*** Official "STAR WARS & EPISODE II" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Adam Lenhardt]

AOTC's CGI positively owns LOTR's CGI... however, as LOTR uses far, far less CGI than AOTC, it comes off more convincingly. Atleast that's my take on things. But can you really say that the cave troll the LOTR trailer looks better than Yoda in the AOTC trailer?
Also, in the one image of Obi-Wan, there's something interesting in the shadows...
Link Removed
We see Count Dooku watching over our stricken Jedi.
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[Hubert]

"especially since it eschews total use of CGI and still (Thankfully) uses people in costumes and masks, not just CGI renderings."
You do realize that Episode II and Episode I both used a lot of people in masks, and not just CGI for everything? I still do not understand why a lot of people have this disdain for CGI. Face it, you can't make Star Wars or LOTR without a ton of CGI. And both have a ton of it. Based on the latest trailer of LOTR, it uses a lot of CGI. But that doesn't matter to me. CGI does not bother me in the least, unless it's just horrid.
[Edited last by Hubert on November 06, 2001 at 04:13 PM]

 

[Chuck Mayer]

And in response to the great CGI debate,
Tolkein's storytelling ability COMPLETELY OWNS Lucas' storytelling ability.
Each movie will have it's strengths. It's amazing how this can turn into the same lame fight that it always does. I am certain that SW will have superior amounts and likely superior quality CGI. ILM's been around about a googol longer than WETA and works quite cheap for Lucas (as they should). I am also quite certain that very few of the people making SWII have the same passion that PJ's crew does. But this is all conjecture...
SW fans will claim that EP II is superior to LOTR (and most everything else) regardless of outside influences...including movie quality. Bashers will hate it regardless. LOTR fans will feel similar about their love. I care about both, asnd I am excited about both movies. I don't care whose CGI is better, I care which one entertains me the most.
My worthless 2 cents...
Chuck

[Edited last by Chuck Mayer on November 06, 2001 at 04:27 PM]

 

[Ethan Thomas]

I haven't read through all the posts of this thread so someone may have already pointed this out, but the same thing happened with Episode I... some of the effects shots in the teaser look awful... especially the detail on the battle droids as they stood up at the battle with the gungans... you can even see the transition of work in the LOTR trailers... especially the scene where the orc army is marching that appears in almost every trailer... it just gets better and more detailed every time... so let's have some patients and realize that this movie is still over half a year from it's release date...
Oh, and BTW, I thought that the teaser was amazing... props to Lucas for not giving away half the movie like he did with the Episode I teaser... I remember watching the Episode I preview and going Holy *beep*!!! The bad guy has a double sided lightsaber!!! Then shortly thereafter thinking you know? That would have been 10,000 times cooler if it was revealed on-screen. I also think the teaser could have been anything as long as it wasn't telling us Episode II had been renamed to Episode II: The Jar-Jar Binks Musical Extravaganza and everyone who was going to see the movie before still would.

 

[Carlo_M]

It's not the amount or quality of CGI, it's how it's used to tell a story. These movies should not be judged on special effects, but how well it tells the story.
Because my original widescreen VHS of the Original SW trilogy sure has sub-standard SE and poor picture quality (all 240 lines of resolution).
But you know what? The story has me for those three movies. I could care less that they're on VHS. And chances are that I'll watch those VHS of the original OT before watching the SE-ized versions on DVD. I even purchased the last LD release of the OT even though I don't own an LD player.
[Edited last by Carlo Medina on November 06, 2001 at 05:00 PM]

 

[Tom Ryan]

Also, in the one image of Obi-Wan, there's something interesting in the shadows...
We see Count Dooku watching over our stricken Jedi.

Interesting! That certainly lends credence to my theory, which is.....based on the trailer, it seems like part of the plot has Dooku capturing Obi-Wan (seen in one picture) and then Anakin coming after him to fight him (the older man Anakin is fighting at the end of the trailer) and rescue Obi-Wan. Keep in mind, I know nothing about the plot of Episode II except that Count Dooku is a bad guy, so this is mere speculation.
-Tom

 

[Hubert]

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned LOTR. My intent was to not compare the two quality wise. But the CGI. Some are saying the CGI in the teaser is not good. I just don't see how they can say that. And someone made the implication that SW uses a lot more CGI than LOTR. Well, LOTR uses a lot of CGI as well and I don't see how that is a bad thing, again, unless the CGI is horrible. I don't understand that disdain for CGI. You can't make LOTR or SW without CGI, and a lot of it? CGI is here to stay.
As for Peter Jackson's storytelling ability, how would anyone know that without even having seem LOTR? Also, if you look at the first 3 SW movies, I wouldn't say Jackson owns Lucas at all in the storytelling area. Also, look at Indian Jones, movies given to us by Lucas. We haven't even seen LOTR yet. A lot of people here are claiming LOTR will be awesome without even having seen it. As for people that will say LOTR sucks simply because they are SW fans, the same can be said of LOTR fans. So many times I've seen LOTR fans bash anything SW at the mere mention of the word, as if they feel threatened by it. I'm excited about LOTR. But I'm speaking in terms of CGI. Let's make this the end of the debate, and if I had anything to do with turning this thread into that, I apologize.
Let's discuss the trailer and only the trailer.

 

[Tom Ryan]

Waiiiiiit a second......that image with Dooku watching Obi-wan isn't from the trailer! I checked it and the framing is never wide enough to include Dooku on the left. I take it that image is from Entertainment Tonight, so what's going on here?
-Tom

 

[Ruben Zamora]

Warning. haven read the whole thread, but there is infact a FAKE trailer. LMAO, it has scenes from EP1 and Braveheart LMAO!!!! just be sure we're all talking about the same Trailer.
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[Rollie]

Dammit, I want to DOWNLOAD this trailer! I can only stream it from starwars.com. (And the ole grabbing it from the Internet Files directory doesn't work)
Not sure why Lucas wants to stop promotion of his upcoming film. Wouldn't it make more sense to let people distribute it?
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[Edited last by Rollie on November 06, 2001 at 07:18 PM]

 

[Hubert]

Rollie, I've got a very hi quality hi-res and larger version of this trailer. I can send to you through email if you want me to. Just let me know.

 

[Jaime m]

Basically Lucas wants everyone to download it from his site(can you blame him), it's all about hits. I mean Sheesh, everyone downloaded the LOTR trailer from the official site and I didn't hear anyone crying about that. The bottom line is that Lucas could hand out copies of EP2 on dvd tomorrow and he would still get shit from people no matter what he does.Ridiculous.
Oh by the way i thought that the trailer was cool.
[Edited last by Jaime m on November 06, 2001 at 07:54 PM]
[Edited last by Jaime m on November 06, 2001 at 07:56 PM]

 

[Phil Florian]

Howdy!
Thanks for jumping in, Chuck! Your points were exactly what I was saying...that at this point, the effects in the LOTR trailer looks better, as it should this close to opening. I know that Ep. 1 uses people in costumes, that is true. I think maybe I was thinking more along the lines of the sets. When I watched the DVD background stuff (and I LOVE the DVD) it is all partial sets with blue screens. I think the actors have said more than once they would rather have real sets to play off of. This would go true with CG characters, too. Granted, Lucas also uses "dummy" actors in place of the CG, which at least give them somthing to look at.
It is apples and oranges to me, though. A fan nitpicking at worst, because I will be in line for both movies, toot sweet. I am just glad we have this kind of filmmaking going on!
Phil
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[Tom Ryan]

Ah screw it..........
http://www.wsu.edu/~jetman/Ep2tease.mov
Enjoy, it's the hires one (and remember to right-click and save!).
-Tom

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Waiiiiiit a second......that image with Dooku watching Obi-wan isn't from the trailer!

Yes it is. I grabbed it DIRECTLY from the hi-res version of the trailer. He's not visible in most of the shot, only when it starts to fade to black between breaths. Even then, you can't really see him (due to the darkness of the fade) unless you really up the brightness as I did for the frame in Photoshop.
As for my comment concerning the CGI between AOTC and LOTR... I was simply stating that (in my opinion) the Lord of the Rings CGI isn't nearly as good, however since Peter Jackson (wisely) chose to use real locations and detailed actual sets, the CGI is much less rampant and more simplistic. (Although some of the army replication is very good indeed... I like the way they combined CG soldiers with actual actors to such a realistic effect.) I'm anticipating both movies very much, I just wanted to get the point out that there isn't nearly as much CGI in LOTR (though still quite a bit) as in AOTC, which is why it's less noticable.
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[Tom Ryan]

Oh hey, there he is! But he's impossible to see unless you know it's there.....it's practically black in that frame....how'd you see him?
-Tom

 

[Rollie]

Thanks for the help guys. Ironically enough I found a link for it on a movie trailer site right after my post. Gotta go look for Dooku now!
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[Hubert]

I agree, but is there any way to make a Stars Wars the way Lucas envisions it without a gargantuan amount of CGI? I think both movies will have incredible CGI. I know Episode I had some of the most groundbreaking effects ever seen. Let's just hope we don't see Jar Jar goofing up in this movie. I can handle Jar Jar in a more serious role.

 

[mark_d]

It was so cute - my two and a half year old daughter sat down with me to watch this trailer that I'd taped, and she could obviously sense my excitement.
"Again! Again!" she exclaimed. So we watched it agin. And again. She loved it, too. She liked the impressive, fast moving visuals, but I think she was most taken with the breathing sound - she imitated it, then I did. "No, no. Like this: ksssshhhh, ksssshhhh", she scolded.
I love my girl.
I asked the wife if I could show her a little of Star Wars so that she could see a bit of Vader and get where the sound originated, but the missus wouldn't have it. "Nope. I'm not having her get into Star Wars at that age."
Which is fair enough, I s'pose.
Mark

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I first watched the trailer on a lab monitor, with the brightness overly cranked
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