Sanford & Son:Season 4 on March 30 (1 Viewer)

[Chris:L]

Gord, isn't the purpose of competition to make money? I THINK SO.

And if they're so concerned about being bare-bones then they might as well sell their rights of the show to FOX or some other corporation. Then that company should do a rerelease campaign with special features.

One of the many reasons fans aren't buying AITF DVDs is because of that simple fact. Bare bones!

Personally, I think Columbia TriStar is one of the dumbest ******' companies.

They weren't being so cheap with the release of The Dick Van Dyke Show.

Their process of releasing the AITF DVDs astounds me. And they wonder why they're not selling very well. I'm infuriated. I'm 19 and I think I know how to do better commercializing than them. I'm infuriated.

 

[Dave H]

Sanford and Son DVDs are entirely bare-bones, so why are fans buying them?

The marketing for AITF isn't any different for that of Sanford and Son, yet, Sanford is selling better. There is a greater DEMAND for the series and that is why they are selling more.

 

[Chris:L]

Maybe because S&S is black and AITF is white. Reverse discrimination.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Wrong company, the Dick Van Dyke Show was done by image Entertainment and not by Columbia Tristar.

Now let me ask you this, what if CTS did the same kind of marketing as say Fox or the WB, how exactly would that be any different? I mean isn't a goal of good marketing to stand out? Well, they're standing out, they're offering a variety of shows with a low price point no other studio is doing that to the extent of CTS. Seems like a good way to stand out to me. Obviously people are finding these DVDs because MWC has to have sold pretty good since they're already putting out season 2, same with King of Queens and other sets.

Plus, if your CTS, and your trying to sell a show like AITF or the Jeffersons or S&S where are you going to advertise? Not on networks like NBC/CBS/ABC/Fox, your going to advertise to people that you know will be more likely to buy them by putting them on a network like TV Land or Nick at Nite.

Good marketing doesn't always mean big billboards, plenty of commercial time and newspaper ads, good marketing is making the public aware of your product, which they obviously must have done, because afterall they're still putting out these sets, and doing quite well. Besides whose to say that CTS putting a ton of money in to the promotion of AITF or any other show will increase sales. People will look at it and say, do I like the show well enough to own it or not? Its that simple.

 

[Chris:L]

Good Marketing? COMMERCIALS! COMMERCIALS! COMMERCIALS! COMMERCIALS! I'll even spell it out for you. C-O-M-M-E-R-C-I-A-L-S. Airtime brings in bucks. I don't even know where to begin on this argument. I can talk until I'm blue in face defending my favorite tv show. First off, if I were CTS, I'd change policies. Second of all, I'd create a commercial!!!!!! The problem with you is, you think sales will increase by word of mouth alone. You must be part of the dumb corporation.

MWC and King Of Queens are more recent shows. People still pay attention to those tv shows. Shows like AITF, S&S, and The Jeffersons need stronger marketing to get the attention. Recognition is only strong when a number of people notice it. The only way people will notice something is if it's thrown in their face... Barney Miller is being released onto dvd and their promotion is on boxes of cereal. I bet they don't promote Barney Miller on Cheerios. No, they'll pick an offbrand. Get it?

Promotion. Recognition. Notice.

I bet if you do a commercial of AITF DVDs and play it during a Superbowl or an anticipated episode of a tv show, I'll bet it'll get recognition. The TV is the largest medium in the media. I'm sure each home is equipped with at least one TV set. IS ANYONE LISTENING?

I'll post more later.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

What did I say above about commercial advertising?


Oh yeah that's right I said...
Then don't sit here telling us how you'd do it, send CTS a proposal and a resume. I mean seriously, if you think that your grand plan of advertising AITF during the Superbowl or the series finale of Friends will work then by all means, let them know about it. I'm sure the acconting department will get a real kick out of it.

BTW, welcome to HTF, and I'm not being sarcastic I really do welcome you to HTF, its always good to have a new voice in the discussions, new prospectives whether or not I agree with them do have value.

 

[Chris:L]

It doesn't make sense that such a tv show as AITF is selling so poorly. The fault can't be the fans. According to The Wall Street Journal, "in its heyday, All in the Family was watched regularly by nearly one-third of all Americans." I started to think that the only people who were buying the DVD sets were only the fans that knew about the release. Which then led me to believe that there was a lack of advertising.

AITF DVDs aren't selling that well and it can't be because of the fans. There has to be a reason. And all I'm doing is trying to figure out that reason. Again, it seems pretty fishy that such a show as AITF is selling so poorly. Is anyone else as boggled as I am?

 

[Gord Lacey]

Chris, I hate to tell you this, but sometimes fans of a series have their judgement clouded. Talk to any "La Femme Nikita" fan and they'll tell you that there are millions of people that want to buy the show on DVD, yet the first season sales were low, and the second season set was iffy for a long time.

While All in the Family was popular when it was on TV, that doesn't mean that it'll translate into DVD sales. The reverse is true as well - just look at how well Family Guy did in the ratings compared to how well it sold on DVD. I used to watch Growing Pains and Full House when they were on TV, but I don't think I'd consider buying those on DVD (I'm not knocking these shows, I just wouldn't buy them on DVD).

I think we have to trust that Columbia TriStar knows what they're doing and what's best for their products. We might not agree with everything that's done, but we also don't see the entire picture. They have very smart and talented people that work there and I'd have to guess that they know their product the best, and how to make money off it.

Gord

 

[KevA]

You would think All in the Family DVD sales would be excellent, simply considering the legendary status of the show. Is it not considered one of the greatest sitcoms in television history? (When lists of the greatest TV shows of all time are made, All in the Family is often near the top of the list.) I'll certainly buy every season. In any event, as per Gord's post, it's something of a mystery what sells well (and what doesn't) in terms of TV shows on DVD.

On another note: Although it's bizarre that All in the Family has no Canadian distribution (almost everything else on Region 1 does, with rare exceptions), a great alternative is amazon.ca. They have very good prices on AITF DVDs. The B&M price (as a so-called "import") is ridiculously high in comparison.

 

[Chris:L]

Gord, the following message is in response to your message to me.

Can you explain to me the sales of The Simpons and M*A*S*H in translation? When a TV show is released on DVD it's from the reaction of the demand from the fans who want to own it on DVD, am I not mistaken? If fans didn't want to see their tv show on dvd they wouldn't be considered fans, now would they? If you go to the Sitcoms Online Message Board, you'll find out on many sub-boards of the main board that there are posts called "' ' First Season?" or "when is ' ' coming to DVD?", and etc. So your explanation about the translation is false... TO AN EXTENT. Correct me if I'm wrong. It would be amusing to see if you can try and back yourself out of this corner.

 

[Dave H]

Haha. How is reverse discrimination selling more copies? That makes no sense.

 

[Steve...O]

I disagree. Remember Mary Tyler Moore? The special features on that set was one of the reasons the price was too high which contributed to poor sales of that set. "Bare bones" for vintage shows doesn't bother me that much since I am more concerned about getting good quality uncut episodes than I am about some superficial documentary or rambling commentary.

Of course one can't overlook the fact the market has been flooded with DVD and TV on DVD product over the last year. Something is bound to fall through the cracks because consumers can't possibly support everything that is released. Something's got to give.

My humble 2 cents worth.

Steve

 

[Gord Lacey]

Chris, how many people are posting about this? 20-50...maybe 100 or 200. Yes, it looks like there are tons of people posting about something, just like in any fan forum you're going to find that most of the people in there would buy anything related to the show. Those are the "sure-sales" but what about everyone else? How many people that don't post in a message board will buy it? That's the magic question. Asking in a fan forum how many people will buy something isn't an accurate representation of sales. That's like walking into a bar and asking how many people there are drinkers, and then trying to use that data to determine the percentage of drinkers in the population.

I have people that email me all the time saying "When will ____ come out? Me and all my friends will buy it so they'll make a lot of money!" Just because a small grouup of friends will buy it doesn't mean that everyone else will.

As for being backed into a corner...I don't think I ever was.

Gord

 

[David Lambert]

Also a quick point-out to Chris that just because someone posts a note on a message board (or votes for it at Gord's site) that they intend to buy a TV show if it ever comes to DVD, that doesn't mean they actually buy it.


One of the most telling moments to me about whether AitF would sell a lot of copies was this: at my paying job, back when AitF S1 was about to come out and I had gotten the assignment to review the set for TVShowsOnDVD, I was bragging to co-workers about the release. Several of them thought I was nuts to be happy about the release. One of them had a conversation with me about it, and the gist of that made it into my review:




I find it very plausible that sales were low because of how people mis-remember this show.

As for the "black vs. white" issue of AitF vs. S&S/Jeffersons, it ties right back into my point. If you are a non-white that is buying a TV-on-DVD set, would YOU be quick to purchase Archie Bunker?

Finally, just as with Larry Sanders Show, AitF-S1 suffered from being 1 of the first 2 season sets that Columbia released, which they made the mistake of pricing way too high compared to prices of later releases. Someone recently pointed out the current SRP situations with AitF:

* All In The Family Season 1: 3 DVDs/13 episodes $39.95
* All In The Family Season 2: 3 DVDs/24 episodes $29.95

I've passed this on to Columbia a couple of weeks ago, but gotten no response.


I think that the mass-market approach that Columbia took for this release was the mistake, though. This show would have done better with smaller runs, more collectible packaging and extras appropriate to that, with perhaps a higher price point but clearly giving enough value to justify it, and sold less through Target and Wal-Mart and more through Best Buy and Borders.

 

[Chris:L]

Geez, I feel like a dumb***. But on the otherside of the coin you have to realize that these fans are so dedicated to their show that they'll go out on a branch, supporting the corporation that owns the television by spreading the word like wildfire to all the people they know and tell them, "Check out this show." or, "Remember when I talked about this show? It's coming to DVD. Get it. It's funny." But when fans of a show find out that their beloved show is not sellling well then it's extremely tragic for them. They fear that their show will be canceled. The MTM fans have already experienced this. And I'm sure that other fans of other shows have experienced this as well. The Star Trek fans will never have to worry about such a tragedy because there's always an abundance set out for them. I'm sure a Star Trek movie is being written as I write this message. But I'm not necessarily a Star Trek fan and fans don't need to worry about that. But when you have a controversial show such as AITF, you know that America was divided over this show back when it aired. So, when you know that season sets are coming out, you have a fear that continuing releases of the show's fate is walking down a razor blade being decided by this one sale profit. If profits do good, then it'll continue. If profits do bad, decapitate it.

When I Love Lucy was released by season set on DVD, I wasn't worried. I knew the set would do well. Why? Everyone on Earth loves Lucy. It's a default, hands-down asusmption. An assumption that's true.

I hope you can understand where I was coming from for the entire time I posted on this topic.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

You shouldn't feel that way. I won't speak for most of this, but in the fact that you assume that people on the internet are talking about a release so it will translate to big numbers in the public, well your not the first person to make that assumption and you won't be the last to make that assumption.


The thing that I've noticed regarding internet forums is that often times the people get in to this mindset of well gee, a lot of people on HTF are talking about this release, so it will do huge numbers, but it doesn't always go that way. I used to post on a lot of forums dealing with pro wrestling and the mentality was still the same, the people that are the most passionate about home theater stuff post here, but that's still only a small segment of the overall population.

You brought up some interesting points, but I definitely wouldn't call you dumb.

 

[David Lambert]

Chris, I agree with Casey. You're fine.

Just think about this: guys like Gord and I think about these things a lot more than most people do. So we get more insight into how this all works.

Then there are the studio employees who's very livelihoods depend on thinking about this stuff. We don't often understand their decisions, but then again we can't possibly have the insight and amount of information available to us as they have at their fingertips.

Scary, isn't it? I'll tell you something scarier, and it's not exactly a secret:

The bottom-line motivation of "money" doesn't always translate into pure sales, especially in these bigger corporations. Sometimes it's about saving pennies by eliminating inserts, or compressing data onto fewer discs or using cheaper packaging. Sometimes it manifests itself in other ways...like reducing the number of people who work in a department. Save headcount, save payroll. The output suffers due to fewer resources, but it may take a long time for management to realize that, much less change that.


Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious.

 

[Chris:L]

David, first off I'd like to say that if it wasn't for Norman Lear the developer of AITF from the British show Til Death Do Us Part, the progress of African Americans into the tv vein would've stayed at the same pace. Norman Lear allowed shows like Diff'rent Strokes, The Jeffersons, etc, etc, etc. The 70s primetime lineup was domineered by the J.P. Morgan of television--Norman Lear. Most of the shows on primetime in the 70s were products of Norman Lear.

Now, I'm not expecting blacks to buy All in the Family because of that fact. I just wanted to point something out. I don't know if it helps much.

 

[Andrew Radke]

Sorry to somewhat change the course of this debate, but you can add "King of Queens" to the list of sets lacking Canadian distribution. I only started watching the show in syndication a few months ago and love it. I'd love to get my hands on this series.

 

[David Lambert]

Chris, right on all counts. In fact, I could go much further than that into Lear's influence and vision. However, this is not the time or place for it, nor do I have enough time to do it justice.

Besides, you're also right that it doesn't change my point much. If your a non-white who feels insulted by the way Archie Bunker talks and acts, then you won't buy the AitF sets just to see him get educated or get his occassional and well-deserved come-uppance. He does develop as a character over time, but it was slowly...the producers didn't want to lose the conflict he represented.

It was a funny and entertaining show, but very full of moralizing. M*A*S*H was, too...but it gave you more "ha-ha" than "be a better person", whereas on AitF it was almost the other way around (and a lot of the ha-ha was a side effect of the "lesson"). Given that, it's no wonder that M*A*S*H sells better on DVD than AitF. But AitF could still sell and be profitable, if it was handled differently. IMHO.


Okay, Andrew's right. We've spent way too much time on this subject. Chris, go ahead and get in the last word if you want to. I think I've said all I have to say.