Some set-up questions regrading the Denon 2900...

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by greggor, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. greggor

    greggor Second Unit

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    I just recieved this DVD player a few days ago and I have some questions regarding the set-up. My questions:

    1. If I set the speakers to small does this overide my receiver settings? Same questions about setting them to large.
    2. I am calibrating my speaker settings using the AVIA disk. Do I adjust the speaker levels on the player or on the receiver?
    3. Also where can I find the bass management for DVD-A? I have a few DVD-A disks and when I played them yesterday the DVD player wouldn't let me select the DVD-A option on the disk, and it would only allow me to play in Dolby Dig or DTS??? Also, the DVD-A light on the front of the player never illuminated. When I swithched my receiver to DVD-A though I could hear the sound through the analog inputs.

    Finally, the piocture quality and sound quality of this DVD player are stellar, but the owners manual is vague and very un helpfull. Any help any of you could give me would be greatly appreciated...

    Greg
     
  2. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    1 - the bass and time management settings in the player are only applied to its analog output. most receivers do not allow or apply any bass or time management to the multichannel inputs, although a few do. what's your receiver?

    2 - you can adjust the calibration levels at either the player or at the receiver (provided you can adjust the levels of the receiver's external inputs).

    i'm not sure what you're asking in 3. do you mean in the dvd's setup menu or the player's?
     
  3. greggor

    greggor Second Unit

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    Thanks Scott. I'm using B&K'3 AVR 507. In 3 I'm referring to the bass management on the player for DVD-A. Any ideas as to why the DVD player won't recognize my DVD-A disks?
     
  4. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    hmmm? i'm sorry, but i'm still not sure what you mean. the player's "bass management" is the speaker size settings in the setup menus and those apply to all formats; redbook cd, dd, dts, sacd, and dvda.

    not being able to recognize dvda discs is probably not related to the player's bass management.

    you're not trying to play dvda via your digital connection, are you?
     
  5. greggor

    greggor Second Unit

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    No I'm trying to play through the analog outputs. The problem is that the player doesn't allow me to select the analog inputs and automatically defaults to DD. For example if I place a DVD-A disk in the DVD player and there are three options available on the disk like DD, DTS, or DVD-A the player won't allow me to choose the DVD-A option and defaults to DD not allowing me to here through the analog outputs. I hope this clarifies things a bit. There is also a DVD-A light on the front panel which doesn't illuminate as I'm sure it should. I feel like I'm missing something obvious here but the owners manual is very vague.
     
  6. Steven_Lazarus

    Steven_Lazarus Stunt Coordinator

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    Greg,
    Happy to hear you got your player all in one piece [​IMG]

    1. Make sure the playback priority is set to DVD-A otherwise it will play the DVD-V layer , should default to DVD-A layer but you never know!!

    2. Using the players setup menu and selecting Speaker size and Output level will in turn set the players internal crossovers so the signal that is sent to the receivers 6CH input are taken care of already. So you should just main line (0 out) all your receiver settings unless you need to adjust a speaker level down the road.
    Also, your receiver should not allow for speaker size settings for 6CH input (mine does not for 6CH direct anyway) if it does I would set them the same as you did in the Denon setup menu. For my H/K only type of input, level adjustment and delay settings are adjustable for 6CH input...
    Done a little searching and found the following that might help during your setup quest. Will keep looking for DVD-A issues and keep you posted. I did see a post about having optical outs set to none for DVD-A..???


    Ralph Potts-
    HTSpot senior writer


    Analog Multi channel out Bass Management - This has been an area of discussion surrounding this player since it’s release. I will forego the explanation of why certain speakers should be set to large versus small etc. when setting up bass management, as most should be some what versed in it by now. The 2900 utilizes an 80Hz fixed crossover point for it’s analog multi channel outputs. The analog subwoofer output (.1) on the 2900 is significantly lower than the other 5 channel’s output. There is roughly a 5 decibel (or more) difference, which makes calibrating the 2900’s output to 75db (using the Radio Shack analog SPL meter for example) impossible. The five main channels can be calibrated/balanced to 75db while the subwoofer channel would be barely audible. This creates a problem for anyone not using all full range speakers. In my case I use large main speakers and medium sized center and surrounds. This would require setting the center and surrounds to the small setting. I found that setting ALL speakers to the small setting yielded the best results. Leaving the mains set to large and others to small seemed to yield less bass response. In order to calibrate/balance the output from the five main channels AND the sub I did the following:


    Set all speakers to SMALL and subwoofer to YES
    Set my pre/pro to the multi channel analog input
    Set the 2900’s test tone generator to Manual (so I could adjust each speaker separately)
    LOWERED the five main channels to their lowest setting (-10db)
    Left the Subwoofer setting at it’s MAXIMUM setting (0db)
    Set the volume on my pre/pro to reference level (0 db)
    Set my SPL meter to 70db, slow response, C weighting
    This gave me a reading on the meter from the subwoofer output of about 69db. This will vary depending on what your sub’s gain is set to. I then balanced the remaining channels to that reading on the meter. You may find that you need to adjust the sub’s gain to achieve the proper balance. Once this was done the results from the subwoofer’s output compared to the other channels was much better. The blend between my speakers and the subwoofer was excellent. The crossover worked as advertised and for the first time I was able to enjoy my DVDA/SACD recordings with proper bass management !

    The 2900 features a “ filter “ option in it’s audio setup menu. The owner’s manual states that this is for discs recorded in 6.0 rather than 5.1. The default setting is “ On “. Setting the filter to “ Off “ automatically set’s all speakers to Large and the subwoofer to Yes. The manual states that this will increase the subwoofer output 5db for DVD’s (and DVD A discs) and 15 db for SACD. I tried this and did not note a 15 db increase in the subwoofers output, nor any significant change in the output for DVD or DVD A discs. As previously stated the best results overall were achieved with all speakers set to Small subwoofer set to Yes.

    There are adjustments for time alignment (delay) for DVD Audio and Dolby digital/DTS decoding only. There is no such adjustment for time alignment for SACD playback. As I understand it this is an issue with most if not all SACD players. The 2900 will allow you to indicate how far your speakers are from your listening position in terms of feet or meter distances. Once I set up the unit for speaker size, time alignment, and calibrated the channel levels, I was ready to do some critical listening.
     
  7. Steven_Lazarus

    Steven_Lazarus Stunt Coordinator

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    Not sure if this is in the manual, I don't own it [​IMG]
    DVD-2900 Audio Setup Tips

    The following setup guidelines are recommended for the DVD-2900 player to work to its fullest potential in
    the playback of DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD material as well as DVD-Video material (if you are using the
    internal Dolby Digital and dts decoders of the DVD-2900). These settings do not affect signals going to the digital outputs.

    DENON recommends using the Dolby Digital/dts decoders in your receiver/processor for DVD-Video material
    by means of either a coaxial or optical digital connection from the DVD-2900. This allows you calibrate your
    receiver/processor in a normal fashion, or as you would do for any DVD-Video player. Depending our your
    particular receiver/processor you will then need to switch from a digital signal input from the DVD-2900
    (DVD-V material) to the External Inputs for DVD-Audio and/or Super Audio CD to calibrate the DVD-2900’s decoders.

    Setup of the players is relatively straight forward, except for DVD-Audio and SACD playback, where you must setup the Bass Management, adjust Delay Time (only functions for DVD-A, DD and dts) and calibrate
    Channel levels. You only need to do the Audio Setup once, as it is a global setup for all the formats. • ACCESSING THE ‘SETUP’ FUNCTION OF THE PLAYER, TOGGLE TO THE ‘AUDIO SETUP’
    SCREEN (PAGE 4 OF 6). TOGGLE DOWN TO ‘AUDIO CHANNEL’ AND HIGHLIGHT ‘MULTI CHANNEL’, PRESS ‘ENTER’. • You will be shown a screen display labeled ‘Speaker Configuration’, where you will configure
    the unit to your speakers. Select ‘Large’, ‘Small’ or ‘None’ depending on your particular
    speaker configuration. Selecting ‘Small’ engages the 80Hz hi/low pass crossover. Note that
    selecting ‘Large’ for the Front Channels will allow you to select ‘Large for the other speakers in
    your system. W e recommend setting all speakers to ‘Small’ unless you are using speakers that have built-in subwoofers, and they are connected to your receiver/amplifier by only
    speaker wire. • ALSO ON THIS SCREEN, YOU WILL ALSO BE ABLE TO ADJUST A SPECIAL ‘FILTER’
    FEATURE WHICH IS FOR DISCS FROM CHESKY AND OTHERS RECORDED IN 6.0, NOT 5.1.
    THE FACTORY DEFAULT SETTING IS ‘ON’. • Toggle ‘Off’ depending on the apparent lack of bass response when playing certain discs, and also if you have no Analog External Subwoofer in/output control on your Receiver/Pre-pro.
    This will increase the SW output 5dB for DVDs and 15dB for SACDs – please note that in the
    ‘Off position, all speakers are automatically set to Large with Subwoofer ‘Yes’. • NEXT, USE THE ‘RETURN’ KEY TO GET BACK TO THE ‘SPEAKER CONFIGURATION’ MENU.
    TOGGLE PAST ‘CHANNEL LEVEL’ (WE WILL COME BACK TO THIS IN A BIT), DOWN TO
    ‘DELAY TIME’ AND PRESS ‘ENTER’.
    • You are now shown a screen where you are to tell the DVD-2900 how far away you are (in your favorite listening position) from each speaker in your system. We recommend using a
    tape measure for this, and round up to the next number in whole feet, for example if you are
    14’ ¾” away, then tell the 2900 for that speaker 15 feet. Once you have done all the speakers
    in your system, press the ‘Return’ key. • NOW TOGGLE TO THE ‘CHANNEL LEVEL’ BUTTON, AND PRESS ‘ENTER’ • For these adjustments we highly recommend you use an SPL (Sound Pressure Level) meter, Radio Shack makes a excellent analog one for about $35. This exercise is similar to setting
    up the surround processor, with a twist. Since you are using test tones generated inside the DVD-2900, and not the processor, it is crucial that you first have your Receiver/Pre-pro
    calibrated. This is because the better processors automatically raise their volume controls
    when doing test tone calibration, and once you have completed the processor’s calibration
    you now have a test tone reference point for the DVD-2900. • Using the display, or indicator on the volume control, mark down the reference point volume of
    your processor when it is outputting its internal test tones, and set the volume to that point
    before calibrating the DVD-2900. • We suggest setting the ‘Test Tone’ to manual as this setting allows you to control the tempo of
    calibration, not the player. It is also easier on the nerves. Go through each channel, so they
    calibrate to, or as close to, 75dB on the meter. The test tone outputs on the 2900 may not be
    enough to get to true 75dB (depending on the External Inputs output settings – see below), so get close, but make sure all the channels measure to the same point. • Many receivers/pre-pros have individual channel input and/or output level controls on
    their External Inputs, these may need to be adjusted to obtain proper calibration.
    Please check out the product’s Owners Manual for assistance. All DENON AVRs have
    independent output level controls for the External Analog Inputs, while the 28/38/5803
    models also have a Subwoofer Input Level control adjustment. • If your particular product does not have level controls, DENON recommends to set the
    5 Main Channel levels to their lowest output setting and leave the Subwoofer at 0dB
    (highest output setting) in the DVD-2900 before starting the calibration process. • ONCE COMPLETED, PRESS THE ‘RETURN’ KEY TWICE. YOU SHOULD BE BACK TO THE
    ‘AUDIO SETUP’ MENU. TOGGLE DOWN TO ‘SUPER AUDIOCD’, USE THE ‘RIGHT ARROW’
    KEY TO HIGHLIGHT ‘MULTI-CHANNEL’ BUTTON AND PRESS ‘ENTER’. THIS WILL SET THE DEFAULT OF THE DVD-2900 TO LOOK FOR MULTI-CHANNEL TRACKS ON SACDS FIRST (IF
    PRESENT ON THE DISC), IF NONE IS AVAILABLE THE 2900 WILL GO TO THE STEREO
    SACD TRACK. PLEASE REMEMBER THIS IS A DEFAULT SETTING IN THE SETUP OF THE
    PLAYER, YOU CAN OVERRIDE THIS WITH THE MANUAL CONTROL DESCRIBED BELOW. • You have the choice of accessing any soundtrack (Multi/2Ch/PCM or CD) on a SACD disc by
    using the ‘Super Audio CD Setup’ button on the front panel of the player. This means you do not have to have your Display device to switch soundtracks on SACDs. • If the disc is a Multi-Channel Hybrid, upon insertion the DVD-2900 will grab the Multi-Channel
    version first and you can begin playback. If you would like to switch between the different
    versions, just depress the button, watch the front panel display to determine which version you
    have selected.
    Please keep in mind that with each changing of soundtrack, the player will stop playing the current version, re-load and cue to the soundtrack you selected by the ‘Setup’ button. Then
    press ‘Play’ and the track will begin. Also if you press the ‘Setup’ button many times quickly, it
    is possible to cause the player to be confused, read ‘Locked’. If this should occur, power
    down, then power up the DVD-2900, and everything should be fine. • THERE IS ALSO A ‘BASS ENHANCER’ CONTROL ON THE ‘AUDIO SETUP’ PAGE. TURNING ‘ON’ WILL PROVIDE FOR SUBWOOFER OUTPUT (2.1) WHEN LISTENING TO 2 CHANNEL
    AUDIO. THIS SETTING ONLY EFFECTS THE ANALOG OUTPUTS.
     
  8. greggor

    greggor Second Unit

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    This was the exact answer I was looking for. The problem is where do I find this option?

    Your other information is also very helpful. Apparantly the large speaker settings on the DVD player only affect the analog outputs and have no bearing on the signal passed through eother the coax or optical interconnect. I'll play areound with the player some more to see if I can get this thing figured out...
     
  9. greggor

    greggor Second Unit

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    I just played around with the menus some more and there is no way to select DVD-A anywhere! This is very frustrating. Its like the players not even designed to decode DVD-A. Luckily my DVD-A disks have DD soundtracks on them or I wouldn't be able to listen to any of them anymore! Does anyone have this player who has run into the same dilemma???
     
  10. EricRWem

    EricRWem Screenwriter

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    Real quick if it hasn't already been said: Do NOT use the test tones from this player. It's been well established that they are inaccurate and will not yield you the most desireable results.
     
  11. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    This was the exact answer I was looking for. The problem is where do I find this option?

    In the Other Setup mode set the Player Mode to AUDIO.
     
  12. Steven_Lazarus

    Steven_Lazarus Stunt Coordinator

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    In the "Other Setup" mode, set the "player Mode" to "Audio"

    Did this do the trick Greg?, I think I've seen a few posts regarding this issue, you would think the DVD-A would automatically send out the appropriate format to the player but you actually have to set it manually.
     
  13. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Steve! As a long time user I think I have something to offer here.
    I concluded that this player "sounds" best if it's speaker settings are left at large and sub "on".The bass loss at the sub out occurs when you select the mains small,if you run a test tone in both settings you'll notice about 10db increase[with large,beyond that the filter set "on" won't produce anything higher as you observed],if you use a RS meter it's probably 7db due to the meter's inaccuracy.
    Subjectively speaking I also found a small setting's produce sound quality loss when followed Denon's set up tip,and lowered the main five channel's level to compensate for the LFE loss.The disatnce setting for DVD-A is useful however.All in all an outside analog BM is the way to go with this player or large speakers all around IMO.
     
  14. greggor

    greggor Second Unit

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    Thanks Lewis it works great and sounds amazing! I think the reason I missed the "other set-up" option was because I had a DVD installed as I was playing around with the settings. I currently have the speakers set to large (Paradigm Studio reference all the way around) with the filter on. Am I correct in assuming that this will have no effect on my reciever speaker settings when watching movies? I prefer my speakers set to small when watching DVD's as I take full advantage of my B&K's flexible crossover. FWIW I always use the test tones on my receiver in conjunction with the Avia disk for a proper speaker level calibration. I appreciate your help.

    Greg
     
  15. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    again, the player's bass and time management settings are not applied to it's digital output. if you use a digital connection to your receiver for your movies' audio, then the receiver's settings will be the ones that are applied. otherwise, with the analog multichannel connection, unless the receiver allows bass and time management of it's external inputs, the receiver's settings will be bypassed.
     
  16. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Greg,what Scott said.
    Enjoy![​IMG]
     

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