*** Official KILL BILL: VOLUME 2 Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Patrick Sun]

Her name being bleeped never held such power over me when I viewed the films in terms of who the bride was at any given point in time. Perhaps I subscribe to the "a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet" camp. I think it's just something Tarantino tried too hard to make obvious in his storytelling to make Uma's character into a human (when I already gave him that concession, regardless of her cold-hearted nature as an assassin earlier because I already allowed for a wide range of roles humans can be simulataneously to different people in their lives).

Is it a heavy-handed way to make sure the audience understands the roles that Uma's character evolves in as the story unfolds? I think so. Just wasn't as impressed by this name/role evolution device. Sorry.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I thought the same thing! I usually don't agree much with your opinion about film, but in this case the planets must be aligned because I too was disappointed in this film and parts of it were very boring to me. IMO, the dialogue that some found interesting wasn't nearly that to me.






Crawdaddy

 

[Erik Pontius]

Rocksalt shotgun loads are an old farmer's trick to scare the crap out of kids monkeying around. Rocksalt would have just enough to maybe penetrate clothing and really sting, but not enough to kill someone, enough to remind you that you wouldn't want to get caught again.

I thought that scene was a little strange too, considering that she was able to look under the door and see him sitting right in front of it...then know that he wasn't asleep (he'd just sat back down from looking out the window).

I thought a few of the scenes could have been trimmed a bit. I do like a few of Tarantino's devices for flashbacks...such as the coffin scene to introduce the training, the Beatrix in the school room flashback. Only Tarantino would think to beep her name out in the first film in a half, for a gag in the second half of the second film.
I thought the style of the camera work with the crazy zooms and the style of dialog in the training scene was just hilarious...

 

[Pete-D]

I liked Kill Bill Vol. 1, but I think Vol.2 is utterly brilliant.

I saw it in a packed house too, and the audience really responded to it. The "pregnancy assassin" scene which some people here seemed not to like got big laughs.

Pei Mei steals the show though, no doubt about it. His character is so on the money it's great. Carradine as Bill was spot on too, I thought. Very cool. Even though there's less action in this one, I felt like the fight scenes had more power to them.

The fight against Daryl Hannah is going to be something that's talked about for a long time. I really did love Carradine's "Superman" speech as well.

There were a few moments that dragged a bit, but even with those trimmed down, there's no way to really make one movie out of this IMO. You would've missed way too much. This is definitely two movies, not one.

The only thing that stuck out as a bit of a sore thumb for me was the music playing as Beatrix and her daughter are watching the kung-fu movie, which continues on until she faces Bill in the living room. Tarintino is usually spot on with his choice of music, but that track just didn't work for me.

 

[Paul_Scott]

from the KBV1 review thread:



.

 

[JonZ]

"Why rocksalt" (Loved when se spit in his face and Budd spit the tabacco back)

Because Budd wanted her to suffer - he planned to bury her alive. I dont think he would ever have thought in a millions years shed get out of the coffin and above ground.

"The only thing i'm not buying in the movie is the scene where the Bride throws open buds door and runs in and gets shot."

It a trailer and thats probally the only way in.



Oh yea, Heckle & Jeckle on TV was also a highlight. H&J were a fav of my brother and mine. We both smiled when we saw it.

 

[Haggai]

She might have found out (from Sophie Fatale?) that Budd had descended a lot, basically becoming a drunk loser, since the Deadly Vipers disbanded. She might have thought that a quick charge into the trailer would have been enough to take him down before he could realize what was happening. Also, since he doesn't appear to see anything outside the window, you don't figure that he's sitting there with his gun in his lap. Sure as hell surprised me.

 

[Blu]

To me it still seems like there is some story left to tell that didn't make it into the movie. For example the relationship between Bill and Hatori Hanzo.

 

[DanaA]

I went to the last showing last night in my area and, yes, it was packed. We got there a half hour early and had a hard time finding two seats next to each other.

I have to say the crowd was great though. They laughed and "ooh"ed and "aah"ed at the appropriate times and, from the sounds of those close to us, all were having a great time, as did I.

Of course, there are lapses of reason during this film such as Uma opening the door to the trailer, but these things didn't bother me a bit. I consider the two parter to be the best of its kind in martial arts history. Unbelievable pacing, choreography, tips of the hat by Tarantino to others, and on and on. To me, this is a very special movie.

By the way, unlike many of the genre, I agree with anyone who commented that the acting was pretty darn solid.

 

[Jeremy Allin]

I was wondering this as well. Bill must really have done something to urk Hanzo that made him come out of a 28 year retirement in the blink of an eye.

 

[DanaA]

If I were to speculate, it would be because Hanzo was repulsed by the way his swords were being put to use. There's honorable killing and dishonorable killing.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I had to laugh when the end credits showed David Carradine was listed as "Snake Charmer".

Also, I would not put it past Tarantino to use "names" in the same way snakes shed their skins, so when the Bride takes on a name like Arlene, it's her way of shedding her Black Mamba skin.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I thought this was the whole point, not unlike the suitcase in Pulp. Who cares? It's delicious just knowing it must have been something pretty f'd up.

That's a lot of what I liked about KB1 and 2. My wife especially was full of questions that weren't directly related to the plotline, like what happened between Bud and Bill or how Bill came to recruit the various girls or what kind of relationship the girls had with each other, did they hate each other or respect or what?

I think that marks the writing as good, it gives spaces for us to fill in background and give the film more depth than it could ever have on its own. The key is leaving room for those spaces. Many films don't fill things out but also close off any room for those secondary questions.


Something funny to me about some of the complaints is the "slow pace". Did you see the scene where Uma goes to get the sword in KB1? It goes on forever. There were several moments in KB1 that took this same approach.

It's identical to the pacing at the opening of Good, Bad, Ugly, and that film didn't even use dialog. You just sit and wait, and wait, and wait, and then POW a guy comes leaping out of the front door, or a guy shoots a man down in front of his family. Or in Once Upon...West where you listen to the rhythmic sounds (meant to evoke a musical sound) of squeeky windmills and a fly buzzing just endless waiting for Harmonica to show up, and then BLAM 3 guys are shot down in an instant.

That's Kill Bill, especially Vol. 2. The first time I saw Once Upon...West I was a bit put off by this, but as I got used to it I began to relish the intentional languid pace that centered more on the tension proceeding the violence more than the violence.

It's like the filmmakers are expanding those moments and climbing into them to look around. They are unrealistially long, not unlike slow motion used during an action scene to elongate it. But this is because the film is not about the action scene, it is about the instants before the action. You are exploring what those moments say about life rather than what action says about it.

In a narrative culture we typically demand action and cause-effect, but not all cultures are focused on life in the same manner. To me this alternate focus makes a film like Once Upon...West and Kill Bill Vol 2 all the more interesting.

 

[Seth Paxton]

BTW, I didn't mention Carradine in my review, but he sure did kick ass. Uma was outstanding but Carradine was even better.

I wonder if the role could put him in the mix for a Supporting Actor nod. Older actor in a colorful supporting role can often attract some voter recognition and it might make them overlook it coming in an action film like KB2.

He certainly does get some good dialog moments to showcase his talent that is perfect for awards season.



Yeah, rocksalt, minimal serious damage, lots of pain (salt in wounds no less), perfect for slowing someone down but not killing them or doing any serious damage.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Well, not all the planets, Crawdaddy. I can usually tell which films I'll like from the ones Patman doesn't care for, and that trend continues here (although, as it happens, I saw the film before reading any comments on HTF). KB1 put me to sleep; KB2, which is about a half an hour longer, felt shorter, because it kept me alert throughout. It had the dialogue and the plot that volume 1 lacked -- incredibly mannered dialogue and plot, but then what other kind of goods can you expect from this particular shop?

M.

 

[CaseyL]

Did anyone else notice some of the spot gags, like the white "Bimbo" brand bread that Bill was making sandwiches out of?

 

[Parris]

Im actually surprised to see negative comments because I thought KB as a whole is simply brillant cinema. I watched KBV1 prior to viewing KBV2 and the pacing was fine to me. I expected more character development and V2 delivered. By the end of the movie I actually felt more for Bill than Beatrix because Bill did love her and she simply ran away and made a choice without his knowledge or input about how to raise their daughter. Bill shows later on that he was more than capable to raise their daughter in a safe environment and be a loving father. Knowing the type of person Bill is it shouldn't have surprised Beatrix that once Bill found her alive and pregnant marrying another man he would pop a cap in her ass. Beatrix is just as bad as Bill and actually relished being a killer. If Beatrix doesn't get pregnant she would have gladly keep on killing for Bill. I dont want to go on and on but I suggest those that didn't like V2 to go watch V1 again and then V2 right after.

 

[Quentin]

Absolutely agreed. And, I relish moments like the 'sword choosing scene' in Vol. 1.

But, it STILL should have and could have been one 3hr15min movie. Even 3hrs.

THAT movie would have been EPIC. It would have been Tarantino's best film, and Uma's performance would have garnered her an Oscar nom last year. Heck, the film would have gotten a few despite being a genre/revenge flick.

I thought Vol. 1 was an 8.5, and could have lost 20 minutes. But, from Hattori Hanzo to the end is brilliant. I thought Vol. 2 was a 9, but it could have lost 20+ minutes (and if you combine the films, you naturally lose some repetition about the wedding massacre). Together, this film would have been an 11 (thanx to Spinal Tap).

And, while I thought Carradine was passable - I LOVE Wells' suggestion - Warren Beatty would have knocked Bill out of the park. He doesn't have the genre/Kung Fu background, but he's miles beyond Carradine in acting ability and screen charisma.

 

[Haggai]

In response to something Seth Paxton said:

 

[Matt Stone]

I can't predict how good Beatty would have been in the role, but I thought Carradine was fantastic. He toed the line between super-villain, father-figure (to both BB and Beatrix), and significant-other (to all of the girls, mostly Beatrix) terrifically.

It's kind of like the Sean Bean vs Viggo for Aragorn casting. Seeing Bean in the role would have been amazing, but Viggo's performance is great in it's own right.

All in all, I wouldn't change a thing in relation to casting.

BTW, I agree with Seth and Quentin regarding the similar pacing to Once Upon in the West. I didn't have a problem with the pacing of either V1 or V2, but I can see where some stuff could have been edited out to cut running time. I agree that edited together into one ~3hr film would have made this QT's best work, but as it stands, I'm just happy to have them in any format.