The Dark Knight (2008) (1 Viewer)

[Paul_Scott]

One other point, though. Criticism of plot points does not imply the film is 'broken' and therfore can't perform it's primary function (to entertain).To me, the hospital evacuation is a plot point stressed in the film that betrays logic and believability seemingly in an effort to ensure PG-13 rating. For me, the ease and speed with which a major metrpolitan hospital is evacuated is a major eye-roller, and it takes me out of the film, however briefly. Significant loss of life didn't have to be explicity shown on camera for it to still be harrowing. But completely neutering that, by having one character explicitly state "we're all clear" was a rare point where I felt the film was talking down to me. Some see that as a nit-pick. For me it was as jarring as hitting a deep pot-hole going 50 mph..


That's why I'm not quite ready to confer god-hood (the way some people were with Singer after X2) on Nolan just yet. I think he's still got a better (more precise, less compromised) Batman film in him.See, I can be positive

 

[Chris Will]

I just saw TDK again for the second time, this time in IMAX. When the first scene came on screen I think my exact words were "you've got to be kidding me!" Unbelievable is the only way I can think of to describe the experience. It was truly one of the most enjoyable theatrical presentations I've ever experienced. Almost more unbelievable and incredible then the IMAX image itself was the sound. Holy cow, I have never heard a movie sound so good. It was the loudest movie I've ever witnessed yet, not uncomfortable loud like when regular theaters just crank up the volume knob. This is a testament to the IMAX sound system, which is just amazing. You could literally feel every big bass impact in your chest. It made it feel like you were getting punch during the fight. When Bruce fired that big gun, in the scene where he is getting the finger print from the bullet, it felt like you were standing there with them. Alfred's line "I don't think you made it loud enough" had that much more impact in IMAX. My only question is when will IMAX make the home version of this system!

Seriously, if you have an IMAX theater within 50 miles of your location, make the trip. You will not regret it.

I'm now, also, all for them showing the IMAX scenes in fullscreen 16:9 on the Blu-Ray because I want as much of the IMAX image preserved as possible. You can easily tell that those scene were framed for IMAX and just cropped for normal presentation so, I want to see as much of that image as I can on Blu-Ray.

 

[Paul_Scott]

Would you prefer them to be in their full, native AR (1.44:1?) or would you rather have them fill the 16:9 screen?
I'm hoping to hit an Imax theater for my second viewing next week, but I'm not sure if it's a good Imax venue or not.

 

[Kevin Grey]

Very well said, Mike. For all of the pre-release attention on The Joker, TDK was very much about the rise and fall of Harvey Dent and the film would have been dramatically weakened if any part of that arc had been removed or shoved off to a third film.

Dent really is the focal point that everyone revolves around. He's the personal representation of the chaos that the Joker creates. Dent is linked to Rachel and therefore to Wayne's "private" life. And of course through Gordon he's linked to Batman's "professional" life.

I also loved the way that his status as White Knight of Gotham was used to drive home Batman as the Dark Knight in the end. I've loved the title of the movie since it was announced just for pure fandom but didn't expect it to actually matter to the movie nearly as much as it did.

 

[Pete York]

This may seem like an odd question, but for those who saw the film in IMAX, about how far away from the screen were you? Not talking about vertical, I know you NEED to be in the top rows, but the horizontal plane from your eyes to the screen. I'm convinced the set-up in our theater was just too tight and we were too close to the screen. I doubt the point of it is to only be able to process about 33% of what's on the screen.

 

[Chris Will]

To be honest, that's how all IMAX theaters are (the ones I've been to at least). They are built so the audience is far closer to the screen then conventional theaters. I don't have a number but I can tell you that I was close. Typical IMAX films are designed with this in mind, you are suppose to have to look around a little. It's meant to make you feel like you are in the movie, not just watching it. Some of the IMAX films I've seen at the Kennedy Space Center use this effect to great lengths, especially the 3d ones. I'll agree that this doesn't always translate well to Hollywood films because, in IMAX you could miss some thing if you are not looking at the right part of the screen at the right time.

 

[paul_v]

My gosh...TDK had the 12th largest Wednesday box office take...and it's been out 5 days already. Every other film in the top 20 opened on a Wednesday except for Harry Potter and Pirates of the Carribean.

Single Day Records: Highest Grossing Wednesdays at the Box Office

Also, it made over $24 Million on Monday and $20 Million on Tuesday. The last three days it made $58 million which is more then most films make on its opening weekend. This film is a monster. I wish I could have purchased some stock in Warner.

 

[BrettGallman]

Regarding the hospital: everyone surviving did serve a plot purpose, in a way, as it was a way of telling the characters within the story (especially Gordon) that Dent did not perish in the hospital explosion. This leads to Gordon believing that he's one of the Joker's hostages and leads to that great "I've got to save Dent" line; of course, at the same time, Dent is about to kidnap Gordon's family. So, it does serve a purpose; however, I suppose they still could have accomplished this without basically having everyone survive, so it doesn't really fix the believability nitpick.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

I agree with most of those who find Dent's arc to be central to the film, and that Nolan's built up for Dent to be very strong, but I found the execution less satisfying after he is burned. There is a lot of talk about the nature of one's character after that fateful moment, and those themes were definitely planted by the filmmakers, but it was slightly too much "tell," and not enough "show" for me. I agree with Paul that it would have been pretty interesting to see a post-traumatic Dent given even more screentime in a third film.

Has any successful Batman story used Dent/Two Face as a redemptive character?

A few other miscellaneous things:

Game theory professors are probably salivating to use the movie to demonstrate a very messed up version of the prisoner's dilemma with the two ferries. But, I think the Nash equilibrium here is strictly going to be blowing up the other ship.

Dent's "I'm Batman" reminded me of Spartacus. Gordon's interrogation of the Joker, with the Ledger's face flanked by darkness, reminded me of Kurtz in Apocalypse.

I liked Gyllenhal more than Holmes, but I would have preferred to have Holmes continue in this movie considering what happened to the character.

I appreciated the look of the city this time around more. The Gotham in Begins seemed to be more dingy, but also more like a movie construct. That's fine, but the more realistic view of a city in this picture gives the chaos that the Joker brings more bite.

 

[MikeRS]

Christopher Nolan interview Christopher Nolan — KCRW So he mentioned Clockwork Orange's Alex during his first interview with Heath.

 

[Paul_Scott]

I will admit that it is entirely foolish to try to argue the merits of, or compare, a movie that can only ever exist in theory with one that is real and complete.

But I disagree that just because something is complete (as Dents arc is here) that it couldn't have been a richer experience spread across two films rather than one.

Maybe my feelings will alter on a second viewing. Having had more time to digest the film, Harvey's arc just feels too rushed to me now. Honestly, 2.5 hours breezed by for me. I could have easily digested another 15-30 minutes without an intermission. That probably would have allowed sufficent time to address my main problem.





As far as Two-face having any redemption themed comic stories-I seem to recall a golden age story, possibly his second appearence, where he may have sacrificed himself to save someone. I think it was reprinted in one of the early 70's 100 page Super Spectaculars I had as a kid. I may try to dig it out in the next week to check.

 

[Kachi Khatri]

I too, felt the Harvey arc a bit rushed but that could change upon repeated viewing.

But as for the redemption theme for Two-Face you mentioned, I can see it work in the third film for the first fifteen minutes or so and bring closure to his character. I wouldn't want Two-Face for the entire film for the third movie.

 

[Kevin Grey]

If there was one thing I prefer in Begins, it's the conception of Gotham. I loved the way that Nolan combined Chicago exteriors, CG altered skylines, and extensive stagework. It made Gotham feel very unique. In TDK it was too close to Chicago. The more extensive on location work was great, but I wish they made more of an effort to alter the shots in post to make it match Begins' Gotham, like having The Narrows visible in the background of some establishing shots.

Also, I only noticed the elevated track in one shot in TDK and it was a major visual focal point in Begins. Yeah, it was largely destroyed at the end of Begins but I would have expected it to be in the process of being rebuilt.

I also really missed the Batcave but that omission was understandable, though I hope it returns in a third film.

 

[Brian D H]

As long as we're picking nits, I completely agree with this one.

 

[Ray H]

I agree to an extent. Largely that they should have altered the footage they shot in Chicago to match what we'd seen in Batman Begins a bit more. Overall, I like what shooting on location lent to the feel of the movie. Gotham felt like a real city - probably because it was. On repeat viewings of Batman Begins, Gotham started to feel a little too cramped, and I think it's because aside from CGI-enhanced establishing shots, the movie was largely shot on a soundstage in England.

 

[Paul_Scott]

The Narrows seemed claustraphobic to me, but I think that was intentional. On the whole though, the city of TDK curiously seemed smaller in scale to me. With Begins, I got a better sense of geography. In addition to an extreme wide establishing shot, you had the Narrows, accessible only by bridges, then you had a robust train ride to get to the center of the city and Wayne Tower. The length of the train ride from the narrows to the tower gives me a sense of scale. I don't think I can place where one set-piece in TDK is in relation to Wayne Tower, or even another set-piece.
The change to a cooler palatte probably also contributes to the slight sense of dislocation I have between the two films.
I did prefer the sense of the city in Begins, but I can't say the change bugs me that much. It's cool to see a character like this play within a real city. I'll take more of that anyway I can get it.

 

[Kevin Grey]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't want to remove any of the location work but a little bit more integration in some of those skylines would have helped the connection for me. And maybe make the bar that Gordon arrests Maroni in be the same bar that Wayne visited Falcone in. As is, I'm thinking that Gordon's home and office may have been the only locations shared between the films.

 

[Sean Laughter]

I'd mentioned this earlier in the thread, but they also seem to have used a different building for the exterior of Wayne Tower this time around (though I only really remember one lingering shot on the exterior of the tower in TDK).

Also, I didn't really get the impression that the entire rail system was destroyed. The only part that I thought took any heavy damage was the part right outside Wayne Tower that Gordon destroyed with the Tumbler.

 

[Kevin Grey]

It seemed like this film purposely removed some of the mystique that Begins tried to give the character. He spends more time "in the light" and it's rather jarring and almost absurd to see him just hanging out in a well-lit interrogation cell. Even the opening fight in the parking garage, the fight in the penthouse, the interrogation sequence, etc were lit rather brightly compared to his appearances in Begins. Along with the relative non-reactions from the cops other than Gordon, it all served to make Batman feel more rather of fact than mysterious. People just sort of accept Batman this time around.

Obviously this is Nolan's intention though, and after the setup at the end of TDK, I expect that the next movie will move back toward making Batman a more shadowy figure. Nolan already seemed to be moving back to this with the way he filmed the final fight against the SWAT team since Batman and the police were technically at odds again.

 

[Nick Martin]

That was a surprise, but I welcomed it.

It's almost as though Batman and the police have - through Gordon - an unofficial truce and work together, while officially (as far as the media is concerned anyway) they are investigating and looking to arrest him.