SACD's & DVD-A's marketshare (1 Viewer)

[Rachael B]

I got this information out of the latest issue of Sound & Vision.
CD - 94% marketshare
cassette - 5%
The last 1% is divided between vinyl, DVD-A, and SACD. Here's a quote:
"...with vinyl, of all things, easily outselling DVD-Audio and SACD combined during the first six months of 2002: 661,000 units to 92,000."
It suggests there is no SACD vs. DVD-A format war or if there is one it's against vinyl!

 

[RaulR]

Disheartening stats, but no surprise. I just wonder how much of the vinyl sales are due to the massive popularity of "scratching" among professional and would-be DJs.

 

[Marc Colella]

Not surprising.

I've always stated that DVD-A and SACD will remain a niche market (at best). People are perfectly happy with CD.

And since music sales are on a consistent decline, DVD-A and SACD are even less important to consumers - especially since DVD-Video is the hot media of choice.

I own a SACD player, and love the format... and I'd be happy enough if it survived as an audiophile niche product.

 

[Michael Gilliam]

I agree with Marc. I own both an SACD and a DVD-A player. I love both formats, for both easily best the CD. Although some CDs are better than others, I've not heard one that outpeforms the 2 new formats. While some titles, on both new formats, are weaker than others, it's nice to have the opportunity to enjoy music with better quality. Many people always ask "will it replace CDs?, or "will it have a big enough market?" First, I don't think it will replace CDs and I don't think it should or needs to. Many people, unfortunately in my opinion, do not care for quality. For those who do not care, let them be without. For those who do care, it's nice to have something better than the CD. And last but not least, although I don't dislike vinyl, neither of the 2 new formats have annoying 'scratches' and 'pops' to contend with like vinyl does. Vinyl may outsell SACD & DVD-A, but I believe it to be less of a product. Vinyl is cheaper, as are the players. Products that cost less can easily sell more units.

 

[Al B. C]

I dunno about that one.

Some of those turntables fetch an enormous price. And have you checked out the prices of LP's lately...............hmmmm?

 

[Marc Colella]

Audiophiles have clung to vinyl since the release of CDs all those years ago.
It has a small but faithful following, many of whom are either not convinced by the quality of SACD/DVD-A or are too set in their ways to convert.

I was shocked to find out that a few audiophiles I know (one's even a stereo shop owner) haven't even heard of SACD.

SACD and DVD-A find themselves in a tough spot.
Both formats are having a hard time getting in with the audiophile crowd, and are getting nowhere with the mass-market.

I agree that there isn't a Hi-Rez format war... both formats are battling against the lack of consumer interest.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Wow! where to get started?...

I was shocked to find out that a few audiophiles I know (one's even a stereo shop owner) haven't even heard of SACD.

I don't know which rock these people are hiding under but fortunately Reagan was President at the time.
As for vinyl, many love it, it sounds great, and reports of its death are greatly exaggerated as well.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I've always stated that DVD-A and SACD will remain a niche market (at best). People are perfectly happy with CD.

Perhaps, but its way too early for one to make such a call. Once a tipping point is reached, acceptance can happen fast.

People are happy with CD?

Yes, until they hear something better.

Yes, until they hear live music and wonder why the cymbals don't sound right.

Yes, until they hear DVDAs surround benefits (on certain recordings). (Surprise Kotches!)

Yes, until they hear the Super Audio of any number of recordings where even midrange systems create a realistic soundstage wiht perfect instrument tonality.

Yes, until they hear vinyl. (licorice pizzas for all!)

The point is that with the right market awareness and education, stealth entry by hybrid (see Rolling Stones), and other things, hi-rez has a good opportunity to reach the masses. Even if it is a niche, there is enough profit there and in the professional market to keep it alive for a long time.

One can always wait for one clear leader to emerge.

But you would miss some awesome music.

 

[Rachael B]

Lee, I'd feel encouraged is somebody besides Sony made stand-alone players. Half the world loves Sony and the other half hates them passionately, seemingly. Best wishes!

 

[Marc Colella]

As for mass market, what did DVD look like in 1997?

DVD-Video was a different story altogether since it was an upgrade from a tape-based system and the difference was obvious to those with average quality television sets.
It only took 1 - 1.5 years for DVD-Video to take off. It was apparent even then that it was going to win over the mass market.
After a few years, the future of SACD and DVD-A is still very doubtful.

I've made my choice with SACD, but I just don't believe that most people care enough to switch over.

 

[KeithH]

Lee said:

People are happy with CD?
Yes, until they hear something better.
Yes, until they hear live music and wonder why the cymbals don't sound right.

Lee, you must separate yourself from the overriding attitudes of the masses. Do you really think the average listener is looking for something better than the CD? To many people, the MP3 is better. Also, do you really feel that the average listener has a problem with the sound of cymbals on CDs? Let's get real.
Rachael,
Those numbers do not surprise me. I'd love to see how the folks on Audio Asylum would react to this data. Many of them seem to think that everyone is buying SACDs. :rolleyes

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I'll personally be super curious when comparisons between SACD/DVD-A and vinyl start surfacing (Michael Fremer from Stereophile, for example).

I would like to believe that *nothing* digital could touch a pure analog medium. But I could also easily believe that SACD and/or DVD-A are *close enough* to vinyl, that the problems with lps push them over the top. (Pops, clicks, RIAA freq curve, rumble, wow/flutter, distortion increase on tracks on the inside of an lp vs the outside edge, etc.)

And, I'll bet most people buying the Stones re-issues are buying them for the CD layer... But I would also bet it is stimulating some SACD hardware sales as well...

 

[Justin Lane]

And, I'll bet most people buying the Stones re-issues are buying them for the CD layer... But I would also bet it is stimulating some SACD hardware sales as well...

That's my main problem with the Stones roll-out. These titles could possibly drive new SACD sales, yet Sony has discontinued all of their decently priced audio only SACD players before the release and does not have replacements announced or available. A missed opportunity.

These numbers are lower then I expected, but not totally surprising. SACD and DVD-A are not big sellers or almost non-existent at the B&M level where most music sales take place.

J

 

[Al B. C]

Yup - Just like me!

 

[Phil A]

First of all, how did they count hybrids? Did they count them as a CD or SACD? Second, that does not take into account the Stones. According to Billboard, per last Sunday:

Hot Rocks - 12,789
Aftermath (UK) - 5,289
Between The Buttons (UK) - 3,977
Metamorphosis - 7,065
Out Of Our Heads (UK) - 3,061
Let It Bleed - 12,826
Through The Past - 4,271
Satanic - 4,567
Beggar's Banquet - 11,296
Big Hits - 5,193
Aftermath (US) - 4,248
Flower - 2,579
Get Your Ya Ya's Out - 5,024

As I said, I don't know how they would count the above, but obiously there are some buying them for the SACD layer and some for the CD layer (who might read the inserts and put an SACD player on their wish list).

 

[John Kotches]

Phil,

Combined that's nearly 83K discs, or ~6,400 per title (on average).

What did the top 10 sellers for the same week do in terms of unit sales?

I'm curious about that.

I don't subscribe to Billboard, are these stats available at their website?

edit

I see that they have a Top Pop Catalog, which is where I assume the Stones titles would be categorized -- but getting past the top 20 requires a subscription of some sort......

JTs Greatest Hits tops this category for those that were wondering.

So, anyone with a subscription want to pony up the rankings in the "Top Pop Catalog"?

Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

That's my main problem with the Stones roll-out. These titles could possibly drive new SACD sales, yet Sony has discontinued all of their decently priced audio only SACD players before the release and does not have replacements announced or available. A missed opportunity.

Justin, I think its too early to think Sony has discontinued all less-expensive SACD players. They are on a 8 month replacement cycle so the discontinuation of the SACD players is a normal part of their product development cycle. I have heard differently from my industry contacts.
We should all be clear on one thing: absolute numbers of SACD and DVDA discs will continue to look like a drop in the bucket until more awareness is reached. I would argue th rate of adoption, the best metric, is increasing exponentially.
Look at all the new DVDA and SACD players...
Look at all the new labels adopting the hi-rez formats...
We have to give this some time to develop. I feel pretty good about things lately given all the activity.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

DVD-Video was a different story altogether since it was an upgrade from a tape-based system and the difference was obvious to those with average quality television sets.

Marc,

I don't believe that this is a bad analogy. The difference in Super Audio from redbook on an average system is still dramatic. I've done this test enough with non-audiophiles in the room to know.

DVD did not take off in 1-1.5 years. It took more like 3-4 to take off as us early members of the forum (I had a different ID here in 1997) know. It will likely take more time for CDs to be replaced but it could happen easily IMHO. The marketing has to get better and so does title availability.

 

[James Q Jenkins]

When I go into my local Tower Records the number of titles in the record racks in all genres overwhelmingly outnumbers the amount of SACD and DVD-Audio titles. Even if half of the LPs were DJ mixes (which is the case) the number of titles still at least quadruples the available SACDs and DVD-As combined. This is the simple answer as to why the sales numbers are as they stand right now.

 

[Phil A]

John, as of late last year, none of the Stones albums are even listed by the RIAA as the top 100 sellers of all time (James Taylor's "Greatest" is there) - http://www.riaa.org/Gold-Best-5.cfm
If SACD and DVD-A expect to be more more than a niche market, they need more releases of albums that have sold in the past and also more releases of current albums and have the same street dates. If, for example, Columbia (not picking on one label), decides to release "The Rising" a year from now on SACD, it certainly would have been much better if they released a hybrid SACD to start with. Otherwise, by waiting, they are limiting their sales to Sprinsteen fans who are also audiophiles. By releasing a hybrid, they could have sold all those hundreds of thousands of Albums to Springsteen fans who might be curious enough to go listen at a hi-fi shop in SACD. A huge missed opportunity.
And as John points out, there are charts out there with best selling albums. Until DVD-A and SACD both become part of these charts by making them, they continue to be a niche market.