....this is actually what I am looking into with my upcoming upgrade..... a 3-power amp for the 3 fronts....
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Onkyo TX-RZ50 vs. Denon X4700H vs. Yamaha RX-A6A (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JNMNL52
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Kaskade1309
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Just to echo some sentiments here, notably Jim's, as he is an awesome guy, I have been a longtime Onkyo fan since first being introduced to the brand by a college friend who turned me on to their stuff. My first AVR was the TX-SR600, and this powered my small 5.1 setup in my studio apartment located in New York at the time -- even through a cross-country move and more local moves after that, the unit is STILL working, and we use it as a stereo amp for two Polk R15s on stands (also from my first surround setup, where they were used for surround channels), for basically playing music in our workout room/my wife's office (discs are played through an old Panasonic non-progressive-scan DVD player, also from that first surround system). The receiver even has a massive dent in the side from carelessness during one of the moves, and it STILL cranks like it was day one -- it even has enough juice (at a mere 80 watts per channel) to fill our neighborhood with sound on Halloween night when we blast the entire ride soundtrack from Disney's Haunted Mansion out of our upstairs window.
Since that time, I have moved on to a TX-SR605 -- which we STILL use, every day, all these years later in our primary HT setup -- and we also use a TX-8555 stereo receiver in our two-channel system that has been AWESOME, albeit missing some features like provisions for an equalizer hookup and no loudness button.
I would buy another model from this brand in a heartbeat based on the reliability we have experienced, and I too have been eyeing the RZ50 -- it is somewhat outside of our budget, so we'll most likely end up with the model below it when it's time to upgrade to an AVR with Atmos support, which falls outside of the premium RZ line, but it's definitely on the radar in terms of this "newly christened" Onkyo resurgence.
Since that time, I have moved on to a TX-SR605 -- which we STILL use, every day, all these years later in our primary HT setup -- and we also use a TX-8555 stereo receiver in our two-channel system that has been AWESOME, albeit missing some features like provisions for an equalizer hookup and no loudness button.
I would buy another model from this brand in a heartbeat based on the reliability we have experienced, and I too have been eyeing the RZ50 -- it is somewhat outside of our budget, so we'll most likely end up with the model below it when it's time to upgrade to an AVR with Atmos support, which falls outside of the premium RZ line, but it's definitely on the radar in terms of this "newly christened" Onkyo resurgence.
Kaskade1309
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I didn't know you were considering a three-channel power amp for the front stage, Jim...
That's what I want to eventually do, too.
sddale
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How are you liking your set up now? I just got the RZ50 and it seems to work pretty well. I am using it with a Sherbourn 5x200w powering the front 3 and surround back rears for 7.1.4.
I was thinking about getting the Denon 6700 for Auro-3D and future upgrading for 13 channel processing but not sure it's worth it.
I was thinking about getting the Denon 6700 for Auro-3D and future upgrading for 13 channel processing but not sure it's worth it.
So my Integra DRX 3.4 arrived, after waiting 6 months since ordering (!).
My existing setup is Gallo reference 3.2 fronts with Gallo Reference AV center, and a pair of PSB Alpha Intro's for surround, Gallo TR1 sub. - Straight old school 5.1.
This was previously run with an Onkyo TX-SR876 and later an Integra DTR 70.4 - both are the old style class AB flagship beasts - theoretically 140W@8ohm, actually measured at over 165W@8ohm into 2 channels, with substantial current - they ran my speakers well... but I was never happy with the Audyssey XT32 sound - my system sounded better without Audyssey than it did with it.
Over some years I experimented with external amps, but although there were gains in sound quality, they were marginal....
The Front speakers are a difficult load, with the woofer dropping down below 3ohm and the tweeter being a reactive/capacitive load dropping down to 1.6 ohm... many amps that sound great with more "normal" speakers, don't sound so great with these - they really do require amps with lots of "amps". The external power amps that I have found got the best from these speakers are a pair of Crown XLS2500 (rated at 440W@8ohm, 775W@4ohm, 1200W@2ohm).
When seeking a new AVR, my goals were to get something with current processing (including the lates HDMI), processing capability for 5.1.4 (so I can add heights), and RoomEQ a that did much better than Audyssey....
Enter the new generation of Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer AVR's with Dirac Live.
None of the models available at present, have the type of power and current capability that my speakers need - even the more powerful RZ50/505/5.4 models only have 120W@8ohm, and according to various tests, seem to get into strife when driving low impedance loads.
So I focused on getting the most economical one that has pre-outs... and was available quickly... (hence the Integra 3.4) - had I been willing to wait another couple of months, an Onkyo RZ50 might have been an option for a a few hundred more $.
On receipt of the Integra, I plugged it in replacing my previous AVR, standalone (no power amps) - the sound was definitely not stellar, congested, muddy, lacking clarity.
So I plugged in the Crown amps, driving just the L & R - leaving the Center on the Integra - that sorted things out very nicely.
The system now sounded just as it should, and just as it has for years on the much more powerful previous generation flagship AVR.
My conclusion: the power supply on the Integra simply cannot provide the current my speakers need - removing the load of the two mains, left the AVR with plenty of power to drive center and a pair of surrounds.
I then ran Dirac - and WOW! - Dirac took the whole system up a notch, improving dialog inteligibility markedly... clearer, sharper imaging, just a really surprising improvement!
As a next step, after a few weeks, I moved the center channel to the Crown amps as well - if there was an improvement, it was very slight, but I may have been imagining things.
I fell that the Integra will be quite capable of driving Surrounds and Heights, saving me the cost of more external amps, while acting as an extremely capable pre-pro, in combination with my existing power amps.
Yes, there are AVR's that can drive difficult speakers (I have owned a couple) - but they cost 2 to 3 times as much as I paid for the Integra... and even then, they are likely to find driving my speakers, alongside 6 other surround/height speakers a bit much... and when the power supply runs out of current, the sound goes to hell.
So yes - I highly recommend the current Onkyo family of AVR's - particularly as pre-pro's - with regards to AVR power amps - regardless of brand or model, it is very very much a case of being dependent on your speakers and room.... if they are high efficiency speakers, with relatively easy loads (8ohm, with impedance bottoming out no lower than 4ohm) .... then the internal amps may well do a great job... but for those of us with more exotic speakers, appropriate external amps will be needed.
My existing setup is Gallo reference 3.2 fronts with Gallo Reference AV center, and a pair of PSB Alpha Intro's for surround, Gallo TR1 sub. - Straight old school 5.1.
This was previously run with an Onkyo TX-SR876 and later an Integra DTR 70.4 - both are the old style class AB flagship beasts - theoretically 140W@8ohm, actually measured at over 165W@8ohm into 2 channels, with substantial current - they ran my speakers well... but I was never happy with the Audyssey XT32 sound - my system sounded better without Audyssey than it did with it.
Over some years I experimented with external amps, but although there were gains in sound quality, they were marginal....
The Front speakers are a difficult load, with the woofer dropping down below 3ohm and the tweeter being a reactive/capacitive load dropping down to 1.6 ohm... many amps that sound great with more "normal" speakers, don't sound so great with these - they really do require amps with lots of "amps". The external power amps that I have found got the best from these speakers are a pair of Crown XLS2500 (rated at 440W@8ohm, 775W@4ohm, 1200W@2ohm).
When seeking a new AVR, my goals were to get something with current processing (including the lates HDMI), processing capability for 5.1.4 (so I can add heights), and RoomEQ a that did much better than Audyssey....
Enter the new generation of Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer AVR's with Dirac Live.
None of the models available at present, have the type of power and current capability that my speakers need - even the more powerful RZ50/505/5.4 models only have 120W@8ohm, and according to various tests, seem to get into strife when driving low impedance loads.
So I focused on getting the most economical one that has pre-outs... and was available quickly... (hence the Integra 3.4) - had I been willing to wait another couple of months, an Onkyo RZ50 might have been an option for a a few hundred more $.
On receipt of the Integra, I plugged it in replacing my previous AVR, standalone (no power amps) - the sound was definitely not stellar, congested, muddy, lacking clarity.
So I plugged in the Crown amps, driving just the L & R - leaving the Center on the Integra - that sorted things out very nicely.
The system now sounded just as it should, and just as it has for years on the much more powerful previous generation flagship AVR.
My conclusion: the power supply on the Integra simply cannot provide the current my speakers need - removing the load of the two mains, left the AVR with plenty of power to drive center and a pair of surrounds.
I then ran Dirac - and WOW! - Dirac took the whole system up a notch, improving dialog inteligibility markedly... clearer, sharper imaging, just a really surprising improvement!
As a next step, after a few weeks, I moved the center channel to the Crown amps as well - if there was an improvement, it was very slight, but I may have been imagining things.
I fell that the Integra will be quite capable of driving Surrounds and Heights, saving me the cost of more external amps, while acting as an extremely capable pre-pro, in combination with my existing power amps.
Yes, there are AVR's that can drive difficult speakers (I have owned a couple) - but they cost 2 to 3 times as much as I paid for the Integra... and even then, they are likely to find driving my speakers, alongside 6 other surround/height speakers a bit much... and when the power supply runs out of current, the sound goes to hell.
So yes - I highly recommend the current Onkyo family of AVR's - particularly as pre-pro's - with regards to AVR power amps - regardless of brand or model, it is very very much a case of being dependent on your speakers and room.... if they are high efficiency speakers, with relatively easy loads (8ohm, with impedance bottoming out no lower than 4ohm) .... then the internal amps may well do a great job... but for those of us with more exotic speakers, appropriate external amps will be needed.
Kaskade1309
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YANG
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i think it's time to revisit this thread considering that the competitive "candidates" are complete with Marantz Cine50 joined in last year?
here are 2 comparison tables where i find that some infos are missing, but generally...
on U.S. spec'd models
on Euro/UK spec'd models
...acceptable for rough reference.
here are 2 comparison tables where i find that some infos are missing, but generally...
on U.S. spec'd models
on Euro/UK spec'd models
...acceptable for rough reference.
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