me. Hope you can find a way to make that work!
     

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