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Discussion in 'Displays' started by Shane Morales, Jul 22, 2003.
In another thread, Bob McElfresh wrote:
You'd want to try it both ways ... as always since there is more to progressive scan than just de-interlacing.
Progressive signals are often cleaner coming out of the player and have higher resolution. Putting a processor to a degraded signal will never help you recover the missing resolution.
Try it yourself.
I have the 50" Samsung N series and the X1 which uses the same Farajuda chip. The Samsung and X1 both looked better when I fed them an interlaced signal from the 2900. This was also true of the Sony S9000ES and the other 3 lower end players in the house. THEN!!!
I sent back the 2900 and picked up a Kenwood 6050 for $250 and it looks much better when I feed the progressive signal. The Kenwood has the Farajuda chip and simply does a better job although I am not sure why. Whatever the reason the Kenwood has the best picture I have ever seen from a progressive player. It also sounded as good on DVD-A which was another big surprise.
It really comes down to how good a job the player does with progressive. The Farajuda in these TV's kicks butt. I suspect that a player with an equal chip may do a better job however because that is pretty much it's only purpose in life. Less interference or something... just a guess though.
Well keep in mind that many Progressive Scan DVD players are in the $200 price range. Is the Dennon unit really $900?
The Samsung should shine with standard-definition CATV & Satallite signals - that's what the Farajuda chip is built for. The fact that interlace from a DVD player looks superior to progressive is kind of a side-effect.
The world is turning to progressive/HD video. I'd still recommend a progressive-scan DVD player even if you buy the Samsung. No gurantee that the Samsung will be your ONLY television or the next owner of the DVD player will have a Sammy.
Yeah, the Denon 2900 retails for about $900-$1000, a bit less online. I picked this unit because it's supposed to have a great progressive image and I'm willing to pay $$$ for that. But why pay $900 for something you're not going to use to full effect, right?
Doug's post hints at the possibility that DVD players with a Faroudja (how do you pronounce that, anyway?) chip gives the best results?
I dunno... now I'm kinda bummed.
Here's some interesting info I found out about the Samsung DLP (56" specifically):
Composite video in 3 (1 Side, 2 Rear)
DVD component video in 1 Set (Y, Pb, Pr) 480i, 480P
HDTV /DTV component video input 2 (Y, Pb, Pr) 1080i, 720P, 480P
I got that from the Samsung tech sheet for the DLP. Doesn't that say that it'll take progressive input?
Or am I just reading this whole thing wrong and is the real issue that the Faroudja chip inside the Samsung DLP won't work it's magic on a progressive input because it's already been converted from interlaced to progressive by the DVD player? Is that what Bob meant?
The Samsung can take either signal. The question is does the chip in the sammy do a better job of converting than the chip in the DVD player.
It varies by DVD player. The sammy has a very high quality chip that in many if not most cases does a better job than XYZ brand DVD player. All you can do is try the player and determine which looks best to you. I tried a number of players and found the Sammy did a better job of converting than the DVD player. the only one I tried that looked better feeding the Sammy a progressive signal was the Kenwood.
It just happens that the Kenwood has the same chip in it that the Sammy uses which may explain this. I may be off but I think there would be less interference in the DVD player than the TV thus allowing a better picture. That is only a guess though.
Quality of picture is at least somewhat subjective though so you may have a different experience when using the same combination of TV and player.
Ah... so, really, if I'm getting the Denon 2900, which uses the SiI504 chip, I'm getting the two best deinterlaces and I can pick and choose between them. Good, I'm so releived, mostly because I'm just dead tired of shopping for home theater stuff. I just want to get it and enjoy it.
Shane, if you already have a DVD player, even if it is non-progressive, use that one first.
Later on, wait for better models of DVD players that has a DVI output. DVI, according to a lot of Bravo D1, Samsung HD931, and Momitsu V880 owners give the best picture quality, much better than high-end progressive players that only has compuenent outputs.
I use a Pioneer DV47 DVD player for my HLN507W and i tried both Progressive mode (using component input 2) mode and Interlaced mode (component input 1). I agree with the others that 480i is better. The Samsung does a great job doing the de-interlacing and converting to 720p.
Man, this is making my head hurt...
Ok, let's see if I have this straight. Correct me if I'm wrong, please:
1. The Faroudja chip in the Samsung DLP kicks ass so all I need for DVD is to pass 480i to the TV. Since I don't have a DVD player (available, that is) I'll want to buy a cheap (but not crappy) DVD player. $100 should do it.
2. I don't need a seperate CD Player because I can play normal audio CDs on the $100 DVD player and pass the sound (via digital optical) to my Denon 3803 for sound processing. If I am satisfied with the audio processing that my Denon receiver provides there's no need for me to by a seperate CD player - unless DVD-A, HDCD, SACD, etc, becomes an issue later.
3. Get a good DVI capable DVD player later on.
Correct? If so, I just saved $800!
I wouldn'y go out and buy a $100 player to go with that TV. I do think the Kenwood would be a great buy at $250.
One thing to remember is crap in, crap out. None of the players I have tried were super el cheapo and all of them put out a very good interlaced signal. There are some great deals out there if you are willing to do your research.
Haha! My answers...
1. Yes. Cheap but not crappy. I doubt you'll find anything that is not crappy, $100 and below. The Panasonic XP30 is around $250 and it is a good player accoring to some sites I visit.
2. Yes, I use my Pioneer DVD player for music now as well and feed it to my Marantz SR7200. I bought a Nakamichi CD player, but I feel it is not worth it and I'm trying to sell it now so I can get a DVI enabled DVD player.
However, why don't you simply get a DVD player with DVI outputs now, and use that for both DVD and Music? It will only cost $200 to $300 and you can enjoy great 720p DVDs now rather than later. (Or rather digitally upconverted 480i to 720p DVDs)
Later, when a universal player comes out with DVI, then you can upgrade your DVD player. By that time, you'll have better quality, better features, and with DVD-Audio, SACD, or both included!
Check the Bravo D1 ($200), Momitsu V880 ($210), or Samsung HD931 ($300).
This link to Extreme Tech - Samsung DLP is about a reviewer who bought and returned 5 different HDTV's. The one he kept - the Samsung DLP. Lots of good information here about the samsung unit and the internal chips.
Thanks a bunch for all the links and stuff. Very helpful. I did a bunch of research and review reading about the various DVI players and pretty much decided to drop the Denon and get one. What really sealed the deal, though, was that I found out today that I have a bit less $ for my HT purchases than I had planned.
I ordered the Bravo. I found that V was founded by the guy who setup of Princeton Graphics. They make great, inexpensive monitors (I have two). Having had repeated good experiences with his last company I have high hopes for V. Plus, it's $100 less than the samsung and it doesn't have that lame copy protection thing on it.
Perhaps later, when I have more $, I'll get a nice panny or something if I find the Bravo lacking in some area.
So far the nice folks on this forum have saved me about $3000.
To really muddy up the waters, how about the Samsung DVD-HD931 that uses DVI output to the television? It scales up to 720p/1080i using the Faroudja FLI2310 and Samsung’s DNIe chip. It costa about $300, but then a cable will be another $100. This player along with Samsung’s DLP set is one of only a few ways to get digital output without converting to analog anywhere along the way. The question is, is the picture any better?