*** Official KILL BILL: VOLUME 2 Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[richardWI]

to me the pacing also reminded me of Rio Bravo, QT said he admires that film for the long stretches of "hanging out" with the character moments. I'm sure if Rio Bravo were released today there would be internet debates over how many minutes of "filler" should be cut for it to be the classic it could have been.

 

[Mark-W]

CaseyL-
I did catch some of the packaging gags in the film, and one in particular, I loved in Vol.1 was the "Kaboom" breakfast cereal, which was exactly what it was!

I also loved how the motif of mother-daughter relationships played throughout, and every female in the Viper Gang, minus Elle, was shown either with a daughter, or show as a daughter, which to me is the most traumatic part of the anime in Vol 1 : showing the blood soak through the mattress and drip like rain on the daughter.

I also love how we do exspect so little of Bud because we are not only told he is a loser, but we are shown him being a loser in the scenes at the strip bar. When he takes down The Bride, it is surprising because he is the last person we'd exspect Beatrix to be captured by.

For those thinking W. Beatty would've been a better Bill, I cannot agree and it would be contrary to the intertextuality that Tarantino put into this film: We see Carridine, and we know we are supposed to remember him as Grasshopper as a little nod to his history. Just like the other nods throughout the film to martial arts cinema.

As for the Hanzon-Bill backstory. I don't think we need it, and like the whisper in Lost in Translation, for Tarantino to state some horrific thing that Bill did to piss off Hanzo would diminish it as a plot point. With Carradine being so, frankly, likeable in his scenes, we have to feel that Beatrix is doing the right thing when she takes him out. The comments regarding Hanzo and Bill's relationship, and the comments of Bud (saying that Bill brings out the kind of anger/resentment in people that would result in Hanzo coming out of retirement), are what we need when the Snake Charmer finally appears, well, so charming.

We like Bill: he is sweet to B.B., smart, and has great taste in decor, and yet we know he has done horrendous things, not only to Beatrix, but to others as well. When he is kiled, it has to feel totally deserved.

 

[Gary->dee]

FYI: Bimbo bread is actually a real product.


Not sure about Kaboom cereal though.

 

[josh4040]

I read that there is going to be an animated prequel to kill bill which deals with Hanzo and Pei Mei. Also did anyone else think that Bill was dressed like Han Solo? All the way down to a gun that looked a lot like a blaster.

 

[Robert Crawford]

After a second viewing today, I'm going to revised my opinion of this film and say I enjoyed it a lot more after seeing it again. So I guess the planets weren't aligned after all. Anyhow, the film pacing this time around didn't appear as slow as it was yesterday. Overall, after thinking about the film overnight and seeing it again, I'm more accepting of this film's effort than I was last night. Anyhow, I hope one day, both films are edited together to see if my opinion changes further about whether it was best to have one long film or two shorter films.




Crawdaddy

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The most excruciating scequence was by far from the introduction of their daughter through Bill shooting at her. For that brief span, it's another innocent child being stripped of a decent father.

As for his demise, it was the only appropriate one. If she had sliced-and-diced him, that would shadow her relationship with her daughter. Still might, but atleast now Bill died of a heart attack, in a matter of speaking.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I wouldn't be surprised to like this film on a second viewing now that I know where the bits that didn't do much for me end up. Maybe I'll see it again tomorrow if I have time.

I do think that by seeing the first film right before seeing vol. 2 colored my viewing experience and expectations.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Can we safely assume that Beatrix was one of Pai Mei's favorite students since he taught her that certain technique because Bill previously stated in the film that he doesn't teach that Kung-fu move to anybody?





Crawdaddy

 

[Steve Felix]

I initially felt that way too, but the fact that she's dispatching people with a sword and not a sniper rifle makes me think that her methods are about more than simply getting the job done. She was equally direct in taking on Vernita and O-Ren. (Of course, in all cases she scoped the situation out to a degree before going in.) Perhaps her misjudgment was that Budd would still have the self-esteem to be willing to engage in proper combat.

I agree with Seth Paxton that this movie is (mostly) Leone while the first was everything else. That makes it less accessible but certainly not inferior. I love that Leone-esque close up of Thurman looking down on Budd's trailer with the final reprisal of the "Ironside" theme... there's something genius about the melding of these elements. That shot demands a reference quality transfer, by the way.

If Tarantino decided to give himself a "Quentin Cinema Tarantino" credit a la Godard, I wouldn't complain. After Kill Bill, I think he's earned it.

 

[Evan.K]

something i found interesting is that beatrix never really killed anyone in this one...

elle is just blind

and bud died from a snake bite

bill should have called someone for a wheelchair...

 

[Matt Stone]

Yep

 

[BarryS]

Does anyone know if the "Five Pressure Point Exploding Heart Technique" is a real move or a Tarantino fabrication? I would assume the latter.

 

[Gregg Shiu]

My only complaint would be that after using that machete of a knife to cut the crust off the sandwiches, David Carradine used it in the mayonaise jar, effectively contaminating it. On another note, does anyone know what happened to the part with Michael Jai White? I remember the final trailer and pictures from many months ago showing Bill in a kung-fu suit taking on people. Though I don't mind how it was absent from the film, I was kinda shocked they didn't want to show a quick glimpse of what a badass Bill must've been.

 

[Evan.K]

I also found it interesting that Beatrix used a different Pai Mei techinique for each encounter.

The close punch to break out of the coffin.

The eye pull.

And the Five Pressure Point Exploding Heart Technique.

It seems to me that a close punch should've be easier to execute then the five pressure point thing.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Interesting note Evan on the various techniques she had to use.

Yeah, clearly Uma was not vicious or motivated by hate, she was purely a killer. She enjoys the work but is far less emotional about it, which is why Pai Mei would have liked her. She was able to stay more humble than any other student. Both Elle and Bill were shown to anger Pai Mei, and we can assume it was because they were both arrogant.

Uma knows she is the best, yet she was willing to fully submit to Pai Mei, and that's where the respect came from. Knowing that she completed the training and was taught the most sacred move serves to verify Uma's true motivation to master the art of killing simply as an art. Pai Mei followed a code based on respect, not morals, and obviously Uma did too. Bill and Elle clearly did not, simply by the actions and dialog we see, although Bill was more respectful than Elle.

Uma was a force of nature, she killed like the Black Mamba killed, simply because that's what she was. Elle and Bill had some sense of cruelty to their actions, and certainly so did Bud and O-Ren. However I do think O-Ren came the closest to following the code of respect - just consider her apology to Uma in their showdown after Uma is able to strike her.


Since Uma was the Black Mamba she sort of did kill both Bud and very likely Elle (after all QT does give us the reminder that the snake is still about just in case we forgot even if he also does show the ? about her outcome).


Yeah, I think Bud suprised Uma because he took the low road so to speak, especially since he was a sword guy. And I also think its important to her to kill in person rather than remotely. Certainly she could have sniped or bombed these people, although then again she also needed to question them on how to get to Bill.


The first time I watched OUaTitW I thought Leone was being too indulgent. Heck, the first time I saw KB1 I thought QT was being too indulgent. But as I adjusted to both I was able to shift into a mindset more appropriate for the work. I'm not trying to defend QT for the sake of it, and in fact it took time for me to warm up to KB1 enough for him to earn my full respect again (I was lukewarm to Jackie Brown so at first KB1 marked a slipping to me).

I really do think these films are more about the tension moments than the payoff moments.

 

[Parris]

Since we know that Bill took both Beatrix and Elle to train with Pai Mei, did he also do the same with Budd, Vernita, and Oren??

Also Budd's nickname of sidewinder fits because he did take the low road with Beatrix since he did have his Hanzo sword afterall, he could have easily fought her face to face but instead decided to trick and make her suffer.

 

[Gary->dee]

Just got back from seeing it. As others have pointed out, a much different movie in terms of pacing than the Vol.1. Actually I think Vol.2 is much more a Quentin Tarantino movie, with its excessive dialogue, compared to the first movie, which is very unlike QT in terms of constant action and little dialogue.

I loved the fact that BB wanted to watch Shogun Assassin before going to bed and her and Beatrix were actually watching it(ok heard but not seen). That brought a big chuckle and smile to my face. Very apropos. The stand-out chapter to me is "Elle and I", it was simply a kick-ass, very witty chapter. It seemed like the fight between Elle and Beatrix was the highlight of the entire movie.

I won't see it again in the theater and I'm sure I'll appreciate it more once it hits DVD. I was satisfied with it, not disappointed.

 

[Peter Kim]

Carradine was the perfect choice in the story that Tarantino told.

In the flashback where Bill was telling the campfire story to Beatrix, the one where Pai Mei kills all 60 Shaolin priests...and then ultimately, Beatrix kills Carradine, who plays Shaolin in Kung Fu. All Shaolin are killed.

Tarantino pays homage to Pai Mei by letting him get the last laugh, when both Elle & Bill are taken down by signature Pai Mei moves.

 

[Haggai]

Heh, I forgot to mention the significance of the title "Elle and I" in any earlier posts, which is obvious once you get to the end of the fight between them.

 

[Sean Moon]

Even if Elle didnt get bitten by the black mamba she would still die. Either by bleeding, if she was much at all, and if not there are many other ways to die. She is blind, so she wouldnt be able to see anything in the trailer, like food or anything. And if she got outside, shes in the desert, and who knows how a blind woman would cross the desert alive? I think its cooler that she left Elle there to suffer. And was my audience the only one shocked by the eye gouging to elle? That moment when Beatrix did that, everyone gasped and jumped, then followed by laughter and clapping in the theater. Definitely a moment made even better by a good audience.