The Dark Knight (2008) (1 Viewer)

[Brian D H]

First of all I loved the movie, and really have only one small issue. I would love to ask Nolan this question, but since I can't I'll ask you guys.

Forgive me, but this involves a bit of speculation:

Gordon's son: Why?
I'm wondering about why Nolan decided to invent a son for Gordon. It really made his daughter, Barbara, feel like an afterthought who was included in the movie only to appease the fans. Barbara (the daughter) is there in the final scene, but not even mentioned in the script - except for changing a line or two from "kid" to "kids". Two-face even threatens his wife and son, but never mentions the daughter sitting right there.

Thoughts: It feels like the son was invented so that he could be killed by Two-Face (in an early draft of the script?) without messing with continuity (afterall, you can't kill Barbarba Gordon). Then, at some point, they came up with the great "Batman hunted" ending. If Batman chooses to throw away his reputation to protect Harvey's, AND GORDON GOES ALONG WITH IT, this would not work at all if Harvey had just killed Gordon's son. So, they change the ending to have Gordon's son live.

Here's my question: Since Gordon's son lives, why not simply have Harvey threaten his daughter instead? Why have a son at all? (I would have loved that final monologue being spoken to a young Barbara instead.) Is the son still going to be killed in a future movie? If not, why have him? Did they come up with the ending late in the filming, after already shooting all of the son's other scenes, too late to change it to a daughter? Was the daughter really as much of an afterthought as she seemed, or did something get cut?
_________
EDIT - Sorry for my ignorance - please see post #317

 

[Mark Hawley]

Not to mention that at the beginning of Burton's Batman, Batman is still relatively unknown in the city and is largely just a rumour, having made relatively few appearances. Even Gordon didn't know for sure he existed based on his surprised reaction when he first sees him at Axis chemicals.

 

[Dennis Castro]

I'm not done reading through all of this thread.

I saw the film on Friday night then again on Sunday morning.

A comment about what's being said about Gyllenhall.

It's refreshing that the love interest is not a hottie for once. Gyllenhall looks like a normal everyday person. Sure rich and famous people often end up with beautiful people but not always. I think her looks were down played to contribute the the "real world" feel that Nolan is going for.

Gyllenhall's character is a year older more mature. This is a small part but it needed an actress that could give us a sense of maturity. Gyllenhall is a far superior actress then Holmes ever thought of being. I don't think Holmes could have given us that.

 

[Michael:M]

I originally was against recasting the role; I had wanted a new character. However, having seen the film twice, I think it was a great move. Gyllenhall is an accomplished actress with a genuine quality to her. Keeping the character was the right move, as was recasting.

Holmes was amazingly wooden and stilted in Begins. While I liked the scene with her and Bale in the car, the rest of her performance was cringeworthy.

 

[Shaun]

I had no problem with Maggie Gylenhall as Rachel. Considering the rest of the cast and the quality of acting in TDK, she is a definite improvement. Though I don't have a problem with Katie Holmes, I'm sure that if she had returned, she would have stuck out as the weak link even more than in BB.

 

[Mark Hawley]

That's still two more than Batman begins had, not to mention those films came out only a few years after the previous entries in the series. There was no reason to assume they weren't part of the series. And given Harvey Dent's Michael Jaskson-esque race change in Forever, it's pretty obvious the filmmakers were adhering to a very loose continuity at best.

Lastly, giving Reed the benefit of the doubt and assuming he had no idea that Begins takes place in it's own world seperate from that of Burton's, then why would he resent it so much when it becomes blatantly obvious that it's not the same world? Why would he hold that against the film?

No offense but it just seems like you're playing dumb to defend Reed, who was obviously just playing dumb (I hope it was only playing) to give his trademark bitchy review of a popular summer movie.

 

[cafink]

No playing here. As I said in a previous post, I personally know several people who had previously assumed Batman Begins to be part of the Burton/Schumacher series.

 

[todd s]

I loved how we see Joker morph from the guy who does everything he can to unmask Batman to the Joker we know from the comics. Who comes to realize without Batman....He has no purpose. And actually goes out of his way to prevent him from being unmasked.

 

[teapot2001]

Maybe Nolan is a fan of Shane.

~T

 

[Brian D H]

Shane?

 

[Patrick Sun]

"Shane", the movie.

 

[Brian D H]

Right. Duh. My brain was in comic-book mode, not western.

"Come back, Wayne!" (I dunno, I think it still works thematically, even if a girl says it.)

Any other thoughts? Why do you think the child-in-jeopardy was a son, instead of the daughter we all know, Barbara?

 

[Ray H]

I really don't know why they made the kid a son, except it seems to work thematically better than if it were a daughter. Fathers and sons, ya know. It recalled the relationship between Bruce and his father (his mother didn't do squat except wear a pearl necklace and get shot) and also there's the long line of movie father/son relationships that Nolan may have wanted to recall. Either way, Gotham as Nolan envisions it, seems to be a boy's world.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Gordon does have a son. That's who Bruce saved (as a faceless stranger) in Batman: Year One.

 

[Brian D H]

Well, I guess I sort of get it. But as the father of 2 girls, not really. I can't imagine being closer to a son than I am to my girls, but then again I don't have one.

Especially, when established canon is already a girl, a girl who needs to idolize Batman and who grows up to join him as Batgirl. Why not take this opportunity to show young Barbara in that last scene standing with her father as he explains why Batman has to run? Just seems to be a missed opportunity to me.

 

[Michael:M]

Chuck, what did you think of the score? I bought it last Tuesday and am absolutely loving it. I really dug Begins score, and this is everything TDK is to Begins: deeper, bigger, more intense...simply more.

(Not that no one else is allowed to chime in; but I'm recalling trading posts with Chuck about Batman for at least three years now, and I know he's another fan of the Zimmer/Howard collaborations.)

 

[Brian D H]

Thank you! My comic-book education is lacking. I apologize for my ignorance - inexcusable, I know.

Please tell me about this son. I don't recall him, only his sister. What was his fate in the comic books?

 

[todd s]

Brian, I have 2 daughters and now a son. I am close to all three. But, feel a bit of a bigger bond with my son. Just for the fact that we like a lot of the same things. My son is into Batman while my girls would rather watch Project Runway.

 

[Brian D H]

Well, that explains it. I have a 2 year old and a 6 year old daughter and they both drop everything when Batman (TAS) comes on TV. Of course, it will be many years before I can show them Nolan's version.

Can anyone tell me about James Gordon Jr. in the comic books?

 

[Dennis Castro]

I'm not trying to be insulting in any way.

I find it had to believe that anyone can confuse the Burton/Schumacher Batman films with Nolan's Batman. When it comes to Rex Reed it seems to me that it's more of an act just to be against the grain.