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Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (5 Viewers)

Nelson Au

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I'm in a Star Trek mood today. A couple season 2 episodes tonight---not sure which to pick. Any suggestions?
Mirror, Mirror, The Doomsday Machine or Metamorphosis. I like Metamorphosis because it’s very reminiscent of first season episodes that taught our characters something. One of my favorites. There’s so many Season Two episodes to chose from!
 

Nelson Au

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I wanted to follow up my post from yesterday about my feeling of reticence on revisiting the TOS Star Trek films after Star Trek The Motion Picture. It was not meant to be negative or give off a vibe that I did not like them. Back in the day, as I posted above, I loved them and eagerly awaited for news of a new movie and anticipating the premieres! I’ve seen them countless times!

In thinking about it, it does seem like Star Trek 2.0 and maybe that’s part of it. It’s not the same, it’s not the original series. But given that 10 years had passed from 1969 to 1979, the characters had to be shown in a different place in their lives and the first movie did that very well. The second film picks up at some point that’s not defined and the rest of the series carry’s on in that time line.

The recent posts with all the love for Star Trek 3 and its fortieth anniversary has had me reconsidering its time to finally re-visit the TOS films. I expect to recieve the Steelbook 4K blu ray of Star Trek 3 this coming week. But before I see that, I need to see Star Trek 2: The Roth of Khan. Sorry, since Shatner semi-jokingly called it that way from his Canadian roots on the Merv Griffin show in 1982, it’s stuck with me.

Also as I’ve been on a journey to re-visit Star Trek TNG episodes that I rarely watch, this made sense! So last night, I finally watched Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan on the 4K blu ray and for the first time, on a large OLED display I upgraded to a few years ago. So it was a great way to re-visit the film for the first time in 4K.

I’ve seen this film so many times, I have a lot of the dialogue still memorized. But some dialogue wasn’t as readily on my tongue. I did enjoy my viewing a lot. I knew what was coming, so the ending doesn’t hurt as much as it used to. And I think over time, I didn’t like that these major characters had to make these sacrifices. But it was part of the theme of the film, so it had resonance. The score was great, though I missed Goldsmith. But I did remember when I first saw the movie in the theater, I was happy to hear the Alexander Courage theme. The score can soar and raise the emotions and then scare and make you sad. It is a great Star Trek film.

I also experienced nostalgia and reminisced what I thought and felt when I saw the film the very first time. I did not like the change in the fonts used in the titles and credits. Why not use the font from the first film? I thought the new naval themed uniforms that Meyer wanted were cool back then, but over time, I’ve been less favorable of them. They are stylized. Amd in that sense, very much in line with TOS. But incongruous for a film that followed The Motion Picture. I never like Fletcher’s designs for the civilian clothing in any of the TOS films. Not in 1982 or today. ☺️ (Buster Brown on Chekov in Star Trek 3 especially)

The lower budget of this film often shows and I noticed it right away in 1982. Some examples are the corridors outside of the Simulator Room. As Kirk and Spock walk out in the corridor and discuss the best of times, that set, while a good looking set, looks incomplete. The view out the windows looks like a blue painted wall and as Kirk and Spock stop near the doorway, there is a forced perspective miniature placed in front of them to create the illusion of depth and a larger set. It mostly works and I didn’t even know it was a miniature until later years. IIRC, this was the case, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Also on Regula One, there is the use of obviously rental props that looks like computer banks with flashing lights. Though the central part of the set with the arch is a nice piece. But that monitor is a CRT with a box built around it looks like just that. The genesis cave and associated Genesis device was all great.

On the upside, the effects by ILM are great. Though they take on the “ILM” look as opposed to the more in-camera look of Star Trek The Motion Picture. The USS Reliant is a classic design and makes good use of the design aesthetic of the Motion Picture refit Enterprise design.

But all these things that I saw back in 1982 and still see today are all window dressing of course. What makes this film work are the characters and the story. The story was well developed. Though too bad Madelyn Rhue was not in the film, at least in a flash back of their first days on Ceti Alpha. The only thing that still bothers me in the back of my mind is why Khan is so mad at Kirk. The idea was Khan was happy that Kirk would let Khan and his people go on Ceti Alpha where he could build a new life and tame a world. I don’t think Kirk was expected to check up on them. But maybe there was a plan in place that was agreed on off screen. So I can let that one go.

As I said, the characters are all working and the actors do very well. The fan reviews in 1982 praised William Shatner, he really delivers a great performance as Kirk. Perhaps partly from Meyer beating him down. Though I’m not sure, Shatner was pretty good in The Motion Picture. It was great to see the cast shine in this movie! Looking back, they look young! But back then they looked older because at that time, all we had was TOS. No bloody TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. It was truely the only Star Trek so we young fans were eating it up and loving it!

I am now ready and enthusiastic to see Star Trek 3 next weekend.
 
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KPmusmag

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I wanted to follow up my post from yesterday about my feeling of reticence on revisiting the TOS Star Trek films after Star Trek The Motion Picture. It was not meant to be negative or give off a vibe that I did not like them. Back in the day, as I posted above, I loved them and eagerly awaited for news of a new movie and anticipating the premieres! I’ve seen them countless times!

In thinking about it, it does seem like Star Trek 2.0 and maybe that’s part of it. It’s not the same, it’s not the original series. But given that 10 years had passed from 1969 to 1979, the characters had to be shown in a different place in their lives and the first movie did that very well. The second film picks up at some point that’s not defined and the rest of the series carry’s on in that time line.

The recent posts with all the love for Star Trek 3 and its fortieth anniversary has had me reconsidering its time to finally re-visit the TOS films. I expect to recieve the Steelbook 4K blu ray of Star Trek 3 this coming week. But before I see that, I need to see Star Trek 2: The Roth of Khan. Sorry, since Shatner semi-jokingly called it that way from his Canadian roots on the Merv Griffin show in 1982, it’s stuck with me.

Also as I’ve been on a journey to re-visit Star Trek TNG episodes that I rarely watch, this made sense! So last night, I finally watched Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan on the 4K blu ray and for the first time, on a large OLED display I upgraded to a few years ago. So it was a great way to re-visit the film for the first time in 4K.

I’ve seen this film so many times, I have a lot of the dialogue still memorized. But some dialogue wasn’t as readily on my tongue. I did enjoy my viewing a lot. I knew what was coming, so the ending doesn’t hurt as much as it used to. And I think over time, I didn’t like that these major characters had to make these sacrifices. But it was part of the theme of the film, so it had resonance. The score was great, though I missed Goldsmith. But I did remember when I first saw the movie in the theater, I was happy to hear the Alexander Courage theme. The score can soar and raise the emotions and then scare and make you sad. It is a great Star Trek film.

I also experienced nostalgia and reminisced what I thought and felt when I saw the film the very first time. I did not like the change in the fonts used in the titles and credits. Why not use the font from the first film? I thought the new naval themed uniforms that Meyer wanted were cool back then, but over time, I’ve been less favorable of them. They are stylized. Amd in that sense, very much in line with TOS. But incongruous for a film that followed The Motion Picture. I never like Fletcher’s designs for the civilian clothing in any of the TOS films. Not in 1982 or today. ☺️ (Buster Brown on Chekov in Star Trek 3 especially)

The lower budget of this film often shows and I noticed it right away in 1982. Some examples are the corridors outside of the Simulator Room. As Kirk and Spock walk out in the corridor and discuss the best of times, that set, while a good looking set, looks incomplete. The view out the windows looks like a blue painted wall and as Kirk and Spock stop near the doorway, there is a forced perspective miniature placed in front of them to create the illusion of depth and a larger set. It mostly works and I didn’t even know it was a miniature until later years. IIRC, this was the case, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Also on Regula One, there is the use of obviously rental props that looks like computer banks with flashing lights. Though the central part of the set with the arch is a nice piece. But that monitor is a CRT with a box built around it looks like just that. The genesis cave and associated Genesis device was all great.

On the upside, the effects by ILM are great. Though they take on the “ILM” look as opposed to the more in-camera look of Star Trek The Motion Picture. The USS Reliant is a classic design and makes good use of the design aesthetic of the Motion Picture refit Enterprise design.

But all these things that I saw back in 1982 and still see today are all window dressing of course. What makes this film work are the characters and the story. The story was well developed. Though too bad Madelyn Rhue was not in the film, at least in a flash back of their first days on Ceti Alpha. The only thing that still bothers me in the back of my mind is why Khan is so mad at Kirk. The idea was Khan was happy that Kirk would let Khan and his people go on Ceti Alpha where he could build a new life and tame a world. I don’t think Kirk was expected to check up on them. But maybe there was a plan in place that was agreed on off screen. So I can let that one go.

As I said, the characters are all working and the actors do very well. The fan reviews in 1982 praised William Shatner, he really delivers a great performance as Kirk. Perhaps partly from Meyer beating him down. Though I’m not sure, Shatner was pretty good in The Motion Picture. It was great to see the cast shine in this movie! Looking back, they look young! But back then they looked older because at that time, all we had was TOS. No bloody TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. It was truely the only Star Trek so we young fans were eating it up and loving it!

I am now ready and enthusiastic to see Star Trek 3 next weekend.

Great post, well said. FWIW I did not take your comments as negative, just as your perspective. And the movies - especially II forward - are different from TOS and I remember my parents (big fans of TOS) saying as much at the time.
 

ScottRE

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I'm in a Star Trek mood today. A couple season 2 episodes tonight---not sure which to pick. Any suggestions?
Well, The Doomsday Machine is my all time favorite Star Trek story. Literally, franchise wide. So I will always suggest that.

Journey to Babel and The Ultimate Computer are also great space-bound episodes.

Bread and Circuses is also a good adventure with biting satire.
 

Osato

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Mirror, Mirror, The Doomsday Machine or Metamorphosis. I like Metamorphosis because it’s very reminiscent of first season episodes that taught our characters something. One of my favorites. There’s so many Season Two episodes to chose from!
Agreed I’m slowly working on season 2 with my sons. I think Patterns of force is our next one so it jumped out in my mind.
 

Bryan^H

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Yep, I loved STAR TREK III as well. There's just so much going on simultaneously that it's hard to be bored.

You've got:
- Bringing the Enterprise back to Earth with McCoy acting strange.
- Klingons looking for Genesis info
- Sarek explaining the Katra
- Saavik and David landing on Genesis
- The mothballing of the Enterprise
- McCoy looking for passage and getting arrested
- Saavik and David finding young Spock
- Klingons trying to capture Enterprise and the destruction thereof
- Young Spock growing older quickly, Pon Farr with Saavik
- Our crew fighting back and the destruction of Genesis
- Taking command of the Klingon ship and heading to Vulcan
- The reconstitution of Spock on Vulcan.

I find it to be a very satisfying movie.
I love "The Search for Spock"
Patterns of force!
Honestly, I haven't watched this one since I bought the DVD set so many years ago. Nice choice.
Mirror, Mirror, The Doomsday Machine or Metamorphosis. I like Metamorphosis because it’s very reminiscent of first season episodes that taught our characters something. One of my favorites. There’s so many Season Two episodes to chose from!
I love "Metamorphosis". One of my favorites. This was the last classic Trek episode I watched not too long ago. But 'Mirror, Mirror" and 'The Doomsday Machine' are on the list for tonight or tomorrow.
The Immunity Syndrome - underrated bottle episode with some cool visual effects.
Absolutely! Another I haven't watched in quite some time.

OK, thank you everyone. 4 great choices for tonight, and tomorrow. I have the day off tomorrow, so I can chillax and Trek out.!!
 

Harry-N

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That STAR TREK III theater program that was distributed at the premiere is apparently pretty common on eBay. Here's just one example (not mine).

I was going to scan mine, but these eBay sellers already did it.
 

Nelson Au

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That STAR TREK III theater program that was distributed at the premiere is apparently pretty common on eBay. Here's just one example (not mine).

I was going to scan mine, but these eBay sellers already did it.
That’s very cool. I never collected those programs and I don’t recall them being available at the theaters I went to. I might have to search for them. :)
 

Nelson Au

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As it’s a long weekend, I decided to carry on with my Star Trek TOS film series re-visit with Star Trek 3 a week earlier then I planned. Like I did with Star Trek 2, I watched it on 4K blu ray.

The film does really move along at a good pace. I had forgotten, Greg Morris’s son, Phil appears on the bridge as a young officer who asks Admiral Kirk if they would get a hero’s welcome upon returning to Space Dock. And seeing that instantly reminded me of Miri and how he appeared as one of the kids. He must have been 9 or 10. The other impression I had not felt before is that as the Enterprise is returning to Space Dock at the start of the film, it felt like Star Trek TOS in that Kirk is in command and the bridge crew are back at their posts doing their job.

The story is put together pretty well. I don’t think I ever determined if Spock’s Mindmeld with McCoy at the end of Star Trek 2 was pre-determined then as a way to place Spock’s Katra into McCoy. Or if it was just an idea that Nimoy had to leave a way to bring Spock back. My recollection is that with each film, it was probably the last in everyone’s mind. So there was no guarantee or plan for Star Trek 3. The Katra was a good idea that gave them a way to create a “backup” of Spock. I do recall that as Star Trek 2 was being made, Nimoy found the story and how his character was used was an enjoyable experience and he now didn’t want to end it for Spock after all. So he was much more interested in making more Star Trek. So that “Remember” scene must have been added to give them a way back.

Stealing the Enterprise is an Amok Time call back. Kirk does what he has to do to save his friend. As Sarek says though, at what cost. Kirk never wanted to loose the Enterprise, but he was willing to sacrifice it. As for Kirk’s son, on this viewing, I had flash backs to first seeing Kirk’s reaction and falling back against his chair. It was a strong moment. I did wonder if the mic was still on and Kruge heard him say he killed his son. He takes a moment to gather himself and puts together a plan. Once on Genesis, it was quite a set of events for Kirk that was likely a lot of great stuff for Shatner to get to do that felt again like TOS. I could not help but this time focus on Shatner’s performance. He’s likely mourning the loss of the Enterprise as they watch it burn up in the atmosphere. Then as they approach Saavik and Spock and the Klingon, Kirk doesn’t waste any time and shoots the Klingon! Then he has a private moment to mourn his son. It’s so quick. Then Kirk does it again and finds a way to save everyone.

Once on Vulcan, I always felt the re-fusion sequence has a mystical feel to it. The way the maidens are there with the raised right arms felt very theatrical for example. Dame Judith Anderson does a decent job as Celia Lovsky kind of character. I like how the film ends once Spock is re-integrated with his new body and begins to remember. Nice way to end the film on a high note.

My impressions of the film are similar to what I thought back in the day. There’s still some low budget-ness to some of the sets. As I recall, as it was a Harve Bennett production, there is a TV budget kind of feel. The higher quality image from the 4K blu ray really makes those limitations more obvious. But Star Trek 2 and 3 benefits from the existing Enterprise sets and some costume and items from Star Trek The Motion Picture. I always look for the Epsilon Nine model that is used as wall art in the officers lounge where Kirk meets with Admiral Morrow. :) But they did do a very nice job with the observation lounge when the wrecked Enterprise pulls into Space Dock. Star Trek TNG made good use of that footage.

As far as Christopher Lloyd‘s Kruge, he did a fine job. He was ruthless and did what he did to get Genesis. It was funny how he just strangles the giant microbes that are around Spock’s torpedo tube. I liked the pairing of David and Saavik. That worked well. And on this viewing, I did not miss Kirsty Alley, I don’t think I ever did. I thought Robin Curtis did a great job. It’s too bad Alley did not return, I imagine she might have shown more emotion as I recall Saavik was not fully Vulcan. Curtis plays as a full Vulcan including the ears. I liked her line where David says to Esteban that they need to beam down to see what the lifesign reading is, and she says, “or who”.

I always get a kick out of Captain Esteban. Such a by-the-book Captain. :). But I remember him for his role on The Bob Newhart Show as a high profile psychologist that Bob knows.

I have not as far as I can recall, done a back to back viewing of Star Trek 2 and 3. I likely have. I’ve had to have! But likely years ago. On this viewing, it was a very enjoyable journey. These two films really feel like a two parter episode. Star Trek 4 The Voyage Home feels very different as they wanted to lighten up on the next film. So I’m thinking I may take a break as those two films are a great pair, and then Star Trek 4 is a romp that finishes the arc. Having had such a long break from seeing the TOS films Star Trek 2 and 3 was a good thing for me. It made revisiting them very enjoyable. I knew what happens, but it was fun to re-see it.
 

Nelson Au

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I was able to get programs from the first 4 movies practically mint a few years ago. I love when things which mean a lot to me for nostalgia and sentimental value have very little financial worth. Makes it so much easter to get them.
Scott, yes, I did some searching and the programs are very reasonably priced!
 

Josh Steinberg

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I don’t think I ever determined if Spock’s Mindmeld with McCoy at the end of Star Trek 2 was pre-determined then as a way to place Spock’s Katra into McCoy. Or if it was just an idea that Nimoy had to leave a way to bring Spock back.

From what Nimoy has said in interviews and also in his own book and his appearance in Shatner’s book, they wrapped principal photography without “remember,” and as they were putting the film together and doing test screenings, audiences were loving the thing but walking out devastated at the finality of the ending. With the movie coming out better than expected, Harve Bennett felt they might actually have a hit on their hand, and so it was apparently Bennett that went up to Nimoy with the question, “is there anything we can do that you can think of, anything we can put in, that might leave a dangling thread that could be picked up later?” and that’s where the idea to do the little insert with Nimoy putting his hand on Kelley’s face with the word “remember” dubbed in came from. And that’s also when they went and shot the coffin on the Genesis planet and recorded Nimoy doing the “space, the final frontier” voiceover. They didn’t establish exactly what all of that was going to mean at the time and it could have meant anything. It could have been something as simple as having the next movie begin with McCoy passing along a farewell message that Spock had left him, or it could have been as complex as being Spock back with a new, younger actor playing the part. They didn’t really know until Nimoy won the director’s job for III, when Bennett then sat down to script it. It was apparently Bennett that later came up with the actual explanation of what happened in that moment and how that would relate to bringing the character back.
 

Nelson Au

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Re: Scott’s collection of the film program books, as I looked over a few of them, I found some of the other Star Trek film promotional items offered on eBay. One item was the three tumbler drink glasses from Taco Bell. I happen to have bought those at Taco Bell at the time. Those are reasonably priced too. One of mine has a broken bottom, so there is an option to replace it.

IMG_3353.jpeg
 

Bryan^H

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Well, The Doomsday Machine is my all time favorite Star Trek story. Literally, franchise wide. So I will always suggest that.

Journey to Babel and The Ultimate Computer are also great space-bound episodes.

Bread and Circuses is also a good adventure with biting satire.
Finished my mini Trek marathon with 'Bread and Circuses'. I liked it much better than my previous viewing years ago. Thanks.

Great couple of days with my mini Trek marathon from Season 2. Will try this again next year with some season one choices from all you great Trekkies!
Live Long And Prosper Star Trek GIF
 

Harry-N

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I think from so many years of seeing STAR TREK episodes over and over again, we tend to stick to our favorites. When "The Doomsday Machine" or "The Trouble With Tribbles" or "Amok Time", or any other favored episode comes on, many of us tend to watch it. If we're looking to play an episode, it's likely one that we've favored over the years.

But one thing I learned is that nearly every episode has something worthwhile about it, and watching one that is usually skipped, can be a pleasant experience, especially the worthwhile part.
 

Josh Steinberg

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There are a bunch of late second season and third season episodes that I haven’t seen as many zillions of times as the rest of the series due to what aired more or less frequently when I was a kid and/or that the video store didn’t have, so to this day they still feel “new” to me even though I’ve now owned copies for decades and cycled through them many times.
 

OttoIsHere

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I think from so many years of seeing STAR TREK episodes over and over again, we tend to stick to our favorites. When "The Doomsday Machine" or "The Trouble With Tribbles" or "Amok Time", or any other favored episode comes on, many of us tend to watch it. If we're looking to play an episode, it's likely one that we've favored over the years.

But one thing I learned is that nearly every episode has something worthwhile about it, and watching one that is usually skipped, can be a pleasant experience, especially the worthwhile part.

There are a bunch of late second season and third season episodes that I haven’t seen as many zillions of times as the rest of the series due to what aired more or less frequently when I was a kid and/or that the video store didn’t have, so to this day they still feel “new” to me even though I’ve now owned copies for decades and cycled through them many times.
In the last month I'm very much picking out episodes I haven't seen in years (due to time constraints and recent purchases, right now I'm only watching one TOS episode every week or so). From the second season I've watched "Catspaw", "I, Mudd" and "A Piece of the Action". All somewhat whimsical episodes but I enjoyed each one for what it was, and I'm glad I revisited each one. As Josh said, it's been so long that they all had a bit of "new" to me feel.

From the third season I watched "Turnabout Intruder" (I know that episode is universally disliked but watching it as a slice of 60's TV I thought it was entertaining) and "Day of the Dove", which I actually have always liked quite a bit but realized I hadn't revisited in a few years. I always enjoy seeing Michael Ansara. The last was "Spectre of the Gun", and I fell asleep in my three attempts to watch (usually I watch these episodes before I go to bed). I know this is a generally well liked episode but for some reason between the pacing (which feels very disjointed to me) and the low-budget minimalist set I just can't make it through (I've also had the same issue staying awake through season two's "Wolf in the Fold" over the years, and I probably have not even tried to watch that one in fifteen years). I think if "Spectre of the Gun" had been filmed using an actual outdoor western set I might be more engaged. I've always skipped this episode on rewatches but I'll try again soon and hopefully watch it to conclusion. . .

And just for reference I've been watching this show since I was a kid in the late 70's and this will always be my favorite TV show no matter what. The first digital media I ever purchased was the original release when they sold two episodes at a time on DVD for $20 each back in 1999-2000; it was this show that actually prodded me to purchase my first DVD player. I think I've purchased the series three times since then; the last time was the 50th anniversary Blu-Ray box set (including TAS and the six motion pictures) back in 2016.
 

ScottRE

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I'm just coming to the end of a "production number order" rewatch of the original series. A few episodes I haven't seen in years. A number are better than I remembered. A few...well, let's just say I probably won't be revisiting I, Mudd or A Piece of the Action any time before I die.
 

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